Zinc Supplements - Clarification On Ray's Comment

[Amazoniac]

Regarding cadmium, I have trouble deciding how to balance it since it's easy for it to be in food too. For example, oysters love to concentrate it.

Ingesting Plenty Of Calcium Protects Against Cadmium Absorption And Accumulation

 

[Ella]

I never see cadmium accumulation in those individuals that drink lots of milk eat lots cheese, eating tonnes of seafood. Our seafood/oysters are top notch though. I see high cadmium in those individuals that think milk is cow puss and avoid it like the plague and are scared of seafood because of the mercury. They seem to be high in lead, cadmium and extremely low in their alkaline minerals especially calcium. A good diet protects against toxins.

 

[squanch]

I would stay away from asian imports. Australian oysters are the best and cleanest your can get. We are really spoilt in Australia as our quality is hard to beat. Contact the wholesalers at the following link and inquire if they are available in your country.

http://australiasoystercoast.com/export-to-the-world/

Thanks Ella, I'll see if I can find anything.
I did find some New Zealand frozen oysters at some point. They where about the same price as fresh oysters though.

 

[Amazoniac]

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.nu.03.070183.001401?journalCode=nutr

"[..]zinc transport by brush border vesicles of rat intestine was not increased by reduced glutathione, picolinate, or citrate (137). Collectively, these data suggest that these substances have no special relationship to zinc uptake."

"Evans & Johnson identified picolinic acid, a metabolite of tryptophan metabolism, as the low molecular weight ligand in human milk that binds most of the zinc (60). They obtained evidence with intact animal models suggesting picolinic acid increases zinc absorption (61). However, when tested in a variety of systems, picolinic acid was found to be without an effect (72, 102, 104, 137, 147)."

"May et al proposed, through a computer simulation of the interactions between Zn2+ and the low molecular weight ligands in milk, that at low picolinate concentrations this ligand binds most of the zinc (130). However, it is unlikely that picolinic acid is present in milk in very high concentrations since it is cytotoxic (70)."

"Giroux & Prakash evaluated a variety of zinc-ligand mixtures for an effect on absorption using an increase in serum zinc as an index. Lysine, cysteine, and glycine had some effect (79). Protein restriction reduces zinc absorption but high dietary protein appears to increase it (24,36,182,202), further suggesting a link between amino acids as ligands for zinc in the intestinal lumen."

"Equally relevant to synthesis of this physiological ligand ["Metallothionein is a metal binding ligand that appears to be involved in the metabolism of both copper and zinc."] is degradation. We established that metallothionein is degraded in relationship to the metal bound. Zinc metallothionein is degraded with a t[1/2] of 18-20 hours (67). Zinc seems to leave the protein during proteolysis. In contrast, cadmium metallothionein is degraded more slowly. The protein moiety has a t[1/2] of 3.7 days, but cadmium seems to be rebound to nascent polypeptides yielding an exceedingly long t[1/2] (68). Thus when metallothionein is degraded, zinc is available for cellular efflux while cadmium is retained via rebinding to nascent apoprotein. Binding affinity for cadmium is greater than zinc (106)."

--
https://www.nap.edu/read/10026/chapter/14#489

"Zinc binds tenaciously to proteins at near neutral pH. Consequently, the amount of protein in the diet is a factor contributing to the efficiency of zinc absorption. As protein digestion proceeds, zinc becomes more accessible for zinc transport mechanisms of intestinal cells. The relative abundance of zinc as small molecular weight complexes of low binding affinity enhances the process. Small changes in protein digestion may produce significant changes in zinc absorption (Sandstrom and Lonnerdal, 1989). These changes in absorption may explain the correlation between zinc deficiency symptoms and certain malabsorption disorders (Cousins, 1996). The markedly greater bioavailability of zinc from human milk than from cow’s milk is an example of how protein digestibility, which is much lower in casein-rich cow’s milk than in human milk, influences zinc absorption (Roth and Kirchgessner, 1985). In general, zinc absorption from a diet high in animal protein will be greater than from a diet rich in proteins of plant origin such as soy (King and Keen, 1999)."

"A metabolite of tryptophan metabolism, picolinic acid has a high metal binding affinity. Picolinate complexes of zinc and chromium are not formed in nature in appreciable amounts, but are sold commercially as dietary supplements. Zinc picolinate as a zinc source for humans has not received extensive investigation. In an animal model, picolinic acid supplementation promoted negative zinc balance (Seal and Heaton, 1985), presumably by promoting urinary excretion."

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Absorption and metabolism of oral zinc gluconate in humans in fasting state, during, and after a meal

"[..]the element may cause slight gastrointestinal disturbances in some subjects who would therefore be inclined to take it with some food or after a meal (3,5)."

Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki​

"[..]perturbation is confirmed by the significant decrease in the Cmax [maximum concentration] during the meal, but with an almost complete recovery 2 h after food intake. More surprising is the rather moderate effect on the calculated AUC [-28%], which is as already indicated the best indicator of zinc bioavailability."

--
@Dan Wich @haidut @healthnatura

 

[Dan W]

Amazoniac, I think you've entered that metabolic zone where you produce more information than I can ever keep up with. Say hi to Haidut while you're in there.

Protein restriction reduces zinc absorption but high dietary protein appears to increase it

I spent way too much time trying to wrap my head around this study, so here's my attempt to visually summarize it:

 

[lvysaur]

I never see cadmium accumulation in those individuals that drink lots of milk eat lots cheese, eating tonnes of seafood. Our seafood/oysters are top notch though. I see high cadmium in those individuals that think milk is cow puss and avoid it like the plague and are scared of seafood because of the mercury. They seem to be high in lead, cadmium and extremely low in their alkaline minerals especially calcium.

How do you know this?

 

[Ella]

How do you know this?

I do a lot testing; serum, RBC, hair and urine etc. I've seen health disasters with zinc supplementation, specifically in those poor unfortunate individuals placed on those popular methylation protocols being diagnosed as poor methylators. I have to go to great lengths to prove to them that they are being harmed by the zinc. They are convinced that if I take away their zinc they will become suicidal or worse. The suggestion of including seafoods like oysters or shellfish or cow puss just about sends them over the edge. Suggest more fruit and then they have nightmares about the fructose and sugar. The whole situation would be hysterical if it was not so tragic.

Easter soon. I am serving oysters, marinated baby octopus, and pineapple style calamari with lots of other yummy foods. I think I am going to get a fair amount of zinc this Sunday.

 

[lvysaur]

I do a lot testing; serum, RBC, hair and urine etc.

So you're a health consultant? What type of zinc supplementation tends to have the worst effects? And where do you get your "good oysters/seafood" from?

 

[Amazoniac]

Absorption and metabolism of oral zinc gluconate in humans in fasting state, during, and after a meal

"[..]the element may cause slight gastrointestinal disturbances in some subjects who would therefore be inclined to take it with some food or after a meal (3,5)."

Herb Doctors - Blood Pressure Regulation, Heart Failure, and Muscle Atrophy

taking a supplement of free metal – iron, zinc or copper in the form of a free metal – it can interact with nutrients in your digestive system and oxidize them

--
Modern nutrition in health and disease (978-1-60547-461-8)
"Zinc absorption is most efficient from aqueous sources in the absence of food. With intakes lower than 5 mg, absorption is close to 100% when zinc is consumed in an aqueous solution in the fasting state (46). When zinc is ingested with food, the amount absorbed can vary from 5% to more than 50%, depending on the amount of zinc and phytate in the diet (44). Modeling studies showed that the maximal amount of zinc absorbed per day is approximately 7 mg if the diet is low in phytate and if zinc intakes are distributed throughout the day."

"Supplemental or dietary calcium without phytate has little to no effect on zinc absorption at an adequate level of intake."

"[..]micronutrient supplements containing zinc given to Vietnamese infants either daily or weekly improved growth similarly in both groups (93)."

 

[Gl;itch.e]

"Supplemental or dietary calcium without phytate has little to no effect on zinc absorption at an adequate level of intake."

I like this quote Amazoniac. I was always a little worried I wouldn't be getting much zinc with my high calcium intake.

 

[tara]

I've seen health disasters with zinc supplementation

Hi Ella,
I love oysters, and would happily eat a dozen a week if I could afford them and if they were always available, but sadly not the case here and now.
In the mean time, I seem to have resolved one or two very annoying issues in the last year or two with a very small amount of supplemental zinc (20mg zinc as picolinate once a week). Do you have reason to think this could be doing me more harm than good?

 

[Such_Saturation]

you should never eat them raw, always cooked

No thanks lol

 

[Amazoniac]

https://www.researchgate.net/public...he_risks_and_benefits_of_zinc_supplementation

 

[Note]

Any other good source of zinc besides oyester and seafoods?

 

[Nighteyes]

Any other good source of zinc besides oyester and seafoods?

Beef and oats :)

 

[Note]

Beef and oats :)

Mushrooms, egg yolk, chocolate as well, not sure how much though.

 

[Amazoniac]

Simple Copper Salts Are A Powerful Alternative To Antibiotics
https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/46436/PDF (criticized before, check previous page)
Large Amounts of Picolinic Acid Are Lethal but Small Amounts Increase the Conversion of Tryptophan-Nicotinamide in Rats
http://www.nrjournal.com/article/S0271-5317(88)80007-1/pdf
The Physiological Action of Picolinic Acid in the Human Brain
https://www.researchgate.net/public...e_on_cisplatin-induced_nephrotoxicity_in_rats

 

[Amazoniac]

The tryptophan metabolite picolinic acid suppresses proliferation and metabolic activity of CD4+ T cells and inhibits c-Myc activation

 

[Amazoniac]

http://www.traceelements.com/Docs/The Nutritional Relationships of Selenium.pdf

More recent investigations have confirmed the zinc-selenium antagonism.21

 

[Amazoniac]

If you ever experience a mild burning sensation from zinc supplements and for some reason need to supplement it, a small amount of selenium along should help if not take care of it completely. Increased manganese intake throughout the day, as our buyer mentioned, can help as well.
Travisord, if you happen to read this, there's some information about picolinic acid on the previous posts.