Choline, Folate Vs Folic Acid

[Such_Saturation]

I tried bitartarate and phosphatidylcholine, it does prevent some headaches in the long run but nothing that eggs can't provide, especially since you can take it at anytime of day. There are more powerful forms but one of them is dangerous and acts in additional ways anyhow. AlCar is much more useful to racetam users, choline your body should recycle it (in theory). Anyway Ray Peat says don't mess with acetylcholine so I won't mess with choline either.

 

[freal]

About this:
<<Methionine and choline are the main dietary sources of methyl donors. Restriction of methionine has many protective effects, including increased average (42%) and maximum (44%) longevity in rats (Richie, et al., 1994). Restriction of methyl donors causes demethylation of DNA (Epner, 2001). The age accelerating effect of methionine might be related to disturbing the methylation balance, inappropriately suppressing cellular activity. Besides its effect on the methyl pool, methionine inhibits thyroid function and damages mitochondria.>>

I think Chris Masterjohn did an article on this. Glycine (providing there is enough choline or betaine and b vitamins) is the thing that is needed to balance the excessive methyl donors.

" http://www.westonaprice.org/vitamins-an ... d-and-evil "

"Adequate glycine from gelatinous materials such as bones, skin, and other connective tissue, works together with B vitamins and choline to prevent excessive methylation and to ensure adequate conversion of methionine to glutathione. This in turn ensures that methionine will be used for proper cellular communication and as part of the cellular defense against oxidants and environmental toxins."

 

[Kasper]

Adequate glycine from gelatinous materials such as bones, skin, and other connective tissue, works together with B vitamins and choline to prevent excessive methylation and to ensure adequate conversion of methionine to glutathione. This in turn ensures that methionine will be used for proper cellular communication and as part of the cellular defense against oxidants and environmental toxins.

Methionine was a "bad" amino acids right ? Is glutathione an important molecule ?

 

[BingDing]

I sure don't understand RP's take on this. Methionine is converted to S-adenosyl methionine (SAMe), which is the major source of methylation in the body. I am not sure if DNA methylation is bad, per se, but there are many methylation steps using SAMe that are vital. From this article (easier to read here, bolding mine)

Methionine is converted via the enzyme methionine adenosyltransferase (MAT) to S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe), the most important methyl donor in the body. Methylation by SAMe is a critical step in the stabilization of many proteins, including myelin. Methylation of DNA stabilizes and protects this essential molecule, and can ultimately affect gene transcription coding for numerous proteins. SAMe is involved in the synthesis of other molecules, including creatine, methylcobalamin, phosphatidylcholine, melatonin, norepinephrine, coenzyme Q10, and carnitine. SAMe also participates in the formation of polyamines and in the metabolism of serotonin and niacinamide.

Ideas or comments?

 

[DaveFoster]

@Westside PUFAs How do you get your choline: milk and greens?

Also, what do you think of the effects of tuber starch versus other types on gut microbiota?

 

[ddjd]

I think he would only recommend the phosphatidyl form, and only from food. From personal experience extra choline has nothing to do with nootropic effects nor side-effects.

Why not choline as a supplement

 

[ddjd]

I think he would only recommend the phosphatidyl form, and only from food. From personal experience extra choline has nothing to do with nootropic effects nor side-effects.

which foods have the phosphatidyl form?

 

[BearWithMe]

which foods have the phosphatidyl form?

Egg yolks and lecithin (soy, sunflower).