Progesterone + Androgens In Men

[Pointless]

Given progesterone's well-known anti-androgenic effects, which are prohibitive for many people, has anyone tried to supplement both? It seems like it would be more common. The pharma companies are looking into testosterone analogs combined with progesterone as a male contraceptive, and it there were mild estrogen-like side effects in early trials.

I'm hoping that a strong androgen like androsterone or DHT along with progesterone can decrease some of the side effects I get from supplementing these alone. Progesterone causes scalp itch and hair fall (strangely enough) and eunuch syndrome, while androgens in general give me problems with mood, digestion, and joints. My response to steroids is hit or miss, but there are always bad effects even at very low doses. I'm going to try 1 mg each of progesterone and a DHT analog and see if I can get the estrogen lowering effects without maladaptation or side effects.

I invite brave souls to try this out and see if any particular dosing schedule is more effective, and whether there are any side effects.

 

[milk_lover]

From many many experiments with DHEA, pregnenolone, pansterone, and andro, pregnenolone at lower doses (~10mg) works the best. It does positive things mentally and physically without making me progesterone dominant (anti-androgenity). DHEA/pansterone gives me little estrogen symptoms maybe because of the fat I gained from the Peat diet. Fat cells are problematic. Androsterone is almost at the same level as pregnenolone and sometimes I like it more than pregnenolone. While many are doing k2+pansterone combo to increase androgens, I am doing the k2+androsterone+T3 on testicles with great results so far along with 1 to 2 low doses of pregnenolone orally. And I am losing weight/fat.

 

[Risingfire]

From many many experiments with DHEA, pregnenolone, pansterone, and andro, pregnenolone at lower doses (~10mg) works the best. It does positive things mentally and physically without making me progesterone dominant (anti-androgenity). DHEA/pansterone gives me little estrogen symptoms maybe because of the fat I gained from the Peat diet. Fat cells are problematic. Androsterone is almost at the same level as pregnenolone and sometimes I like it more than pregnenolone. While many are doing k2+pansterone combo to increase androgens, I am doing the k2+androsterone+T3 on testicles with great results so far along with 1 to 2 low doses of pregnenolone orally. And I am losing weight/fat.

How much weight have you lost? Do you feel like an anabolic machine on this protocol?

 

[milk_lover]

How much weight have you lost? Do you feel like an anabolic machine on this protocol?

To be honest, I don't own a scale so I don't know how much weight I've lost; I just go with how I feel and how my clothes fit me. And I think I am losing weight slowly.
When I take that combo, my biceps get so bumped it's like I have done 100 pushup's. I wouldn't call it an anabolic machine though, but it is certainly increasing my muscles mass while slowly reducing fat I gained from too much Peat food and DHEA conversion to estrogen.

 

[Sheik]

Progesterone causes scalp itch and hair fall (strangely enough) and eunuch syndrome, while androgens in general give me problems with mood, digestion, and joints.

Do you have PFS? I ask because men with PFS seem to react differently to progesterone.

I've taken 11-keto DHT along with progesterone a few times. The only thing I want to note is that 20mg of progesterone plus 1 drop of 11-keto DHT doesn't make my joints hurt like 3 or 4 drops of 11-keto DHT on its own, which leads me to suspect that 11-keto DHT has a much more powerful anti-estrogen effect than progesterone. I don't know what 3-4 drops of 11-keto DHT plus 20mg of progesterone would do; I just kind of assumed it would mean even more joint pain (not that I'm any kind of expert).

 

[Pointless]

No I don't have PFS. I just react weird to steroids. The 1 mg progesterone and 11-keto seem to be causing some skin inflammation and hair fall. I'd like to experiment more in the future, maybe after raising my temps and getting my liver fixed up.

 

[Braveheart]

From many many experiments with DHEA, pregnenolone, pansterone, and andro, pregnenolone at lower doses (~10mg) works the best. It does positive things mentally and physically without making me progesterone dominant (anti-androgenity). DHEA/pansterone gives me little estrogen symptoms maybe because of the fat I gained from the Peat diet. Fat cells are problematic. Androsterone is almost at the same level as pregnenolone and sometimes I like it more than pregnenolone. While many are doing k2+pansterone combo to increase androgens, I am doing the k2+androsterone+T3 on testicles with great results so far along with 1 to 2 low doses of pregnenolone orally. And I am losing weight/fat.

Like this...
How is it going for you? Still losing fat? I've got an issue w adipose and looking for solutions...your comments make sense to me and I was wondering about your dosage and scheduling. You've stopped testicle app? Do you think there is a role for progesterone to play here? Thanks!!

 

[milk_lover]

Like this...
How is it going for you? Still losing fat? I've got an issue w adipose and looking for solutions...your comments make sense to me and I was wondering about your dosage and scheduling. You've stopped testicle app? Do you think there is a role for progesterone to play here? Thanks!!

I am copying and pasting from a private message I wrote..
I quit taking T3 on testicles long time ago because I think it was either increasing my estrogen or progesterone too much because it gave me puffy nipples. In fact, I quit taking T3 by itself. Sometimes if I want to take thyroid, it would be a mixture of T3/T4 (tyromix), taken one drop at a time and orally.. Sometimes I take 3 or 4 drops throughout the day and it helps immensely with digestion and when digestion is good, I think the ratio of good hormones/bad hormones increase. As for the testicles application, I use 2 drops of K2, 2 drops of pansterone and that's it. No Andro needed because we don't really know what exactly Andro is doing to our hormones. And any time I do that combo (k2 and pansterone), I take one drop of tyromix with plenty of sugar and glycine+b1+b3 to reduce stress and increase thyroid so the DHEA in pansterone doesn't convert to estrogen. Hopefully that helps. I am still experimenting; I haven't perfected a protocol but I find what I have been doing the last couple of days is working. We shall see how it goes.

 

[Braveheart]

I am copying and pasting from a private message I wrote..
I quit taking T3 on testicles long time ago because I think it was either increasing my estrogen or progesterone too much because it gave me puffy nipples. In fact, I quit taking T3 by itself. Sometimes if I want to take thyroid, it would be a mixture of T3/T4 (tyromix), taken one drop at a time and orally.. Sometimes I take 3 or 4 drops throughout the day and it helps immensely with digestion and when digestion is good, I think the ratio of good hormones/bad hormones increase. As for the testicles application, I use 2 drops of K2, 2 drops of pansterone and that's it. No Andro needed because we don't really know what exactly Andro is doing to our hormones. And any time I do that combo (k2 and pansterone), I take one drop of tyromix with plenty of sugar and glycine+b1+b3 to reduce stress and increase thyroid so the DHEA in pansterone doesn't convert to estrogen. Hopefully that helps. I am still experimenting; I haven't perfected a protocol but I find what I have been doing the last couple of days is working. We shall see how it goes.

you are experimenting, all over the place...thought you were on track w the andro/k combo w preg/progest...now you are back w dhea?... what about your adipose/fat, weightloss? How were you using the preg/progest?

 

[A.R]

No I don't have PFS. I just react weird to steroids. The 1 mg progesterone and 11-keto seem to be causing some skin inflammation and hair fall. I'd like to experiment more in the future, maybe after raising my temps and getting my liver fixed up.

Have you taken/do you take k2mk4 and caffeine? Reacting bad to steroids like you mention, is because of liver health being compromised.

 

[Scenes]

Have you taken/do you take k2mk4 and caffeine? Reacting bad to steroids like you mention, is because of liver health being compromised.

This interests me...I've been told similar things regarding hormones.

I've trialled testosterone and progesterone together as they are both protective, peat approved and should provide a great balance of test/progesterone and lowered estrogen.

Unfortunately, all sorts of weird things happen that led me to stop. I was told it was because I need to get my liver and bowels working first. Bowels are good, liver I have no idea...how do we know?

And on the caffeine k2 combo...are you supposed to take them together and if so, in what ratio? How much of each?

 

[Scenes]

No I don't have PFS. I just react weird to steroids. The 1 mg progesterone and 11-keto seem to be causing some skin inflammation and hair fall. I'd like to experiment more in the future, maybe after raising my temps and getting my liver fixed up.

I think I found a similar thing though I didn't go long enough to know for sure. Androsterone plus progesterone together seemed to make my skin look a little inflamed and aged. Hair looked thinner too.

Thing that confuses me is that everyone on bodybuilding boards acknowledges DHT based steroids or any heavy androgens (including testosterone) age your skin terribly, but on this forum we keep presenting DHT/11 keto dht as protective and beneficial for skin...it can't be both!!

 

[milk_lover]

you are experimenting, all over the place...thought you were on track w the andro/k combo w preg/progest...now you are back w dhea?... what about your adipose/fat, weightloss? How were you using the preg/progest?

lool that's the story of my life. I am never consistent with those experiments. I like to make changes when I feel something is off. But to answer your question, I thought I was on track but for some reason, progesterone, while it gives some positive stuff like silky hair and glowing skin, was making my balls shrink. I didn't like that. The Andro is still a good choice and I might return to it at some point, but maybe it was increasing my metabolism so much that I started to have some puffy nipples. So I am always in constant change and experimenting. Nothing is fixed. Dynamic the word I am trying to use here. But for the weight loss, no, I still haven't noticed big changes to comment on any of those various protocols.

 

[Braveheart]

lool that's the story of my life. I am never consistent with those experiments. I like to make changes when I feel something is off. But to answer your question, I thought I was on track but for some reason, progesterone, while it gives some positive stuff like silky hair and glowing skin, was making my balls shrink. I didn't like that. The Andro is still a good choice and I might return to it at some point, but maybe it was increasing my metabolism so much that I started to have some puffy nipples. So I am always in constant change and experimenting. Nothing is fixed. Dynamic the word I am trying to use here. But for the weight loss, no, I still haven't noticed big changes to comment on any of those various protocols.

Thanks! Yes we are all so different and react differently...lots of variables and definitely many opportunities for experimentation...and causes for confusion, if not careful. I have fared well with my little experimentation, so far, and think I'm still in control, mainly due to my low dosages. Don't do thyroid. Currently interested in my adipose and how it affects everything I do...really want to get rid of it...so in researching came across your comments and and Haiduts' solution "Pregnenolone/progesterone alone or together, and some androsterone should do the trick." So, tried Andro/K 1 drop each on the jewels and Stressnon/Progestine 1 on each wrist...and it feels better than anything I've done before... by far...too early obviously to see visual improvement in adiposty but have the feeling that will come. Thanks again for your reply and good luck w your experiments.

 

[milk_lover]

Thanks! Yes we are all so different and react differently...lots of variables and definitely many opportunities for experimentation...and causes for confusion, if not careful. I have fared well with my little experimentation, so far, and think I'm still in control, mainly due to my low dosages. Don't do thyroid. Currently interested in my adipose and how it affects everything I do...really want to get rid of it...so in researching came across your comments and and Haiduts' solution "Pregnenolone/progesterone alone or together, and some androsterone should do the trick." So, tried Andro/K 1 drop each on the jewels and Stressnon/Progestine 1 on each wrist...and it feels better than anything I've done before... by far...too early obviously to see visual improvement in adiposty but have the feeling that will come. Thanks again for your reply and good luck w your experiments.

Thanks and good luck in your experiments too lool. I like the term jewels I am going to steal it. And what you are doing, I think, is the safest in terms of estrogen hazard because none of them, if taken in small amounts to avoid stress, converts to estrogen as far as I know.. Thyroid is a very tricky business and I am honestly tired of experimenting with it because it has always given me mixed results, maybe this is a hint I may not need thyroid because actually I can do fine without any thyroid supplements.. Ray has told me in principle shining red light on neck can increase thyroid secretion but he's doubtful if it will give any big results.. But that's the key, I don't need big results when it comes to thyroid and raising metabolism very high as that sometimes work against me with tools like caffeine, aspirin, progesterone, andro, etc... I think @tyler has reported good benefits from red light on thyroid but he then introduced thyroid later and got positive results from it in terms of mental state mostly I think. So in the spirit of bzmazu, I may try some K2 (did you mean K2 not K1? right?) and andro on my jewels tonight and see how it goes. No pansterone tonight.. See how irrational and inconsistent I am with those experiments? :)

 

[milk_lover]

Oh 1 drop.. my bad. @bzmazu I think we are talking about the same k!

 

[Braveheart]

I felt so positive, so confident, so clear headed and so energetic that I did not take the planned evening dose for fear of being awake all night...good sleep for me is the ultimate drug. Anyway, I attribute this positive change to dropping the Pansterone and substituting the Stressnon/Progestine. I was doing great before but there was a hint of depression and my morning after awakening was still slightly stressful. These negatives are all gone on this new anti adipose regimen...happy to say the least...off to do my morning application even though I feel yesterdays app/benefits have carried over into this morning.

 

[A.R]

This interests me...I've been told similar things regarding hormones.

I've trialled testosterone and progesterone together as they are both protective, peat approved and should provide a great balance of test/progesterone and lowered estrogen.

Unfortunately, all sorts of weird things happen that led me to stop. I was told it was because I need to get my liver and bowels working first. Bowels are good, liver I have no idea...how do we know?

And on the caffeine k2 combo...are you supposed to take them together and if so, in what ratio? How much of each?

If you search the forum you will find good information. Caffeine should be started very low dose to build tolerance, and the vitamin k2 should be the menatetrenone version.

 

[milk_lover]

I felt so positive, so confident, so clear headed and so energetic that I did not take the planned evening dose for fear of being awake all night...good sleep for me is the ultimate drug. Anyway, I attribute this positive change to dropping the Pansterone and substituting the Stressnon/Progestine. I was doing great before but there was a hint of depression and my morning after awakening was still slightly stressful. These negatives are all gone on this new anti adipose regimen...happy to say the least...off to do my morning application even though I feel yesterdays app/benefits have carried over into this morning.

Oh that's great to hear! I will report back on a similar experiment..

 

[ddjd]

Given progesterone's well-known anti-androgenic effects

Have you seen haiduts recent post about why Progesterone is androgenic? Thoughts?