Hair Loss Talk

[mayweatherking]

This thread deviated quite a lot from the OP but anyway

The debate about LLLT being effective for hair loss or not is largely irrelevant. Hair loss is not the roots problem but a manifestation of a cohort of root problems... so why one would want to use red light and LLLT is not primarily for hair loss but because as Haidut and many others pointed out;

Red light does dissociate NO from Cytochrome C Oxidase -> which will carry electron to completion -> which will restore oxidative metabolism and
LLLT synthesize new Cytochrome C Oxidase

you can learn quite a lot about the negative interaction between NO and Cytochrome C and the wide array of negative effect on overall metabolism just by searching for the two on google.

As for D. Roddy talking about thyroid, I don't think I've read anything from him stating: Take thyroid and bam!!! full head of hair...
If your body (the cells) are not able to uptake thyroid hormones then taking it (or any surrogate) won't help.

Cells form tissue, tissue form organs and organs form organism might be IMO the most importance sentence you have to remember in regard to biology.

As for the no-fap, come on! Healthy masturbation is probably not a problem, it's excessive masturbation that elevate prolactin, estrogen, stress, etc. Masturbation is quite a one sided experience that involve yourself and probably a screen... no physical or emotional feedback whatsoever. Which has nothing to be compare with sex which hopefully involve love, dopamine, human contact, etc...

true.. i meant with all the other factors, he recommends a tsh below 1.. but yes, he has MANY other things he recommends, but i think they wont work if you dont do the thyroid as i'm finding out myself.

as for nofap... yes, the dopamine release from being with a real person i think offsets the prolactin upsurge, but i know for a fact personally without a shadow of a doubt, that the MPB itch WILL show up if i orgasm. however, i have other issues I am dealing with obviously.. (fungus, allergies, etc), but i'm saying, i know from personal experience, i will get the itch from it, i don't know the mechanism, but it is related somehow, albiet not the "root cause", but to me it seems like the final line after you all ready have lower nutirition, poor thyroid, low light, etc.

 

[mayweatherking]

“Over a period of several years, I never saw a person whose TSH was over 2 microIU/ml who was comfortably healthy, and I formed the impression that the normal, or healthy, quantity was probably something less than 1.0.”[1]

1. TSH, temperature, pulse rate, and other indicators in hypothyroidism by Raymond Peat (2007)

if you can push it below 1 without thyroid, it is good, but i think it is difficult without thyroid?

@tara i think i told you about this quote, but i could never find it, i forgot the post where i told you about it, but there it is

 

[Elephanto]

i don't think so man... he definitely had hair loss for sure. you can't tell just by looking at him at face value, but you can tell for sure by looking at him in certain angles that he has had hair loss and minor recession that has been stopped. same with ray peat... he has had hair loss, but he stopped it completely. you think hair just recedes, then stops, i don't buy that.

just because he hasn't had hair loss recession, doesn't mean he didn't have hair loss. myself, I have had serious hair loss recession, but it doesn't look like it based on the length of my hair. it's the same with him, he keeps it at a certain length to stop it from showing.

when TSH is below 1, i think his point is that his body it utilizing all the magnesium and calcium he's putting into it and his metabolism is in full gear. i think he's saying it's necessary if you all ready have MPB.. you have to do it to stop it.

i don't know about the soccer guy. although if he's outside all the time.. his prolactin is probably pretty low.

Peat had a full head of hair in his 50's and has lost a considerable amount since then. He never "stopped" his hair loss, basically when he changed his diet to be milk-heavy is when he lost more and his skull grew more. Taking him as an example that he reverted recession is ridiculous, and he was hypothyroid for most of his life so surely he would have lost all his hair by the time he was 30.

Your excuse about Ronaldo is because he had enough vitamin D, so basically you admit it has nothing to do with being hypothyroid. There are many hypothyroid men and women who never lost hair in mpb fashion. Mpb is way more of a estrogen and adrenaline thing, and it's actually hard to trigger adrenaline when you're so low energy/hypothyroid.

 

[mayweatherking]

Peat had a full head of hair in his 50's and has lost a considerable amount since then. He never "stopped" his hair loss, basically when he changed his diet to be milk-heavy is when he lost more and his skull grew more. Taking him as an example that he reverted recession is ridiculous, and he was hypothyroid for most of his life so surely he would have lost all his hair by the time he was 30.

Your excuse about Ronaldo is because he had enough vitamin D, so basically you admit it has nothing to do with being hypothyroid. There are many hypothyroid men and women who never lost hair in mpb fashion. Mpb is way more of a estrogen and adrenaline thing, and it's actually hard to trigger adrenaline when you're so low energy/hypothyroid.

okay... so you are saying it's impossible to fix? do you have it yourself?

it looks like he has stopped recession completely. do you know the circumstances of when he lost it? what if he started doing the diet because he had hair loss and lost his metabolism that's why he drank milk. it sounds like you are saying eating a peat diet will cause hair loss.... ?

light doesn't just increase your vitamin D... it also has a big part in anti inflammation, with all the red light discussion around here and lowering prolactin significantly. look i'm not any expert to be honest, everyone knows i have really bad hair loss and i have been fighting it, but i also have never been able to get all my labs in order in the way roddy recommends, but i am getting close now and i do notice a much less "itch" on my head more recently from doing things like increasing my cholesterol and vitamin D.

 

[mayweatherking]

i will agree though... it is odd peat doesnt like talking about hair loss at all.... i'm not sure what he's hiding about it, it's clear he's had to of done research into it, but he refuses to respond to emails to talk about it

 

[Elephanto]

Milk consumption is linked with prostate cancer. You should research about prostate cancer, things that are protective against it usually help hair very much. Vitamin e, selenium, zinc, taurine, magnesium, broccoli consumption, decreasing choline and omega6 intake. The theory behind a Peat diet is supportive, but using large quantities of milk is definitely detrimental. Or like drinking 2 quarts of orange juice; citrus fruits are known histamine triggers and histamine is also involved in mpb.

and yes I was a bit reductionist with my "vitamin D" comment. Light is good for other reasons like decreasing stress. But then I know a shitload of people on SSRI that have no recession, so serotonin (which increase prolactin) is probably not a big player. and prostate cancer is linked with low melatonin, which would not happen in high serotonin people because it is a precursor of melatonin; so if anything it might be protective for this sole aspect.

I think for me the itch disappeared when I cut out Pufa, and yes I did have it at like 18, went on fin, quit about 3 years ago and now I most likely stopped it and also have super thick hair by improving my hormonal profile and taking a few supps (search for ultimate hair loss protocol on google; most supps on that list helped me). But I haven't had serious hairline regrowth.

 

[m_arch]

i'm not saying you have to do it.. but i'm saying it's probably the most natural way to stop it. without a doubt, the mpb "itch" is related to orgasms, if other systems are offline. like it's the last factor that will make your hair loss fall out if you all ready have all the steps leading to it being a problem. i can stop the "itch" if i do nofap for a few weeks. you can read on www.reddit.com/r/nofap and search hair and you will see all the things people say from it. i don't know if it's zinc, but it could be other things as well.

Oh my god say it aint so. By nofap does it mean not having sex either? I had sex this morning and I had the itch for about 4 hours this morning.

 

[m_arch]

Peat had a full head of hair in his 50's and has lost a considerable amount since then. He never "stopped" his hair loss, basically when he changed his diet to be milk-heavy is when he lost more and his skull grew more. Taking him as an example that he reverted recession is ridiculous, and he was hypothyroid for most of his life so surely he would have lost all his hair by the time he was 30.

Your excuse about Ronaldo is because he had enough vitamin D, so basically you admit it has nothing to do with being hypothyroid. There are many hypothyroid men and women who never lost hair in mpb fashion. Mpb is way more of a estrogen and adrenaline thing, and it's actually hard to trigger adrenaline when you're so low energy/hypothyroid.

What was his diet like before milk heavy?

 

[m_arch]

okay... so you are saying it's impossible to fix? do you have it yourself?

it looks like he has stopped recession completely. do you know the circumstances of when he lost it? what if he started doing the diet because he had hair loss and lost his metabolism that's why he drank milk. it sounds like you are saying eating a peat diet will cause hair loss.... ?

light doesn't just increase your vitamin D... it also has a big part in anti inflammation, with all the red light discussion around here and lowering prolactin significantly. look i'm not any expert to be honest, everyone knows i have really bad hair loss and i have been fighting it, but i also have never been able to get all my labs in order in the way roddy recommends, but i am getting close now and i do notice a much less "itch" on my head more recently from doing things like increasing my cholesterol and vitamin D.

How'd you increase cholestrol? sugar?

 

[mayweatherking]

Milk consumption is linked with prostate cancer. You should research about prostate cancer, things that are protective against it usually help hair very much. Vitamin e, selenium, zinc, taurine, magnesium, broccoli consumption, decreasing choline and omega6 intake. The theory behind a Peat diet is supportive, but using large quantities of milk is definitely detrimental. Or like drinking 2 quarts of orange juice; citrus fruits are known histamine triggers and histamine is also involved in mpb.

and yes I was a bit reductionist with my "vitamin D" comment. Light is good for other reasons like decreasing stress. But then I know a shitload of people on SSRI that have no recession, so serotonin (which increase prolactin) is probably not a big player. and prostate cancer is linked with low melatonin, which would not happen in high serotonin people because it is a precursor of melatonin; so if anything it might be protective for this sole aspect.

I think for me the itch disappeared when I cut out Pufa, and yes I did have it at like 18, went on fin, quit about 3 years ago and now I most likely stopped it and also have super thick hair by improving my hormonal profile and taking a few supps (search for ultimate hair loss protocol on google; most supps on that list helped me). But I haven't had serious hairline regrowth.

okay.... well that is going against everything in this forum pretty much, i dont know, i pretty much have jumped on their bandwagon around here, i notice though zinc and mag are important to handle milk thogh for sure. interesting you were on fin too.

yeah i dont see hairline regrowth anywhere. actually, over at immortal hair, there are a few, but the methods are a little extreme and not really proven, but maybe 2 people have done it.

Oh my god say it aint so. By nofap does it mean not having sex either? I had sex this morning and I had the itch for about 4 hours this morning.

pretty much... not sure of the reason though behind it...... i think it's releated to stresing an all ready stressed body. i dk though.

How'd you increase cholestrol? sugar?

pretty much. i was on thyroid and my cholesterol never really tipped over 200. then randomly i started eating regular oranges and my hunger kind of exploded and i was adding sugar to milk. i got off thyroid and was eating how i was while on thyroid still.. my cholesterol went up to like 220 or 230 (i was getting it tested like every week or two) and i gained like 20 lbs throughotu my body... i weigh 170 now... its kinda crazy, ive always been around 150. but i dont look fat or different, i still look skinny, but my veins in my arms arent as visible as they used to be. its cool.

 

[m_arch]

(search for ultimate hair loss protocol on google; most supps on that list helped me). But I haven't had serious hairline regrowth.

Its an interesting list.
I guess magnesium, oysters, brazil nuts, niacinamide, k2, vitamin e, taurine and baking soda are pretty peat-like. I hadn't heard of nizoral before.

The theory doesn't account why women don't get baldness though... I guess Peats does in that progesterone is protective

 

[Elephanto]

okay.... well that is going against everything in this forum pretty much

I disagree, my diet/approach agrees with 99.9% of the theory cited in Peat's works. But I did my own research on cancer in general, there are key genes like VEGF, IGF1, IGFBP3, akt, il-6, that Peat doesn't mention often but finding things that impact IGFBP3 for instance matches with all of his theory (like ingesting saturated fat will increase this cancer-restricting gene but pufa do exactly the opposite). FYI the IGF1:IGFBP3 ratio was found to be a strong predictor of early mpb. So minimizing IGF1 and maximizing IGFBP3 should be the main strategy.

Like Peat :
-no starch and a focus on minimizing endotoxin
-liberal use of sugar
-low fat in carbs-heavy meal
-pufa avoidance
-histamine, choline avoidance
-use of protective saturated fat
-a focus on estrogen minimizing, phytoestrogen avoidance
-a focus on protein intake
-bad amino acids restriction
-nitric oxide (super important in male hair loss, promoted by endotoxin, infinitely more impactful than thyroid malfunction) ; avoidance of nitrate-rich food
-avoiding stress, strenous exercise

I'd argue that his own theory doesn't correlate with some of his diet choices imo; but I don't care to criticize him just offer a point of view based on mpb. The thing with Roddy is he thinks he found the complete answer from Peat's works but Peat is no God, he can't have all the knowledge about mpb and if he did, then his hair wouldn't look like that. In my case the missing piece to this puzzle was zinc deficiency and copper toxicity. Peat doesn't care about copper toxicity, yet it is commonly found high in prostate and breast cancer. If a mineral is found high in a specific type of cancer, estrogen-driven in this case, then it must be very impactful on the whole organism. a simple detail like that may define your hormonal profile, cancer risk, life quality and your whole personality, really.

 

[Elephanto]

Its an interesting list.
I guess magnesium, oysters, brazil nuts, niacinamide, k2, vitamin e, taurine and baking soda are pretty peat-like. I hadn't heard of nizoral before.

The theory doesn't account why women don't get baldness though... I guess Peats does in that progesterone is protective

Because they have a ***t ton less of androgens. Finasteride would be 100% ineffective if androgens didn't play a role in mpb. Besides there are many studies that show mechanisms where androgens would promote this, and from the protocol list vitamin e, cayenne pepper, selenium all reduce the androgen receptor. Keeping good insulin sensitivity also greatly reduces androgens (see the link with PCOS and diabetes) by increasing SHBG yet no one will argue that this diminished androgen receptor activity is problematic for health.

My own theory is that you can be either androgenic or estrogenic but you can't have both. That's why you'll see some super androgenic men with perfect hair; and some super estrogenic skinnyfat men with no hair loss either. But if you combine both, like in old men generally, it is unavoidable.

 

[m_arch]

Because they have a **** ton less of androgens. Finasteride would be 100% ineffective if androgens didn't play a role in mpb. Besides there are many studies that show mechanisms where androgens would promote this, and from the protocol list vitamin e, cayenne pepper, selenium all reduce the androgen receptor. Keeping good insulin sensitivity also greatly reduces androgens (see the link with PCOS and diabetes) by increasing SHBG yet no one will argue that this diminished androgen receptor activity is problematic for health.

My own theory is that you can be either androgenic or estrogenic but you can't have both. That's why you'll see some super androgenic men with perfect hair; and some super estrogenic skinnyfat men with no hair loss either. But if you combine both, like in old men generally, it is unavoidable.

What if you start putting vitamin E on your scalp to reduce androgens and reduce estrogens through diet and high metabolism? Theoretically you'd have an androgen and estrogen free head. Lots of hair?

 

[m_arch]

I disagree, my diet/approach agrees with 99.9% of the theory cited in Peat's works. But I did my own research on cancer in general, there are key genes like VEGF, IGF1, IGFBP3, akt, il-6, that Peat doesn't mention often but finding things that impact IGFBP3 for instance matches with all of his theory (like ingesting saturated fat will increase this cancer-restricting gene but pufa do exactly the opposite). FYI the IGF1:IGFBP3 ratio was found to be a strong predictor of early mpb. So minimizing IGF1 and maximizing IGFBP3 should be the main strategy.

Like Peat :
-no starch and a focus on minimizing endotoxin
-liberal use of sugar
-low fat in carbs-heavy meal
-pufa avoidance
-histamine, choline avoidance
-use of protective saturated fat
-a focus on estrogen minimizing, phytoestrogen avoidance
-a focus on protein intake
-bad amino acids restriction
-nitric oxide (super important in male hair loss, promoted by endotoxin, infinitely more impactful than thyroid malfunction) ; avoidance of nitrate-rich food
-avoiding stress, strenous exercise

I'd argue that his own theory doesn't correlate with some of his diet choices imo; but I don't care to criticize him just offer a point of view based on mpb. The thing with Roddy is he thinks he found the complete answer from Peat's works but Peat is no God, he can't have all the knowledge about mpb and if he did, then his hair wouldn't look like that. In my case the missing piece to this puzzle was zinc deficiency and copper toxicity. Peat doesn't care about copper toxicity, yet it is commonly found high in prostate and breast cancer. If a mineral is found high in a specific type of cancer, estrogen-driven in this case, then it must be very impactful on the whole organism. a simple detail like that may define your hormonal profile, cancer risk, life quality and your whole personality, really.

What kind of food consumption choices do you have?

 

[Kasper]

I disagree, my diet/approach agrees with 99.9% of the theory cited in Peat's works. But I did my own research on cancer in general, there are key genes like VEGF, IGF1, IGFBP3, akt, il-6, that Peat doesn't mention often but finding things that impact IGFBP3 for instance matches with all of his theory (like ingesting saturated fat will increase this cancer-restricting gene but pufa do exactly the opposite). FYI the IGF1:IGFBP3 ratio was found to be a strong predictor of early mpb. So minimizing IGF1 and maximizing IGFBP3 should be the main strategy.

Like Peat :
-no starch and a focus on minimizing endotoxin
-liberal use of sugar
-low fat in carbs-heavy meal
-pufa avoidance
-histamine, choline avoidance
-use of protective saturated fat
-a focus on estrogen minimizing, phytoestrogen avoidance
-a focus on protein intake
-bad amino acids restriction
-nitric oxide (super important in male hair loss, promoted by endotoxin, infinitely more impactful than thyroid malfunction) ; avoidance of nitrate-rich food
-avoiding stress, strenous exercise

I'd argue that his own theory doesn't correlate with some of his diet choices imo; but I don't care to criticize him just offer a point of view based on mpb. The thing with Roddy is he thinks he found the complete answer from Peat's works but Peat is no God, he can't have all the knowledge about mpb and if he did, then his hair wouldn't look like that. In my case the missing piece to this puzzle was zinc deficiency and copper toxicity. Peat doesn't care about copper toxicity, yet it is commonly found high in prostate and breast cancer. If a mineral is found high in a specific type of cancer, estrogen-driven in this case, then it must be very impactful on the whole organism. a simple detail like that may define your hormonal profile, cancer risk, life quality and your whole personality, really.

I think Peat said that copper toxicity comes from inflammation not from copper rich food.

 

[sladerunner69]

My hairline was perfect when I was on all my supplements. Niacinamide, thiamine, and biotin will all prevent hypoxia and excess lactic acid production, which will allow oxygen and nutrients to get to the follicle.

Do you think store bought supplements are just as good or do you special order everything form thorne or some premium manufacturer?

 

[DaveFoster]

Do you think store bought supplements are just as good or do you special order everything form thorne or some premium manufacturer?

Usually amazon with limited amount of excipients. I get my amino acids from PowderCity.

I think it's important to not irritate the gut, though. Any benefit of a supplement may be mitigated if it irritates the intestine.

 

[lexis]

Aromatase expression in hair follicles could be the cause of hair loss

 

[sladerunner69]

i know many on this forum will not like some of the ingredients but i have been using the caffeine liquid (Alpecin) and i added 4g of taurine to the 200ml bottle
havnt got before and afters but im 100% sure its having a positive effect after just a few weeks

Do you eat mostly peat? If so, how did you manage to get that exceptionally lean? Eating very low fat?