What Happens When A Type Two Diabetic Follows Peat Ideas And Eats A Lot Of Sugar

[chispas]

This is a very interesting thread. I changed some of my routines a couple of weeks ago and started eating dates and eggs for breakfast, instead of juice and milk. After a couple of days, I could no longer tolerate coffee, and was have anxiety attacks and high adrenaline and dizziness. I couldn't figure out why. It got so bad, I started to reluctantly gravitate back to my old ways - juice and milk. I was enjoying the novelty of the new morning routine, but anyways...Although I felt a bit better - anxiety disappeared with juice and milk - I still didn't feel "good". I remembered niacinamide, and started taking 500mg each morning, then increased it to 1g each day. Since doing that, I have felt great, and no anxiety. I am back to drinking strong coffee!

 

[chispas]

Also, by juice I mean 500ml with a half teaspoon of salt. By milk, I mean full fat milk with sugar and casein and glycine. In case these details help anyone.

 

[raypeatclips]

This is a very interesting thread. I changed some of my routines a couple of weeks ago and started eating dates and eggs for breakfast, instead of juice and milk. After a couple of days, I could no longer tolerate coffee, and was have anxiety attacks and high adrenaline and dizziness. I couldn't figure out why. It got so bad, I started to reluctantly gravitate back to my old ways - juice and milk. I was enjoying the novelty of the new morning routine, but anyways...Although I felt a bit better - anxiety disappeared with juice and milk - I still didn't feel "good". I remembered niacinamide, and started taking 500mg each morning, then increased it to 1g each day. Since doing that, I have felt great, and no anxiety. I am back to drinking strong coffee!

Less salt from dates and milk = adrenaline not controlled? Dates irritating your gut? Niacinamide reduces adrenaline so making you feel better?

 

[chispas]

Less salt from dates and milk = adrenaline not controlled? Dates irritating your gut? Niacinamide reduces adrenaline so making you feel better?

I don't think the dates I'm eating have much salt - they are medjool. If they were irritating to my gut, I would have experienced it by now, having eaten five a day for the last year or more. I'm pretty quick to notice upset gut, because since having a Peat-esque diet, my digestion is very good.

I do have an adrenaline problem though. Without salt I am up the creek without a paddle. I also notice calcium has a calming effect.

I suppose my original hypothesis was: the dates will provide the sugar to offset digestion of the egg protein. All I thought I needed was a bit of salt on the eggs, and I would hypothetically avoid an adrenaline rush. This didn't work at all however. I think a factor I overlooked could have been that the medjool date fibre is so slow at breaking down, that the body cannot metabolise the sugar very fast at all. By the time I had eaten the eggs, I would have low blood sugar despite ~100g carbs from the dates.

 

[TibRex]

Would you have any information how they can do this safely?

Thank You

Answer: Don't or never cook your food in oil, whether saturated or unsaturated. Boiling is fine but steaming is the best [both without added oil, that is]. You can add a tbsp of [saturated] coconut oil after the food's cooked. Since most food sold in restaurants, etc use cooking oil, it's best to eat home cooked food, until your diabetic condition is fully controlled. It's difficult at first, but I've lost quite a lot of abdominal fat doing all that for the past 6 months. FBG has dropped a little, and I dearly hope the glucose level will drop to normal but that will take time. As Peat has said, it takes unsaturated oil 4 yrs to exit the system... whew!

 

[ecstatichamster]

Welcome here @TibRex

Are you diagnosed diabetic?

 

[TibRex]

I think there are two requisites. One is insulin resistance which is brought on by chronically high cortisol levels and constant free fatty acids. Oxidative phosphorylation is not happening, but glycolysis and lipolysis are the energy methods the mitochondria are using. Lots of lactic acid stimulates breathing and hyperventilation creating what Ray calls "pseudohypoxia".

You summed it up neatly, a la RP, ecstatichamster! Thanks.

I've worked with diabetics and they all have very low control pauses. Indicating hypoxia going on, very low oxygen levels reaching tissues, very low CO2.

Could you explain what "control pauses" is? Do you mean shallow breathing? I am aware that diabetics have this symptom of defective left-nostril breathing while asthmatics have the opposite symptom - defective right-nostril breathing. Defective left-nostril breathing results in excessive heat in the body - and the reverse for asthmatics.

Then the fragile Islets of Langherhans get killed eventually and the result is full on type 2 diabetes requiring insulin. These beta cells are fragile anyway, and easily destroyed, just as Ray has pointed out the thymus is easily shrunk down to almost nothing.

I have no idea what comes first in all this or what causes it, but it seems to me that high fat and high sugar meals again and again can cause it in susceptible individuals, maybe when lots of the fat is PUFA.

I believe that PUFA is causative and hope that my attempts at reversing it by going on a negligible PUFA diet, which I've been doing for the past six months**, will succeed. My abdominal fat [subcutaneous fat, I believe] has gone down a lot but my fasting BG has not. It went up quite a lot, actually. Given that PUFA will take up to 4 yrs to exit the system, according to RP, I'll continue with the experiment. According to diabetic research, visceral fat esp that around the abdomen is a major cause of insulin resistance and it needs to be removed before one sees positive results. Hopefully, this will happen as I continue - staving off both saturated and unsaturated fats through getting rid of not only the subcutaneous, but also the visceral, fat eventually.

** = not eating out; food cooked at home - food cooked with zero oil.

I don't think people eating fat<10% of caloric intake get diabetes much.

That' brings me back to the original post. If we keep fat very low, and give a diabetic high sugar, will they recover?

Doctors go by H2A1C. And they are very religious about acute blood sugar control This is the belief that AGEs are the problem, that sugar combines with protein to form toxic glycation end products that lead to neuropathy and blindness and eventual amputation.

According to RP, the diabetic complications you mentioned here - AGEs, retinopathy ... are the unfortunate results of ingesting unsaturated FAs which eventually cause capillary leakage, etc. Omega 3 seems to be the worst of the lot.

Those who are in danger of neuropathic severities like imminent amputation should apply sea cucumber extracts (produced in Malaysia under the local name of "Gamat") to the affected areas as they have been proven to work (check out the many youtube videos on this). Both OPAL/OPLE (Oil Palm Leaf Extract) and astaxanthin can ameliorate diabetic complications involving the kidney, liver, eyes and blood circulation. The former as far as I know has not yet entered the market though experimental research have yielded promising results to date.

I don't really believe this. And I see a lot of the medications being very toxic and probably creating a lot of diabetic symptoms.

 

[TibRex]

Welcome here @TibRex

Are you diagnosed diabetic?

Yes, I signed on as member a few days ago. Have been diabetic for at least 20 yrs
Am still on oral medication (metformin) for T2DM , but it seems to have become less and less effective . Taking this or some other herbal alternative is only a temporary fix I've learnt. Thank God, I've found RP's literature + this RP forum to boot - at least I now have a proper scientific model to fall and go on, plus a systemic fix, though the temporary fixes have their place too :).

 

[Mary Pruter]

My sugar has been over 400+ for 2 weeks now.

 

[Mary Pruter]

I think I'm on the verge of death!

 

[ecstatichamster]

what's your eating these days
@Mary Pruter

 

[Mary Pruter]

Fruit, berries (mostly blueberries, cuties, grapefruit, breakfast is 2 strips of bacon (organic) 2 eggs (free range) 1 small purple potato. Sometimes a Hershey bar and a glass of fat free milk (organic) double boiled chicken with fresh tomatoes (organic) and a little rice. Bone in beef or lamb. Coke.

 

[Mary Pruter]

Still only caregiver my Mom has. 91 with dementia. Doing the same for her. She was much better but became very stressed and got shingles.

 

[James IV]

Ray Peat =/= lots of sugar.
Ray Peat = sufficient sugar.

I wager people would feel a lot better if they truly understood this. I also think many folks that think they have poor glycogen storage and hypoglycemia would be supprised if they started monitoring their blood glucose.

 

[Mary Pruter]

Well, I eat mostly fruit and I do have coffee with sugar in it. I'm sure I'm getting plenty of sugar.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Fruit, berries (mostly blueberries, cuties, grapefruit, breakfast is 2 strips of bacon (organic) 2 eggs (free range) 1 small purple potato. Sometimes a Hershey bar and a glass of fat free milk (organic) double boiled chicken with fresh tomatoes (organic) and a little rice. Bone in beef or lamb. Coke.

a lot of success has been had by very low fat diets for diabetes. Have you tried cutting back the fat and increasing the carbs? Quality juice instead of Coke has potassium in it and other good stuff. Two thoughts. I'd love to see someone here get rid of diabetes with that diet as it has worked for a lot of people I've read about on other forums.

Seems to take about 3 weeks but the body learns to use sugar again.

 

[Mary Pruter]

I do drink fresh squeezed grapefruit juice but I'm not sure how much is safe! I Love it and could drink, was drinking, 2 14 oz bottles a day. I cut back because I found out it takes about 10 to 15 grapefruits to make that 14 oz bottle and I worried that it was too much. I don't eat a lot of fat. I cook my meat well and rid it of drippings.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I do drink fresh squeezed grapefruit juice but I'm not sure how much is safe! I Love it and could drink, was drinking, 2 14 oz bottles a day. I cut back because I found out it takes about 10 to 15 grapefruits to make that 14 oz bottle and I worried that it was too much. I don't eat a lot of fat. I cook my meat well and rid it of drippings.

yeah, but I'm talking about

potatoes
a few eggs without fat
rice with a no fat sauce
extremely lean beef
collagen

fat would be 5% of calories. That is probably what it may take to turn things around.

Also, I would skip grapefruit juice entirely. Ray has said that it is not good.
Grapefruit, Flavonoids, Detoxification, and Estrogen – Functional Performance Systems (FPS)

or example, the flavonoids, naringenin, quercetin and kaempherol (kaempherol is an antioxidant, a phytoestrogen, and a mutagen) modify the metabolism of estradiol, causing increased bioavailability of both estrone and estradiol. (W. Schubert, et al., “Inhibition of 17-beta-estradiol metabolism by grapefruit juice in ovariectomized women,” Maturitas (Ireland) 30(2-3), 155-163, 1994.) -Ray Peat, PhD

 

[Mary Pruter]

Hmmm. See, that's what I don't understand, I need to eat grapefruit, as someone in the forum has told me, but 2 oz of the juice is not good???

 

[Xisca]

it's a great question. Buteyko uses a "control pause." Which is very effective actually. Another way is to use a pulse oximeter that measures the oxygen levels of blood via color, and this correlates somewhat I suppose. I use control pause.

I went up a CP of 30 easily, then had focal infection problem, now around 20, and still a lot of pain from lactic acid, and I would like my cell to aerobically burn glucose! I am a fat burner, very lean all my life. High glucose but not diabetic.
More sugar than fat = burning muscle with very little effort.