Young Men And Clashing With Mature Women

[Herbie]

Hello,

I've come across information on the forum about when young androgenic men clash with mature women with elevated estrogen and or on SSRI drugs and I experience this in my personal life and I think it would help if we could discuss this issue and seek some clarity as to what is going on in order for people to foresee and prevent altercations in communication in family and in work environments.

My personal experience is that these women are expressing a personality of authority, dominance, control, manipulative, patronising, condescending, passive aggressiveness, stubbornness, lack of empathy and compassion, inability to admit fault, inability to apologise, inability to express gratitude.

If this behaviour is expressed towards me I react strongly with aggressiveness and full adrenaline reaction as if I am under great threat and has occurred even if I am using progesterone and taking aspirin. I tend to get 'gas lighted' for my behaviour. This does not happen to me with men of all ages or young women healthy women.

I think it would be beneficial if we can speak about what is happening on a biological level and how to communicate with these kinds of women for the peace and harmony of humanity. I think it has to do with young androgenic men being dominant themselves and not wanting to submit and these women getting used to less androgenic men in society.

Perhaps people with greater knowledge and or experience could chime in.

 

[schultz]

Interesting topic. I'm looking forward to the responses.

 

[Dhair]

Hello,

I've come across information on the forum about when young androgenic men clash with mature women with elevated estrogen and or on SSRI drugs and I experience this in my personal life and I think it would help if we could discuss this issue and seek some clarity as to what is going on in order for people to foresee and prevent altercations in communication in family and in work environments.

My personal experience is that these women are expressing a personality of authority, dominance, control, manipulative, patronising, condescending, passive aggressiveness, stubbornness, lack of empathy and compassion, inability to admit fault, inability to apologise, inability to express gratitude.

If this behaviour is expressed towards me I react strongly with aggressiveness and full adrenaline reaction as if I am under great threat and has occurred even if I am using progesterone and taking aspirin. I tend to get 'gas lighted' for my behaviour. This does not happen to me with men of all ages or young women healthy women.

I think it would be beneficial if we can speak about what is happening on a biological level and how to communicate with these kinds of women for the peace and harmony of humanity. I think it has to do with young androgenic men being dominant themselves and not wanting to submit and these women getting used to less androgenic men in society.

Perhaps people with greater knowledge could chime in.

I personally have never been able to handle having a female boss. I see women behaving in the way you describe in the workplace more often than not. I believe that many women try to emulate how a "strong" man acts in the workplace, and I think their perception of this archetype is entirely one dimensional. I think it's partially what is portrayed in the media, but it's also massive insecurity.
A strong man doesn't have a psychotic, authoritarian desire to dominate at all costs. He recognises that helping his employees/coworkers to become something greater will pay dividends in the long run. Because the type of women that we're talking about can't grasp the full responsibility of their position, they inevitably aggravate an already volatile situation.
I think a woman's declining sexual market value can cause learned helpless, but I think this is also partially cultural.

 

[fradon]

Hello,

I've come across information on the forum about when young androgenic men clash with mature women with elevated estrogen and or on SSRI drugs and I experience this in my personal life and I think it would help if we could discuss this issue and seek some clarity as to what is going on in order for people to foresee and prevent altercations in communication in family and in work environments.

My personal experience is that these women are expressing a personality of authority, dominance, control, manipulative, patronising, condescending, passive aggressiveness, stubbornness, lack of empathy and compassion, inability to admit fault, inability to apologise, inability to express gratitude.

If this behaviour is expressed towards me I react strongly with aggressiveness and full adrenaline reaction as if I am under great threat and has occurred even if I am using progesterone and taking aspirin. I tend to get 'gas lighted' for my behaviour. This does not happen to me with men of all ages or young women healthy women.

I think it would be beneficial if we can speak about what is happening on a biological level and how to communicate with these kinds of women for the peace and harmony of humanity. I think it has to do with young androgenic men being dominant themselves and not wanting to submit and these women getting used to less androgenic men in society.

Perhaps people with greater knowledge and or experience could chime in.

well to correct you there a bit but mature women would not be high in estrogen they would have lower estrogen with a slight high testosterone women become more manly as they age just look at their jaw line. this can make older women into cranky B's

the women you are talking about show signs of borderline/narcissist personality which seems to be getting more and more common these days with women. I read the other day that autism is comparable to being the extreme male brain but BORDERLINE PERSONALTY is said to be the extreme FEMALE BRAIN.

you acting aggressively is a sign of LOW T. because you are acting emotionally. high T would make you act somewhat stoic and unemotional or unbothered. women will SH&T test you to see what type of male you are. which is what is happening to you. i see a lot of young men acting very emotional these days becasue of low T. even if they have big muscles it doesn't mean they are dominant. THINK OF FAST N THE FURIOUS DOM played by Vin Diesel is the dominant alpha he is very stoic and calm and hardly ever shows much emotion this is what a high T guy would be like. infact DOM'S name could be short of DOMINANT...(i know its domonic)

 

[YourUniverse]

Your post reminds me of a short Jordan Peterson clip:

 

[lvysaur]

you acting aggressively is a sign of LOW T.

I agree with this. But one should also not be a pushover. React assertively, not aggressively, but also don't back off submissively. Women are paper tigers when it comes to aggression, and in fact it's much worse for a man to react with aggression.

 

[Blossom]

Fair warning- I'm probably about to break a bunch of PC Culture rules.
Being one of those mature women myself I wonder if it's more of a societal issue than a hormonal one. I clash with quite a few mature women at work especially ones in positions of authority and don't really hang out with many women my age either for that matter. It's nothing against anyone I just seem to have different interests than most women my age.

It's hard for us to imagine now but not that long ago the majority of women didn't work outside the home unless the situation was dire. Now most women are expected to go out and compete in what has historically been a man's domain and we basically lost our homes and traditional roles all at the same time. I'm not saying it's good or bad one way or another I just think we are all trying to adjust to a situation that is a pretty recent and drastic change.
Many women where I work are trying to act like men because they have very few female role models. Women we see in the media are generally not role model material. So I think we as women have to figure out how to do things that are new to us that men have traditionally done for a long time but in our own uniquely feminine way.

The business world is so hurried that I think the easiest path has been to groom women to act more like men. We all know that the easiest path isn't always the best though. When I did supervisory work for a short stint I had no problem getting people of all ages both male and female to follow my lead but I noticed the people who got a big ego boost out of being boss or were insecure and overcompensating always failed. They let power go to their head, acted irrational and lost everyone's loyalty and respect.
I'm one of those women who would have been perfectly happy to be a stay at home mom and wife. Most of us don't have that choice or luxury nowadays. I've always tried to not take my frustrations from work out on my coworkers or family but I see quite a few women who struggle with this and take their frustrations out on anyone who crosses their path. Truth be told they probably would be better off not working or working in a less stressful environment.
I don't have any answers but I guess just try not to take things too personally. I know it's not good but if we could all try to understand each other a bit more and have some compassion for one another I think it would help.

 

[Tarmander]

Really interesting topic...

I have experienced this. I think it comes down to vanity really. Feeding their vanity a bit makes them very pliable. They will make exceptions for you and do other nice things for you. If you do something to point out incompetence, even without being purposeful, they can attack and try and put you down. I really think it does come down to vanity, ego, and their perceived spot on their hierarchy. Young men are like built in hierarchy challengers. They are always trying to rise and this probably leads to the stress and conflict you have mentioned.

Women are more neurotic, in general, and so I think it is very obvious from some women this type of behavior. The threat from young men is a very urgent threat. But I think men do it as well...it just is not as visible. I also think women hate these types of dominating women just as much as men.

 

[lvysaur]

Many women where I work are trying to act like men because they have very few female role models.

Also a good point. Reminiscent of how transwomen essentially act like men.

 

[Herbie]

well to correct you there a bit but mature women would not be high in estrogen they would have lower estrogen with a slight high testosterone women become more manly as they age just look at their jaw line. this can make older women into cranky B's

the women you are talking about show signs of borderline/narcissist personality which seems to be getting more and more common these days with women. I read the other day that autism is comparable to being the extreme male brain but BORDERLINE PERSONALTY is said to be the extreme FEMALE BRAIN.

you acting aggressively is a sign of LOW T. because you are acting emotionally. high T would make you act somewhat stoic and unemotional or unbothered. women will SH&T test you to see what type of male you are. which is what is happening to you. i see a lot of young men acting very emotional these days becasue of low T. even if they have big muscles it doesn't mean they are dominant. THINK OF FAST N THE FURIOUS DOM played by Vin Diesel is the dominant alpha he is very stoic and calm and hardly ever shows much emotion this is what a high T guy would be like. infact DOM'S name could be short of DOMINANT...(i know its domonic)

As far as I'm aware when women are under stress they can produce testosterone in the ovarys. I'm not sure if it's realistic to think mature people in general would have low estrogen.

When I think of vin diesel in fast and the furious I think he is highly emotional, angry, yelling, acting irrationally, not making well thought out and informed decisions but rather on emotion.

I'll think about the low T.

I understand ***t tests, I'm talking about real life changing stuff like making a company collapse or being outcast from family or something like that.

 

[AretnaP]

paper tigers

What?

 

[Herbie]

I personally have never been able to handle having a female boss. I see women behaving in the way you describe in the workplace more often than not. I believe that many women try to emulate how a "strong" man acts in the workplace, and I think their perception of this archetype is entirely one dimensional. I think it's partially what is portrayed in the media, but it's also massive insecurity.
A strong man doesn't have a psychotic, authoritarian desire to dominate at all costs. He recognises that helping his employees/coworkers to become something greater will pay dividends in the long run. Because the type of women that we're talking about can't grasp the full responsibility of their position, they inevitably aggravate an already volatile situation.
I think a woman's declining sexual market value can cause learned helpless, but I think this is also partially cultural.

I think the problem in the work place is that men created it for men and women are adapting to the environment which is not working very well for anyone and need to make a work environment adapted to them as women, I'm opening Pandora's box though.

 

[Blossom]

I think the problem in the work place is that men created it for men and women are adapting to the environment which is not working very well for anyone and need to make a work environment adapted to them as women, I'm opening Pandora's box though.

That's exactly what I was getting at but you explained it much better.

 

[Herbie]

Your post reminds me of a short Jordan Peterson clip:

Yeah and it's dangerous because if they figure out how much power they have because as soon as you lay a finger your in prison as a man.

 

[Herbie]

That's exactly what I was getting at but you explained it much better.

I read your post just now and realized that's what you were saying, It is a conundrum we are in because do women and men separate and do women go off and create their own work places but I guess we go back to family homes and we should disquish between women and mothers.

 

[lampofred]

I think this is an issue of cultural perception rather than of any "hormonal problem" with older women. Most female bosses are doing to their best to be what society portrays as a strong leader. But unfortunately, society has painted a very degraded picture of strength as
domineering, controlling, aggressive, animalistic, and authoritarian, instead of the calm, rational, and laid-back confidence that it truly is.

 

[lvysaur]

What?

I mean that female aggression never leads to physical consequences. As for fake claims of harrassment, keep a recorder on you at all times. There are discreet voice activated ones that don't have to be on all the time.

Check your state laws to make sure recording someone's audio unconsensually is legal.

 

[DaveFoster]

I mean that female aggression never leads to physical consequences.

"...in general, women and men perpetrate equivalent levels of physical and psychological aggression, but evidence suggests that men perpetrate sexual abuse, coercive control, and stalking more frequently than women and that women also are much more frequently injured during domestic violence incidents..."

Reference: A Review of Research on Women’s Use of Violence With Male Intimate Partners

 

[Glassy]

Some people are grumpy bastards and I see it in both males and females relatively equally. They walk around with sour faces and seem put out by your very presence. I find grumpy old men are more obsessed about themselves and either are too self absorbed or think that they’re beyond acknowledging the likes of me. Grumpy old women on the other hand seem more obsessed about everything that is going on around them and tend to want to meddle more.

Very few people in general confront me possibly because I’m a big guy and don’t give them reason to. I’ve been taking 11ketoDHT after a short stint of taking androsterone. I applied the androsterone on my neck, wrists and scrotum and didn’t experience any positive or negative reactions (maybe I walk too fast to allow the smell to reach them). I’ve noticed I get more cheeky glances and smiles from woman of breeding age recently but that could be because I am a little more confident and I’m less likely to avoid eye contact. I’ve noticed people looking at me but again that might just be because I’m more interested in those around me. Overall I can’t say I’ve noticed any different behaviour occurring because of my hormonal odours and I catch the train so have lots of random encounters.

I’ve had many female bosses and male bosses. Again I’ve had good male and female bosses and some horrendous male and female bosses. The worst bosses are the ones who feel insecure in their ability to lead or provide input into what I do. They’re generally the ones who feel the need to make poorly thought out decisions to quickly assert their authority and cover their insecurities. I think the demeanour the individual has towards you is more indicative of the interactions they’ve had with individuals that they perceive as being the same as you (I know your type lol). People make judgements of you quickly based on very little data then treat you accordingly. I usually prefer male bosses but that’s because as a bloke I find it easier to relate to them.

 

[Sobieski]

The good leaders are good leaders because people WANT to follow them. The genuine alphas of a group that have people's loyalty are often very friendly and everyone likes them. They impose their authority with a combination of competence, charisma and of course help from dominant traits (height, structure etc).