MPB Experimental Treatments

[JDreamer]

There's a guy by the name of Sage1 over on the Immortal Hair forums and he has a thread titled "My green tea,coconut topical and green juicing progress"

He was easily a diffused NW3 when he started 8-10 months or so ago. His wife originally noticed he was regrowing hair after he start juicing so he decided to make a topical using a variety of fresh leaves (coriander/rosemary/nettle) along with green tea and coconut oil. He would make a paste, cover his scalp in it, then eventually wash it off.

The regimen has been simplified quite a bit. Now he only mashes together Coriander/Rosemary with green tea with a mortar and pestle. Then he puts the compost into a container, adds a little water which it sits in for a bit, and then he strains the liquid out. Finally he massages the juice into his scalp. I swear he has regrown a TON - especially in the frontal area which is so hard to bring back. Seriously, go check out the thread it's worth the read.

I've tried to do as much research as I can regarding these herbs and it would seem they are highly adept at reducing inflammation. I finally decided to give it a shot and am on Day 3.

 

[TubZy]

Another area I was looking into was the use of anti fungals. We know selenium sulfide, ketoconazole, miconazole nitrate, piroctone olamine shampoos/lotions etc. all are marketed for their anti fungal properties and all have been shown to slow down/halt hair loss and provide regrowth and thickness.

There are a few different areas as to why they provide that benefit. Nizoral (ketoconazole) inhibits adrenal cortisol synthesis. It was actually studied as a way to improve insulin resistance in humans but the study was cancelled due to the unsafe side effects (they were administering it orally though).

Also, ketoconazole works principally by inhibition of an enzyme, cytochrome P450 14-alpha-demethylase (P45014DM). This enzyme is in the sterol biosynthesis pathway that leads from lanosterol to ergosterol. Fluconazole and itraconazole have been found to have a greater affinity for fungal cell membrane than ketoconazole, and thus lower doses of these azoles are required to kill fungi.

Miconazole is an imidazole antifungal agent, developed by Janssen Pharmaceutica, and commonly applied topically (to the skin) or mucus membranes to cure fungal infections. It works by inhibiting the synthesis of ergosterol, a critical component of fungal cell membranes. Ergosterol is a component of fungal cell membranes, serving the same function that cholesterol serves in animal cells.

These results suggest that miconazole is the strongest inhibitor against CYP1A2, CYP2D6, and CYP2E1 among the antifungal drugs investigated.

Topical clotrimazole (another anti fungal) for example, has listed hair growth as it side effects.

Side/adverse effects of clotrimazole
Signs of potential side effects, especially hypersensitivity; stinging; urticaria; paresthesia; rash; secondary infection; swelling; and long-term effects, including acne or oily skin; allergic contact dermatitis; folliculitis; hypopigmentation; increased hair growth on face and body; increased hair loss on scalp; perioral dermatitis; reddish purple lines on arms, face, legs, trunk, or groin; skin atrophy; and skin maceration


Imidazoles
Miconazole – miconazole nitrate
Ketoconazole
Clotrimazole – marketed as Lotrimin or Lotrimin AF (and Canesten in the UK)
Econazole
Bifonazole
Butoconazole
Fenticonazole
Isoconazole
Oxiconazole
Sertaconazole – marketed as Ertaczo in North America
Sulconazole
Tioconazole
Griseofulvin - marketed as india
The triazoles are newer, less toxic[citation needed] and more effective[citation needed]:

Triazoles
Fluconazole
Itraconazole
Isavuconazole
Ravuconazole
Posaconazole
Voriconazole
Terconazole


So what is your guys thoughts on anti fungals and the hair connection?

Maybe it could be that once the hair loss has initiated (mpb) due to the cell not performing as well (or slowed metabolism/excess cortisol, estrogen, prolactin etc.) the hair follicles on the scalp are more susceptible to yeast and other bacteria that would not normally be there when the cell is functioning properly. Once anti fungals are used topically on the scalp it kills any the bacteria/fungus and the cell can resume normal function of hair growth.

Another "anti fungal" that comes to mind that can also help with hair is methylene blue. Aspirin that is also anti fungal is beneficial for hair as well. Niacinamide is anti fungal too. There is an interesting connection between things that have anti fungal properties and hair growth.

 

[JDreamer]

@TubZy in reference to your post above - do you think it's possible that my chronic sinus infections play into the overgrowth of bacteria/fungi on my scalp?

 

[Progesterone]

UPDATE:

I've been using Selsun Blue shampoo 1% EOD, 5mins on, rinse, 5mins on, rinse, total 10mins - for the past 2 weeks or so.

I noticed in my last shower, that I shed under 10 hairs (if I'm being conservative). I physically counted like 4-5 hairs.

This is... insane.

I hope this trend continues and it's not some sort of fluke.

TubZy - is this typically what others are experiencing with Selsun Blue usage?

Thanks.

 

[TubZy]

@TubZy in reference to your post above - do you think it's possible that my chronic sinus infections play into the overgrowth of bacteria/fungi on my scalp?

Yeah, I do. Both steroids influence fungi and fungi influence steroids. I think it also has a relationship to iron as well. Like literally 95% of the things we talk about for hair that are beneficial have ant fungal properties.

I also found this: Clotrimatop Solution (Clotrimazole 1%) | Skin Treatment -Allivet

Could be a good addition to add a few drops to topicals...

Another area I was looking at was topical glycine. And most of us know taurine works pretty well for hair and glycine and taurine have similar actions in the body.

It increases ATP

Non-Essential Amino Acid Glycine can Improve ATP Production - Article

 

[TubZy]

UPDATE:

I've been using Selsun Blue shampoo 1% EOD, 5mins on, rinse, 5mins on, rinse, total 10mins - for the past 2 weeks or so.

I noticed in my last shower, that I shed under 10 hairs (if I'm being conservative). I physically counted like 4-5 hairs.

This is... insane.

I hope this trend continues and it's not some sort of fluke.

TubZy - is this typically what others are experiencing with Selsun Blue usage?

Thanks.

Yup, your scalp health should normalize you should notice soon, if not already. Yeah it should continue, just don't overuse, that is where you can run into issues.

Did you start progesterone yet?

 

[Progesterone]

Yup, your scalp health should normalize you should notice soon, if not already. Yeah it should continue, just don't overuse, that is where you can run into issues.

Did you start progesterone yet?

I've been on progesterone for 5months or so. In varying dosages; right now on 40mg/each night.

I apply 20mg to testicles and wrists, as well as 20mg on face, each night before bed.

Sorry if that wasn't clear. I plan to be able to use it topically now directly on scalp and/or orally as well, in addition to my regular dosing protocol.

FYI... i am using this product to boost thyroid (Ultra Glandular Enterprises, Raw Thyroid, 90 Easy To Swallow Tablets)

I only take 1 a day, after I wakeup. Can someone who has more knowledge on this tell me if I should be taking more? perhaps 3 a day, at certain intervals? I did try 3-4 at one point but only for a very short period of time.

I am also wondering if perhaps switching to a less potent raw thyroid product like this (Natural Sources, Raw Thyroid, 180 Capsules) may be of benefit considering it contains Adrenal tissue, Pituitary tissue, Spleen tissue, in addition to the raw bovine thyroid.

Thanks!


EDIT: just washed my hair with the Selsun Blue, 5min on, rinse, 5min on, rinse (total 10min) and I have a grand total of 8 hairs that came out! 4 were quite short, and 4 were long. I stuck them all on the wall as I saw them, and also took a picture of them. Keep in mind my hair is quite long. It can go past my chin, and in the back, it touches my shoulders. Someone with hair my length and who has MPB will see a LOT of shedding normally but yeah.... 8 hairs. Normally I would see so many hairs in my hands as I'm rubbing shampoo in, that I would not even bother to count because it seems like it's too much to count. This is pretty exciting progress.. I remain cautiously optimistic about this. :)

 

[LukeL]

@TubZy - read the abstract below about fungi and increased free fatty acids in the scalp...you are on to something

Three etiologic facets of dandruff and seborrheic dermatitis: Malassezia fungi, sebaceous lipids, and individual sensitivity. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[LukeL]

Apparently this fungi is rampant and statistically significant in people who are shedding hair - Increased hair shedding may be associated with the presence of Pityrosporum ovale. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[TubZy]

@TubZy - read the abstract below about fungi and increased free fatty acids in the scalp...you are on to something

Three etiologic facets of dandruff and seborrheic dermatitis: Malassezia fungi, sebaceous lipids, and individual sensitivity. - PubMed - NCBI

Interesting, thanks. There is def some relation.

 

[Luckytype]

There was a time i tried the nizoral route, basically patting it to lather letting it sit. Good god was that a scalp irritant. I fear the same from selsun. Thoughts?

 

[Progesterone]

There was a time i tried the nizoral route, basically patting it to lather letting it sit. Good god was that a scalp irritant. I fear the same from selsun. Thoughts?

You fear the same, meaning you've never tried it?

Try the Selsun Blue!

I've also used Nizoral in the past and never really noticed anything at all from it...

P.S washed my hair again tonight with Selsun Blue, same method, 5min on, rinse, 5min on, rinse. I counted a total of (2) hairs that came out of my head. I don't want to get too excited about this, it could be a huge fluke who knows, and not sure if it's directly from Selsun Blue as I'm also using 9g+ Taurine orally and 3g Taurine topically a day, too, but, so far so good for me.

One big thing I think Selsun blue is helping with is the itch I get... I don't get it too often but when I'm working out intensely I usually get it. Since starting Selsun Blue, that is basically gone. We know that inorganic selenium inhibits PGD2, we know that PGD2 inhibitor drugs are being trialed right now for MPB. Selsun Blue is inexpensive as heck, and people on forums are trying it with good results so far. Not sure what else you can ask for...

 

[TubZy]

There was a time i tried the nizoral route, basically patting it to lather letting it sit. Good god was that a scalp irritant. I fear the same from selsun. Thoughts?

Nizoral was much more harsh on the scalp when I used to use it IMO. It is also anti androgenic.

 

[Wagner83]

One big thing I think Selsun blue is helping with is the itch I get... I don't get it too often but when I'm working out intensely I usually get it.

That's interesting and maybe an other clue as to what happens, I also get the itch when I sweat. Watch out for digestive issues with that much taurine.

 

[Progesterone]

That's interesting and maybe an other clue as to what happens, I also get the itch when I sweat. Watch out for digestive issues with that much taurine.

I notice I am farting much more than usual, and I seem get bloated quite easily..

Nothing that would make me want to stop this experiment, considering the possible upside.

 

[DaveFoster]

@JonnyCraig Please keep us updated on the Selsun Blue.

 

[TubZy]

I notice I am farting much more than usual, and I seem get bloated quite easily..

Nothing that would make me want to stop this experiment, considering the possible upside.

When you finish your experiment, you should add in topical and/or oral niacinamide as well. That should help, especially since you have the itch too, which seems niacinamide cuts out for me and a lot of others even with dandruff issues.

 

[Progesterone]

When you finish your experiment, you should add in topical and/or oral niacinamide as well. That should help, especially since you have the itch too, which seems niacinamide cuts out for me and a lot of others even with dandruff issues.

Will do. I can pick some up today.

Will any old Vitamin B3 (as long as it's marked as niacinamide) do?

I know niacin apparently boosts pge2 but also pgd2.. niacinamide is different?

 

[raypeatclips]

When you finish your experiment, you should add in topical and/or oral niacinamide as well. That should help, especially since you have the itch too, which seems niacinamide cuts out for me and a lot of others even with dandruff issues.

You used topical niacinamide at all? I didn't see it in your list on the first page.

 

[Luckytype]

That's interesting and maybe an other clue as to what happens, I also get the itch when I sweat. Watch out for digestive issues with that much taurine.

See and for me I feel like more of my itch is when I don't have moisture on my scalp. Like for example when I wasnt taking a gym break, I would get a little itch in a few places, but its winter here so its more cold and dry. Once I would warm up the itch would lessen or disappear