A Cancer Therapy By Max Gerson - Selected Parts

papaya

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I've already disclosed it in these threads:
- Cancer And Glucose (sugar)
- Biochemical Health Reduction And Oxidation, Politics And Science, 2015

Both Gerson and Ray agree on potassium needing to be in the cells and sodium outside, and that when sodium enters the cells, it causes them to take up water, and thus needs to be evacuated.

Ray claims one can eat as much salt as he craves, provided the alkaline minerals potassium and magnesium are taken concomitantly at the same time in sufficient quantities.

Which probably means cancer patients too.

According to Charlotte, Gerson had excluded salt from the start of his tuberculosis protocol, because it caused him migraines.

And the first Gerson scientific papers on his tuberculosis diet are in German, and available only in state libraries..

On the other side, there's the "tissue damage syndrome" talked about by Freeman Cope and Ling.


There's Emanuel Revici' experiments showing salt enhances tumor growth and atherosclerosis (Salt Encourages Tumor Growth ( Revici Experiments))

And there's Hans Selye's own experiences showing the damaging effects of a high salt diet (Cancer And Glucose (sugar)).

I think Ray could certainly be proved right if the experiences showing sodium toxicity could be prevented by simultaneous potassium and magnesium supplementation.

But the fact remains modern diets are way too rich in sodium, while not enough raw, potasium-rich vegetables are consumed (cooking causes loss of potassium), which can potentially cause injury.

Where is the balance to prevent this?

Maybe the scientific papers show it somewhere, but i don't know.

In any case, as Giraffe wrote, high potassium intake naturally causes natriuresis; it's a simple ionic mechanism in the kidneys.
Even if one is in perfect health.


Low Na, High K Diet and the Role of Aldosterone in BK-Mediated K Excretion

So, as long as one is in good health and drinks carrot-apple juices, he can salt his meals as he pleases.

On the other hand, Gerson forbade salt and fats to his recovered cancer patients:
other than orange juice, what form of potassium supp does ray recommend? do u think it would it be a good idea to take gerson's potassium combo?
 

burtlancast

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other than orange juice, what form of potassium supp does ray recommend? do u think it would it be a good idea to take gerson's potassium combo?

All vegetables and fruits are rich in potassium; i'm not sure Ray's fond of juicing .
He wrote about the dangers of too much carrot juice ( the carotene was interfering with the transport of the thyroid hormone).

I think for the people salt sensitive ( where blood pressure rises from too much salt) juicing would be a natural way of inducing natriuresis.

Potassium supplements would be a cheaper way of doing it.
 
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Amazoniac

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burtlan, I never mentioned that it was thanks to your insistence on Max's work that I decided to read him.
I feel that at least some people became more aware of the importance of potassium and a few other aspects after this and your threads related to his work; we owe it to you, many thanks!
 
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Dante

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@Amazoniac , is it niacin or niacinamide ? From what i have heard niacin greater than 100 mg daily can cause liver problems while niacinamide doesn't.
 
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Amazoniac

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@Amazoniac , is it niacin or niacinamide ? From what i have heard niacin greater than 100 mg daily can cause liver problems while niacinamide doesn't.
I think that it's niacin, and maybe I'm hallucinating but something similar to the flush, typical of higher doses, is described in the book. I'm not sure. burtlan might know.

Edit:
"Patients are easily frightened in the beginning when niacin causes a diffuse redness and heat all over the body or, more often, on the head and arms; this reaction is harmless and lasts only a few minutes. To avoid such reactions it is advisable to dissolve the tablet on the tongue after a meal or a glass of juice."

--
Niacinamide Or Just Plain Niacin?
 
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Dante

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I think that it's niacin, and maybe I'm hallucinating but something similar to the flush, typical of higher doses, is described in the book. I'm not sure. burtlan might know.

Edit:
"Patients are easily frightened in the beginning when niacin causes a diffuse redness and heat all over the body or, more often, on the head and arms; this reaction is harmless and lasts only a few minutes. To avoid such reactions it is advisable to dissolve the tablet on the tongue after a meal or a glass of juice."

--
Niacinamide Or Just Plain Niacin?
in the post you highlighted , burt said niacinamide being harmful for liver and while niacin being not but in this post
Niacinamide Reverses / Cures Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy
haidut said quoting from the study that ->
" niacin depleted liver glycogen while niacinamide increased it.Finally, niacin caused hyperinsulinemia while niacinamide did not.
Nicotinic acid decreased rat liver glycogen contents in a dose-dependent manner. In contrast, nicotinamide increased liver glycogen content. High cumulative nicotinic acid exposure showed a high level of plasma insulin."
I talked to a doctor once who said niacin can cause elevated liver enzymes over 120 mg dosage taken for longer periods of time while niacinamide being harmless.
 

burtlancast

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in the post you highlighted , burt said niacinamide being harmful for liver and while niacin being not

I've gone back to the old thread and checked the Niacin book by Hoffer, because i've mentioned in my post i wasn't 100% sure of it.

And, sure enough, it's actually sustained-release niacin that's hepato toxic, not niacinamide.

My bad.

""Sustained-, extended-, and time-release niacin are often advertised as not causing a flush at all. This claim may not be completely true; sometimes the flush is just postponed. It may be difficult to determine your optimum level with an extended-, sustained-, or time-release product. All three are also more costly. But the biggest reason to avoid sustained-release niacin is that relatively more reports of side effects stem from use of that form. 7A 2007 review by Guyton and Bays of many niacin therapy studies reveals that regular (“ immediate release,” or IR) niacin is quite safe; extended- or time-release are safe, but unnecessarily pricey, and sustained release (SR) has the most side effects. They write: Shortly after Altschul and colleagues described cholesterol lowering by niacin in 1955, sustained-release (SR) formulations were developed in an attempt to reduce flushing. However, these were quickly found to be hepatotoxic in some patients. . . . Henkin et al. 19found 8 cases of hepatitis in 15 patients using SR niacin, compared with none in 67 patients using regular niacin. Three patients who had experienced hepatitis with SR niacin were subsequently able to tolerate equal or higher doses of regular niacin. 20McKenney et al. 3directly compared IR and SR niacin in a randomized clinical trial with dosage escalation from 500 to 3,000 mg/ day over a period of 30 weeks. None of the 23 patients taking IR niacin developed hepatotoxic effects, whereas 12 of 23 patients (52%) taking SR niacin did. The increase in liver toxicity with SR niacin mainly occurred with doses 1,500 mg/ day. "
 
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Amazoniac

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Members that never allow yourselves to sweat after being challenged by a battery for cadmium retention,

This is from Charlotte Gerson and Morton Walker's book on the Gerson Therapy.

Everyday Factors That Contribute to the Rise of Cancer:
  1. Atmospheric cosmic rays and X rays
  2. Sunlight's ultraviolet rays
  3. Chronic electromagnetic field exposure
  4. Geopathic stress
  5. Sick building syndrome
  6. Ionizing radiation
  7. Microwave oven radiation
  8. Nonionizing electromagnetic radiation from domestic appliances
  9. Overhead power lines
  10. Nuclear radiation
  11. Pesticide/herbicide residues
  12. Industrial toxins
  13. Drinking or bathing in polluted water
  14. Drinking or bathing in chlorinated water
  15. Tobacco and smoking
  16. Hormonal therapies
  17. Immune-suppressive drugs
  18. Consuming irradiated foods
  19. Ingesting food additives
  20. Mercury toxicity from any source
  21. Toxic metal syndrome
  22. Dental amalgam fillings
  23. Dental root canals
  24. Dental cavitations (jawbone spaces left by poor tooth extraction)
  25. Dental metals of all types
  26. Steady use of street drugs
  27. Steady use of prescription drugs
  28. Steady use of nonprescription drugs
  29. Nerve interference fields
  30. Diet or nutritional deficiencies
  31. Consumption of synthetic "nonfoods"
  32. Chronic physical or mental stress
  33. Destructive negative emotions
  34. Depressed thyroid action
  35. Intestinal toxicity or digestive impairment
  36. Parasites
  37. Viruses
  38. Bacterial infections
  39. Fungal infections
  40. Blocked detoxification pathways
  41. Free radical pathology
  42. Cellular oxygen deficiency
  43. Adverse cellular terrain
  44. Oncogenes (cellular genes that change normal cells into cancer)
  45. Genetic predisposition
  46. Miasm (energy residues of previous illnesses)
  47. Physical irritants, e.g., asbestos
  48. Alcohol consumption
 

InChristAlone

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Then how does anyone get out alive?! Haha everything about our modern life causes cancer it seems.
 

Richiebogie

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Speaking of Charlotte, Charlotte Gerson says her father disliked all fats.... except linseed oil!

The modern Charlotte Gerson therapy puts linseed oil in its salads!

She has updated her father's work with linseed recommendations!

Apparently Max Gerson had scribbled something on the side of his notebook saying linseed was alright despite his earlier published work advising to avoid all fats.

Ray Peat could hardly believe that Charlotte would change her father's advice based on a scribble and ignoring other researcher's findings.

By the way, Steven Gundry would also recommend against potatoes due to high levels of lectins.

(He also suggests you avoid A1 milk, nuts, seeds, grains, beans, peanuts, tomatoes, peppers and eggplants. These may already be excluded by both Gersons.)

"There are so many Lectins in beans, that five raw Kidney Beans will kill a human by the Lectins binding to the sugar molecules on the surface of our red blood cells, making our red blood cells clump together and our blood coagulate!

So powerful are the Lectins in beans, that the CDC believes that 50% of all "food poisoning" cases in this country are actually caused by the ingestion of undercooked beans or other Lectin containing foods."

Lectins
 
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Regina

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Amazoniac -
wrt to, "In human beings some acute and chronic diseases are due to the following deficiencies:
Does Gerson expand on the "Anemias, to copper and iron"....?
Thx!
 

burtlancast

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Concerning the flaxseed oil controversy, i believe it trully was experimented with and found beneficial, but it happened during the last 6 months of Gerson's life, and he never had the time to add it to his book.
So he couldn't possibly have enough data to be categorically positive it definitely improved patients for a year and more.

Let's remember Gerson at one time tried sexual hormones on a group of 25 patients, and got good results the first few months, only for them to worsen after this period ( 80% died from it).

I can add to that, that more than 12 years ago now, there appeared an article by a professor in Chicago that cancer patients benefit from administration of sex hormones. I gave it first to three patients, then to five. They reacted well for the first two to three months. Then I gave it to 25 more. They all reacted well for three to four months but after five months they went downhill. I lost 25 of my best cancer cases. Only six I could save again. That was the disaster from the hormone treatment. The Gunther boy was another disaster. That was not necessary.

Flaxseed oil was found to contain Linmarin, a form of Vit B17 (laetrile) as well as the cannabinoid CBD (discovered only in 2010) so this might explain Peat's dilemma over getting what appears like pure omegas 3.

Let's too remember Charlotte has been great at perpetuating the Gerson program ( putting aside the flaxseed oil controversy) but has failed totally at keeping up with the modern scientific research; nowadays, she naively parrots the establishment line of saturated fats and cholesterol causing cancer and diabetes. She really has no clue how her healing program really works.

Gar Hildenbrand is the one who made some strides; but he's a one man operation.





http://gerson-research.org/publications/

CHIPSA Hospital: Enhanced Gerson Therapy
 
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Travis

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Contrary to what I thought before, dietary fats, and especially free oils, do amplify the problem with starch and endotoxin. If the liver is already burdened/weak, then that combination might be dangerous.
I'm pretty sure that any fat will increase endotoxin translocation.

...nowadays, she naively parrots the establishment line of saturated fats and cholesterol causing cancer and diabetes.
I haven't come across anyone who I thought was 100% correct all of the time. The best we can do is listen to people who are over 95% right and find out where they're wrong.

Even Linus Pauling, who knows that cholesterol–CVD connection is BS, was wrong about a few things. He proposed a triple-helix structure for DNA, and I think his theory of general anesthesia is wrong (it's really neat though).

Not only Charlotte Gerson, but Robert Koch also was a fan of cold-pressed PUFA. Sometimes you hear people talk about "extra electrons", but if you actually count them you will find that an unsaturated fatty acid actually has less electrons that a saturated fatty acid of the same C-number.

Ray Peat does always talk about salt as if it's a good thing. I am not quite sure on that. I would tend to lean more towards Gerson on this. Salt will raise blood pressure through osmosis initially right after it's absorbed and in the circulation. One group on natives studied during the massive INTERSALT study had blood pressure that did not rise with age. They were the only group and ate no crystalline salt.

But of course, salt has other functions which might outweigh the blood pressure effect.

And Gerson and Peat seem the be towards opposite ends of the spectrum on Lugol's. Ray recommended a low-dose (the RDA), but that was during a time when taking milligram amounts was popular. He could have been intentionally overcautious. Lugol's does seem to inhibit cancer however by iodinating oils which are taken-up by certain organs (at least in vitro).
 
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Amazoniac

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It's interesting how the original fresh liver juice was substituted for dessicated liver out of safety. Except that most of the commercial dessicated livers seem to lack what the juice provided: plenty water-soluble compounds, such as b vits. However they seem to retain b12 just like cheeses, does it have an affinity for proteins?
By the way, @haidut, aqueous liver extract would be a cool supplement.
 
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Travis, I agree about salt. And I think Ray agrees too...

Ray wrote about Gerson (I posted in the email advice thread:)

The ratio of potassium to sodium, and the avoidance of polyunsaturated oils, were basic principles of Gerson’s.

I think his objection to milk and cheese was based on their high fat content, and the addition of salt to cheese.

The nutritional composition of milk from grass fed animals is very similar to that of the grass they ate, apart from the saturation of the fatty acids.

The current ideas of the Gerson diet don’t accurately reflect Gerson’s ideas; for example, the book his daughter published about 20 years after his death advocated using linseed oil, on the pages where he had warned in capital letters against using any oil, and she claimed that she had found information in his office indicating admiration for Johanna Budwig’s ideas, including the use of linseed oil.
 

Regina

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It's interesting how the original fresh liver juice was substituted for dessicated liver out of safety. Except that most of the commercial dessicated livers seem to lack what the juice provided: plenty water-soluble compounds, such as b vits. However they seem to retain b12 just like cheeses, does it have an affinity for proteins?
By the way, @haidut, aqueous liver extract would be a cool supplement.
Maybe haidut could make Yakriton:
https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/tjem1920/9/1/9_1_66/_pdf
https://www.seleneriverpress.com/hi...e-detoxicating-hormone-of-the-liver-yakriton/
Because Standard Process adds pufa and other garbage to their Yakriton supplement:
https://www.standardprocess.com/Products/Standard-Process/Antronex#.WW0jHclOnMU
 
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Travis

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Here is an interesting article about Na⁺/K⁺ which mentions both Gilbert Ling and Max Gerson. My favorite paragraph:
Modern experimental evidence indicates that the cell should be regarded as analogous to an ion exchanger resin granule with structured water in the interstices and with potassium and sodium ions associated with fixed negative charges on the protein matrix [Glu, Asp]. This line of investigation was initiated by Ling who called it the “association-induction hypothesis,” and was extended by others including Damadian, who used the terms “ion exchanger resin” and “cytotonus model” of the cell.
Google Scholar says it was published in the journal Physiological chemistry and physics in 1978, but that link was broken so I plain-Googled it and found it on a pro-Gerson website (⇓):

A medical application of the Ling Association-Induction Hypothesis: the high potassium, low sodium diet of the Gerson cancer therapy
Freeman W. Cope, M.D.

Freeman Cope has a publication in the journal Nature with Damadian, one of the inventors of the magnetic resonance imaging for medical applications.
Cell potassium by ³⁹K spin echo nuclear magnetic resonance

He has also published an article with Gilbert Ling in Science called
Potassium ion: is the bulk of intracellular K⁺ adsorbed?

Potassium is a good reason to eat plants and fruit. I don't think added sodium should be a huge problem if you eat enough potassium. I have seen dietary estimates in studies on blood pressure and some people actually consume more sodium than potassium. Essentially all natural foods, including beef and dairy, have a Na⁺:K⁺ ratio of between 1:5 and 1:11.

It is practically impossible to consume more sodium than potassium without additional NaCl, MSG, or baking soda.




 

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