LSD Vs Other Anti-serotonin Drugs

LUH 3417

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Microdosing 10-15 μg every four days has been recommended. Pretty sure that's how Hoffman did it til old age. LSD is wonderful for breaking old habits and increasing body awareness amongst other things. But as a wise man once said, when you get the message, hang up the phone.
Bad trips can be attributed to a number of things, namely set and setting, and what you ate for breakfast. Also people in the west don't typically take psychedelics in ritualized settings which may have helped with the metaphysical motions.
The documentary on Maria Sabina is revealing in regards to how an indigenous woman used psilocybin therapeutically.
 

Waynish

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Microdosing 10-15 μg every four days has been recommended. Pretty sure that's how Hoffman did it til old age. LSD is wonderful for breaking old habits and increasing body awareness amongst other things. But as a wise man once said, when you get the message, hang up the phone.
Bad trips can be attributed to a number of things, namely set and setting, and what you ate for breakfast. Also people in the west don't typically take psychedelics in ritualized settings which may have helped with the metaphysical motions.
The documentary on Maria Sabina is revealing in regards to how an indigenous woman used psilocybin therapeutically.


Would be curious about your Hoffman reference because I read that he said he didn't use it but except a few times (thought he said something like "I didn't need to").
 

LUH 3417

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Would be curious about your Hoffman reference because I read that he said he didn't use it but except a few times (thought he said something like "I didn't need to").
Albert Hoffman on microdosing • /r/microdosing
"
I do not believe Albert Hofmann microdosed and I know of no evidence that he did. He did say in interview with Michael Horowitz that he thought "very small doses, perhaps 25 micrograms, could be useful as a euphoriant or antidepressant." source But he was quite capable of drawing that conclusion from occasional observation and the published literature without ongoing use of low dose LSD.

In addition, Alison Kennedy ("Queen Mu" of the psychedelic magazine Mondo 2000) reported that he told her that low dose LSD had similar effects to his nootropic drug hydergine. I haven't been able to track down that second citation, but recall it was in the magazine or its predecessor."


It's debatable if he did but seems as though he did say it would be antidepressant and euphoric. Various sources throughout the post.
 

Waynish

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It's weird to say, "Pretty sure that's [microdosing] how Hoffman did it til old age." And then say, "I do not believe Albert Hofmann microdosed and I know of no evidence that he did." Maybe I'm just daft, though.
 

LUH 3417

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That is cutting and pasting text from the quote to present two separate views.
It's weird to say, "Pretty sure that's [microdosing] how Hoffman did it til old age." And then say, "I do not believe Albert Hofmann microdosed and I know of no evidence that he did." Maybe I'm just daft, though.
 

LUH 3417

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That is cutting and pasting text from the quote to present two separate views.
It's weird to say, "Pretty sure that's [microdosing] how Hoffman did it til old age." And then say, "I do not believe Albert Hofmann microdosed and I know of no evidence that he did." Maybe I'm just daft, though.
And yes misreading quotes could be considered daft.
 
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Here is a guy who talks about a Cyproheptadine trip, Im not sure if he was using this with DMT. He was a person who was a clinical volunteer for DMT research.

I tried to find out the effects of extreme Cyproheptadine dosages and found that it causes delirium which is not a safe state to be in.



Made him grow a mad beard though :eek:
 

DaveFoster

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Microdosing 10-15 μg every four days has been recommended. Pretty sure that's how Hoffman did it til old age. LSD is wonderful for breaking old habits and increasing body awareness amongst other things. But as a wise man once said, when you get the message, hang up the phone.
Bad trips can be attributed to a number of things, namely set and setting, and what you ate for breakfast. Also people in the west don't typically take psychedelics in ritualized settings which may have helped with the metaphysical motions.
The documentary on Maria Sabina is revealing in regards to how an indigenous woman used psilocybin therapeutically.
I believe Hoffman took hydergine regularly, not LSD.
 

LUH 3417

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Why does LSD seem to have a long lasting effect on people after a single use, meanwhile, other anti-serotonin drugs have to be taken continuously?
Can you please explain why LSD is an anti-seratonin drug. I have read that it increases seratonin.
 

Constatine

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Can you please explain why LSD is an anti-seratonin drug. I have read that it increases seratonin.
The problem is that the media often substitutes for real science and confuses everyone. That being said LSD is very under studied as it is an illegal drug. But here is something quick I could find on its anti-serotonin actions: LSD acts synergistically with serotonin depletion: evidence from behavioral studies in cats. - PubMed - NCBI . It depresses the activity of serotonin and works synergistically with serotonin depletion. That being said I don't think its a good idea to experiment with lsd as it has some very strange actions like staying in your brain for a very long time.
 

LUH 3417

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The problem is that the media often substitutes for real science and confuses everyone. That being said LSD is very under studied as it is an illegal drug. But here is something quick I could find on its anti-serotonin actions: LSD acts synergistically with serotonin depletion: evidence from behavioral studies in cats. - PubMed - NCBI . It depresses the activity of serotonin and works synergistically with serotonin depletion.
I've read that it increases seratonin only when dopamine has reached levels that the body can no longer sustain and this releases seratonin as a compensatory mechanism.
Perhaps it does both. I agree it is understudied and wish to know more. Do you know anything about specific foods or supplements to take to allow the body to sustain an increased dopamine state?
 

Constatine

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I've read that it increases seratonin only when dopamine has reached levels that the body can no longer sustain and this releases seratonin as a compensatory mechanism.
Perhaps it does both. I agree it is understudied and wish to know more. Do you know anything about specific foods or supplements to take to allow the body to sustain an increased dopamine state?
Even if serotonin is increased in the brain that does not mean that lsd has pro serotonin actions as it antagonizes serotonin's activity. Thus the released serotonin will be ineffective as they cannot connect with the receptor (at least the one's lsd antagonizes). In fact the increased serotonin might be due to the extent of the antagonizing effect (the brain trying to rebalance itself in the face of extreme receptor antagonism). Though I don't know if this is a function of the brain, just speculation. I've never heard of the brain releasing serotonin in response to high dopamine levels, normally what happens is dopamine receptor downregulation. There are not many "drug" like substances that increase dopamine receptor density (that are worth taking without side effects). What does help maintain an increased dopamine state sounds pretty boring: Vitamin d, sun exposure and bright light on skin and eyes, avoiding binging on anything (especially electronics), abstinence (more so if you were a guy though), novelty, thyroid, and neurosteroid profile. But again I wouldn't worry too much about the increased serotonin as it won't do anything with lsd in your system.
 

LUH 3417

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Even if serotonin is increased in the brain that does not mean that lsd has pro serotonin actions as it antagonizes serotonin's activity. Thus the released serotonin will be ineffective as they cannot connect with the receptor (at least the one's lsd antagonizes). In fact the increased serotonin might be due to the extent of the antagonizing effect (the brain trying to rebalance itself in the face of extreme receptor antagonism). Though I don't know if this is a function of the brain, just speculation. I've never heard of the brain releasing serotonin in response to high dopamine levels, normally what happens is dopamine receptor downregulation. There are not many "drug" like substances that increase dopamine receptor density (that are worth taking without side effects). What does help maintain an increased dopamine state sounds pretty boring: Vitamin d, sun exposure and bright light on skin and eyes, avoiding binging on anything (especially electronics), abstinence (more so if you were a guy though), novelty, thyroid, and neurosteroid profile. But again I wouldn't worry too much about the increased serotonin as it won't do anything with lsd in your system.
Thank you. Does a red near infrared lamp count as bright light on skin and eyes?

Sometimes LSD makes me extremely cold to the point of shaking (coffee does the same thing). Days - months after I have very little depression, substantial motivation, and my temperature remains elevated for a while. Trying to figure out how to take it without going into an extremely stressed state.
 

Constatine

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Thank you. Does a red near infrared lamp count as bright light on skin and eyes?

Sometimes LSD makes me extremely cold to the point of shaking (coffee does the same thing). Days - months after I have very little depression, substantial motivation, and my temperature remains elevated for a while. Trying to figure out how to take it without going into an extremely stressed state.
Red or infrared light has its uses as it increases energy (atp function) and thus betters every system in the human body. That being said it does not do nearly as much as sunlight in regards to dopamine (probably). In fact some light spectrums have very negative effects on dopamine (like most indoor lights or store lights). As for red light's effects of dopamine I do not know. It stands to reason that it does increase dopamine considering the color red's influence on psychology, and people tend to feel good after red light exposure. But nevertheless sunlight is better for this purpose as it has been proven to increase dopamine receptor density dramatically. So I would say get as much sun as possible and use red light when sun is not available.

Interesting that lsd makes you feel good for a long time after. There are theories that lsd antagonizes serotonin receptors for a long time. I wonder if this is what causes such this.
 

LUH 3417

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Red or infrared light has its uses as it increases energy (atp function) and thus betters every system in the human body. That being said it does not do nearly as much as sunlight in regards to dopamine (probably). In fact some light spectrums have very negative effects on dopamine (like most indoor lights or store lights). As for red light's effects of dopamine I do not know. It stands to reason that it does increase dopamine considering the color red's influence on psychology, and people tend to feel good after red light exposure. But nevertheless sunlight is better for this purpose as it has been proven to increase dopamine receptor density dramatically. So I would say get as much sun as possible and use red light when sun is not available.

Interesting that lsd makes you feel good for a long time after. There are theories that lsd antagonizes serotonin receptors for a long time. I wonder if this is what causes such this.
Sunlight is somewhat of a luxury for me right now but I appreciate your response.
 

Waynish

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Where is this tendency coming from to paint things in such a simplistic way? Surely there is more than one way to concentrate/deplete serotonin in the body. We know this from SSRI research. Maybe LSD changes the organization of serotonin in the body to be higher in some regions and lower in others... This knee-jerk reaction to want a simple truth is going to cause problems for your world views in the long-run.
 

LUH 3417

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Where is this tendency coming from to paint things in such a simplistic way? Surely there is more than one way to concentrate/deplete serotonin in the body. We know this from SSRI research. Maybe LSD changes the organization of serotonin in the body to be higher in some regions and lower in others... This knee-jerk reaction to want a simple truth is going to cause problems for your world views in the long-run.
?
Asking questions is a way of building a more complex world view
 

Waynish

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That wasn't necessarily directed at you; I'm just noticing a tendency that each of these "Peat indicators" has to either be "high" or "low" - which is "bad" or "good," depending on which indicator it is... I'm promoting the idea that we should consider "where it is high" and more specifics.
 

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