Sulbutiamine

Kasper

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I know peat mentioned B1 for boosting brain energy. I found this information from wikipedia about Sulbutiamine quite interesting. This is a derivative of thiamin that passes the blood brain barrier more rapidly.

Sulbutiamine is a lipophilic molecule that crosses the blood–brain barrier more easily than thiamine. Its metabolism in the brain leads to an increase in the levels of thiamine and thiamine phosphate esters.[1][19] While the exact mechanism of action of sulbutiamine is unknown, it is thought to occur through the upregulation of the reticular activating system, which is the center of arousal and motivation in the brain.[4] The administration of sulbutiamine potentiates cholinergic activity in the hippocampus.[13] It also potentiates glutamatergic activity in the prefrontal cortex through a reduction in the density of kainate glutamate receptors, which may occur in response to a modulation of intrasynaptic glutamate.[20] The facilitation of central glutamatergic transmission is a likely explanation for the ability of sulbutiamine to improve memory.[21][22][23][24] In addition to its action on cholinergic and glutamatergic transmission, the administration of sulbutiamine reduces the release of dopamine in the prefrontal cortex, which increases the density of D1 dopamine receptors through a compensatory mechanism.[20] The modulation of dopaminergic transmission may also contribute to the ability of sulbutiamine to improve memory.[25][26][27] A possible explanation for the pharmacodynamics of sulbutiamine is the increased availability of thiamine triphosphate (ThTP). Although the full physiological role of ThTP is unknown, it is an integral component of synaptosomal membranes,[28] participates in the phosphorylation of proteins,[29] and activates chloride channels that have a large unit conductance.[30] The activation of chloride channels by ThTP may be involved in the modulation of receptor binding.

Not quite sure what to think about the reduce of release of dopamine in the prefrontal cortex, but anyway wanted to share this.
 
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Kasper

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/4059305
Chronic administration of sulbutiamine improves long term memory formation in mice: possible cholinergic mediation.

Thiamine deficiency in both man and animals is known to produce memory dysfunction and cognitive disorders which have been related to an impairment of cholinergic activity. The present experiment was aimed at testing whether, inversely, chronic administration of large doses of sulbutiamine would have a facilitative effect on memory and would induce changes in central cholinergic activity. Accordingly mice received 300 mg/kg of sulbutiamine daily for 10 days. They were then submitted to an appetitive operant level press conditioning test. When compared to control subjects, sulbutiamine treated mice learned the task at the same rate in a single session but showed greatly improved performance when tested 24 hr after partial acquisition of the same task. Parallel neurochemical investigations showed that the treatment induced a slight (+ 10%) but significant increase in hippocampal sodium-dependent high affinity choline uptake. The present findings and previous results suggest that sulbutiamine improves memory formation and that this behavioral effect could be mediated by an increase in hippocampal cholinergic activity.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15951087
Chronic treatment with sulbutiamine improves memory in an object recognition task and reduces some amnesic effects of dizocilpine in a spatial delayed-non-match-to-sample task.

The effect of a sulbutiamine chronic treatment on memory was studied in rats with a spatial delayed-non-match-to-sample (DNMTS) task in a radial maze and a two trial object recognition task. After completion of training in the DNMTS task, animals were subjected for 9 weeks to daily injections of either saline or sulbutiamine (12.5 or 25 mg/kg). Sulbutiamine did not modify memory in the DNMTS task but improved it in the object recognition task. Dizocilpine, impaired both acquisition and retention of the DNMTS task in the saline-treated group, but not in the two sulbutiamine-treated groups, suggesting that sulbutiamine may counteract the amnesia induced by a blockade of the N-methyl-D-aspartate glutamate receptors. Taken together, these results are in favor of a beneficial effect of sulbutiamine on working and episodic memory.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17675917
[Effects of the association of sulbutiamine with an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor in early stage and moderate Alzheimer disease].

The effect of a sulbutiamine chronic treatment on memory was studied in rats with a spatial delayed-non-match-to-sample (DNMTS) task in a radial maze and a two trial object recognition task. After completion of training in the DNMTS task, animals were subjected for 9 weeks to daily injections of either saline or sulbutiamine (12.5 or 25 mg/kg). Sulbutiamine did not modify memory in the DNMTS task but improved it in the object recognition task. Dizocilpine, impaired both acquisition and retention of the DNMTS task in the saline-treated group, but not in the two sulbutiamine-treated groups, suggesting that sulbutiamine may counteract the amnesia induced by a blockade of the N-methyl-D-aspartate glutamate receptors. Taken together, these results are in favor of a beneficial effect of sulbutiamine on working and episodic memory.
 

Constatine

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Bump. Any experiences?
I've used it before when I was going through my nootropic stage lol. Great for motivation and brain energy. Might just help you with the concern in your other thread. I don't know how sustainable it is however, I only used it sparingly. I've heard of tolerance reports and those saying they built no tolerance. To me tolerance doesn't make much sense (maybe only to the pro dopamine effects in parts of the brain).
 

DaveFoster

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I've used it before when I was going through my nootropic stage lol. Great for motivation and brain energy. Might just help you with the concern in your other thread. I don't know how sustainable it is however, I only used it sparingly. I've heard of tolerance reports and those saying they built no tolerance. To me tolerance doesn't make much sense (maybe only to the pro dopamine effects in parts of the brain).
Interesting; I'm trying to find a replacement for mirtazapine at the moment. After dosing around 10 mcg mirtazapine, my withdrawal symptoms subsided significantly, so maybe it's just withdrawal.

Even B1 (thiamine) has pronounced nootropic effects.

Sulbutiamine seems to have a high abuse potential similar to phenibut, but I wonder if it's harmful or beneficial.
 

Constatine

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Interesting; I'm trying to find a replacement for mirtazapine at the moment. After dosing around 10 mcg mirtazapine, my withdrawal symptoms subsided significantly, so maybe it's just withdrawal.

Even B1 (thiamine) has pronounced nootropic effects.

Sulbutiamine seems to have a high abuse potential similar to phenibut, but I wonder if it's harmful or beneficial.
It definitely does have potential for abuse. I've never seen it fail safety tests in scientific literature. Any negative perspective come from forums. That being said it is very understudied.
 

chispas

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Interesting; I'm trying to find a replacement for mirtazapine at the moment. After dosing around 10 mcg mirtazapine, my withdrawal symptoms subsided significantly, so maybe it's just withdrawal.

Even B1 (thiamine) has pronounced nootropic effects.

Sulbutiamine seems to have a high abuse potential similar to phenibut, but I wonder if it's harmful or beneficial.

How much B1 do you take these days, if you don't mind me asking? When do you take it?
 

DaveFoster

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How much B1 do you take these days, if you don't mind me asking? When do you take it?
I take about 1-2 g/day. 1 g from Energin and 200 additional mg as needed for studying.
 

chispas

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I take about 1-2 g/day. 1 g from Energin and 200 additional mg as needed for studying.

Thanks. I thought B3 was good for studying as well, have you tried it? I tend to get good ability to concentrate with B3, but it becomes harder to recall things. B1 helps with recall, but not with concentration.
 

DaveFoster

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Thanks. I thought B3 was good for studying as well, have you tried it? I tend to get good ability to concentrate with B3, but it becomes harder to recall things. B1 helps with recall, but not with concentration.
It is. The most important thing for me is keeping anxiety low, which is very hard to do without anti-serotonin drugs and l-theanine. Also, hypo and hyperthyroidism causes anxiety.
 

chispas

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It is. The most important thing for me is keeping anxiety low, which is very hard to do without anti-serotonin drugs and l-theanine. Also, hypo and hyperthyroidism causes anxiety.

I used to have chronic anxiety. I used to have panic attacks several times a day and I would fear leaving the house. I know how shitty it is. I used to be a weeping, shivering, mess. Bordered on delirium at one point.

Salt has helped me the best. I learnt that my adrenaline was so high all the time that it had become normalised. I could never build any muscle, was always skinny. Salty juice has been one of the best things for me, as well as ruthlessly avoiding foods that upset me. And heavy strength training.
 

DaveFoster

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I used to have chronic anxiety. I used to have panic attacks several times a day and I would fear leaving the house. I know how shitty it is. I used to be a weeping, shivering, mess. Bordered on delirium at one point.

Salt has helped me the best. I learnt that my adrenaline was so high all the time that it had become normalised. I could never build any muscle, was always skinny. Salty juice has been one of the best things for me, as well as ruthlessly avoiding foods that upset me. And heavy strength training.
Completely agree. Zero starch helps me quite a bit. Ray says salt and vitamin E are the safest supplements; the former lowers adrenaline and the latter lowers estrogen. With lowered adrenaline, I find appetite returns nicely and that way you can balance your blood sugar effectively and lower cortisol. Win-win.
 

chispas

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Completely agree. Zero starch helps me quite a bit. Ray says salt and vitamin E are the safest supplements; the former lowers adrenaline and the latter lowers estrogen. With lowered adrenaline, I find appetite returns nicely and that way you can balance your blood sugar effectively and lower cortisol. Win-win.

Yeah I need to keep trying with E. I had a product that was 99% mixed tocopherol, and it really would upset my stomach. Couldn't find the right dose. I should try haiduts product.
 

DaveFoster

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Yeah I need to keep trying with E. I had a product that was 99% mixed tocopherol, and it really would upset my stomach. Couldn't find the right dose. I should try haiduts product.
TocoVit's very effective; even a couple drops a day should be sufficient.
 

raypeatclips

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Yeah I need to keep trying with E. I had a product that was 99% mixed tocopherol, and it really would upset my stomach. Couldn't find the right dose. I should try haiduts product.

Have you tried the vitamin E topically? Fat solubles really bother my stomach so I just take them all topically now. I believe Ray has the same problem and does this as well.
 
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