How DOES One Drink Coffee Without Having It Mess With GABA/glutamate

AretnaP

Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2017
Messages
180
Caffeine does have the ability to inhibit GABA, at least in some situations.

For example: I have mild tourettes syndrome (most likely caused by nerve excitotoxicity), I don't yell out foul language but instead usually just have a few specific muscles that contract without intent.

This gets a little worse after caffeine, how can I keep this effect as minimal as possible?
 

sladerunner69

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
3,307
Age
31
Location
Los Angeles
Yes the gelatin most of us add to our coffee acts as gaba agaonist. As does niacinimide, pregenelone, progesterone, taurine, and snything that is a 5ar promoter.
 

Frankdee20

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
3,772
Location
Sun Coast, USA
Yes the gelatin most of us add to our coffee acts as gaba agaonist. As does niacinimide, pregenelone, progesterone, taurine, and snything that is a 5ar promoter.

Pregnenalone is a GABA antagonist and NMDA agonist. It will make anxiety worse
 

milk

Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2015
Messages
341
I've probably been drinking more coffee than is good for me for most of my life. It's probably related to my GABA issues.

I went without coffee a few days ago and I felt very good! Anxiety was gone. But I was craving it, I'm too used to drinking it. I'll try to taper off in the next days.
 

sladerunner69

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
3,307
Age
31
Location
Los Angeles
Pregnenalone is a GABA antagonist and NMDA agonist. It will make anxiety worse

Pregnenelone certainly isn't- most of it converts to progesterone which will then convert through 5ar to steroids which are the strongest known GABA agonists.

I've probably been drinking more coffee than is good for me for most of my life. It's probably related to my GABA issues.

I went without coffee a few days ago and I felt very good! Anxiety was gone. But I was craving it, I'm too used to drinking it. I'll try to taper off in the next days.

Coffee upregulates the GABA receptor. The common most complained about side effect of caffiene is anxiety, I believe that means you have liver issues. I used to get a lot of anxiety when drinking it as well, but the anti-serotonin effects and energy were more beneficial t me in the long term.
 

Frankdee20

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
3,772
Location
Sun Coast, USA
Pregnenelone certainly isn't- most of it converts to progesterone which will then convert through 5ar to steroids which are the strongest known GABA agonists.



Coffee upregulates the GABA receptor. The common most complained about side effect of caffiene is anxiety, I believe that means you have liver issues. I used to get a lot of anxiety when drinking it as well, but the anti-serotonin effects and energy were more beneficial t me in the long term.


Regarding Pregnenalone, I believe the Progesterone conversion is dose dependent. It certainly is stimulating and can cause insomnia in many. Likely via Acetylcholine increase and GABA antagonism, of itself.
 

sladerunner69

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
3,307
Age
31
Location
Los Angeles
Regarding Pregnenalone, I believe the Progesterone conversion is dose dependent. It certainly is stimulating and can cause insomnia in many. Likely via Acetylcholine increase and GABA antagonism, of itself.

Possibly, however empirically speaking I have had phenomenal results with pregenenlone. The only compaint would be a "spaced" out feeling that I also can get from progesterone, coffee, and 5dhp which are acknowledged as having strong GABA effects.
 

Frankdee20

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
3,772
Location
Sun Coast, USA
Possibly, however empirically speaking I have had phenomenal results with pregenenlone. The only compaint would be a "spaced" out feeling that I also can get from progesterone, coffee, and 5dhp which are acknowledged as having strong GABA effects.


At what dose ? I'm not sure if my 10 mg ingestion does anything for boosting Progesterone
 

Frankdee20

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
3,772
Location
Sun Coast, USA
Pregnenelone certainly isn't- most of it converts to progesterone which will then convert through 5ar to steroids which are the strongest known GABA agonists.



Coffee upregulates the GABA receptor. The common most complained about side effect of caffiene is anxiety, I believe that means you have liver issues. I used to get a lot of anxiety when drinking it as well, but the anti-serotonin effects and energy were more beneficial t me in the long term.

Coffee upregulates GABA via its constant antagonism, so chronic use, that's tolerable will help, yes.
 

sladerunner69

Member
Joined
May 24, 2013
Messages
3,307
Age
31
Location
Los Angeles
Coffee upregulates GABA via its constant antagonism, so chronic use, that's tolerable will help, yes.

Wait so caffiene antagonizes GABA release? Iw as under the impression it simultaneously upregulated the GABA receptor while still increasing GABA release. This could explain why I tend to feel monotonous/robotic/mechanistic while drinking lots of coffee. Helpful for productivity but after 4-5cups I can feel bland stale, emotionless until I take a 20 minute power nap, I wake up feeling less wired and a little groggy, but with more emotions and normal feelings towards others and the world around me. Does that make any kind of sense?
 

Frankdee20

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
3,772
Location
Sun Coast, USA
Coffee has actions primarily on Adenosine receptors, blocking its effect, fooling the brain into thinking it doesn't need sleep. Upregulation of adenosine receptors occurs with prolonged use, as an adaptive response. As far as GABA, caffeine increases receptors, but blocks its release.
 

mrsuomi

Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
Messages
69
Coffee has actions primarily on Adenosine receptors, blocking its effect, fooling the brain into thinking it doesn't need sleep. Upregulation of adenosine receptors occurs with prolonged use, as an adaptive response. As far as GABA, caffeine increases receptors, but blocks its release.

Caffeine and cannabis generally increased the levels of GABA significantly (Fig. (Fig.1).1). Both of them also caused increases at the higher doses with the GABA levels higher when cannabis was administered. What is basically observed here is that the administration of these 2 psychoactive agents caused increases in the levels of GABA in all the treated groups relative to the untreated control. The implications of this would only be adequately interpreted in light of the other parameters. Caffeine reportedly reduced GABA receptor interaction sites [21] and altered their density [22]. While these previous reports gave information on the molecular effects of caffeine on GABA receptors, the current findings show the implications on the quantities and activities of the neurotransmitter. Generally, increase in GABA is associated with increased sleepiness and reduced anxiety, alertness, and memory-related functions [23]; however, reduction in receptors interacting sites might nullify or reduce the manifestation of such effects as observed in this investigation.
 

Collden

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
630
Acute caffeine intake inhibits GABA, the effect is opposite that of alcohol. Chronic caffeine intake induces a counter-regulatory increase in GABA receptor sensitivity and maybe also increased basal secretion.

Overdosing on caffeine can cause transmarginal inhibition in certain contexts which might work by increasing GABA, but this is not a beneficial response but rather the brains emergency defense against overwhelming excitation.

Ergo, appropriate doses of caffeine will always increase glutamate, the beneficial mental effects (stress reduction/tolerance) from long-term use comes from how your brain adapts to chronically elevated glutamate levels and becomes more tolerant to excitation. It is contrary to how alcoholism or benzo use screws up your brain by the constant GABA-ergic stimulus that makes your brain intolerant of excitatory (high glutamate) states.

So just be mindful and learn to live with the enhanced excitatory state caffeine puts you in, and do not overdo it to the point where you feel foggy or spaced out.
 

Frankdee20

Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
3,772
Location
Sun Coast, USA
I must have a unique adaptation going on whereby I consume coffee on a regular basis at about 3-4 cups per day, but also consume alcohol regularly.
 

Sativa

Member
Joined
May 17, 2018
Messages
400
This gets a little worse after caffeine, how can I keep this effect as minimal as possible?
you could try theanine - It has been found to inhibit the excitatory effects of caffeine.
"If about eight times as much theanine than caffeine is given (on a per milligram basis), the effect of caffeine is completely blunted"
It also increases dopamine levels and antagonizes glutamate receptors = neuroprotective effect.
Also increases release of BNDF and GDNF - beneficial neurotrophic factors
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom