Will To Power

yerrag

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I'm having to think a few more things lately, as I try to put together the many discussions in these threads, as well as reading on Ray Peat's thoughts. I don't know if I'm getting clearer with these thoughts, or whether it's getting more murky as I dwelve deeper into these things.

A lot of these thoughts has to do with having the staying power, just like the Eveready battery that keeps "going on and on." If the battery in use lasts longer, it can eke out the extra something that makes a difference. Although the battery is just a physical metaphor, the analogy can be extended to our mind. How come when there are some people who can haggle and get a good bargain? How come some people are just so persistent they refuse to take no for an answer and get their way all or most of the time? How are some people so impossibly optimistic yet you are just amazed that impossible ends up always not in their vocabulary? There is something to be said about having the will to power. We can talk about Napoleon Bonaparte, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Queen Elizabeth, Julius Cesar, and the great conquests. We can also think about the ones who came close, but just lacked the will to finish it. For this, I think about Hannibal, who as mighty and feared a general, when at Rome's gates, could have made Rome fall, decided to walk away from it.

On a more domestic front, I observe my sisters and my brothers-in-law. All my married sisters seem to have this strong will in them. Truth to tell, I get exhausted when I get together with them. I observed my in-laws, and I can see they're not different from me. The years have worn them down, and they have become very acquiescent to their spouses and don't really care much about expressing their opinion. In short, they've realized its best to just let my sisters run the show, and then life would be much more peaceful.

I hope I'm not being misogynistic in stating this observation. I'm just thinking about the hormones and the lack thereof that could probably shape this dynamic. Recently I got to use some progesterone from haidut called Progestene. It was my first use of a hormone, and I felt I had a kind of staying power, a stronger battery or motor, and I found myself being more present in what I was doing, and even taking in and doing what's in store for tomorrow. I just wasn't procrastinating. I just felt I could just get these things done now, and I wasn't counting the cost of it. I wasn't thinking things like "don't be a workaholic" or "why not take a break, tomorrow can wait," or "it's too troublesome." Then I read a thread about someone microdosing on LSD, and he's able to sort of see the leaves of the tiny branch of a twig of a tree, to such detail and precision as he crafts out an elaborate plan. Then I like think "wow," if everything is just effortless to him, and he didn't have to struggle through it, nor even get stressed about it, it would be like a cakewalk for him where everyone else would be flabbergasted.

So back to my sisters. Is it possible that they have more progesterone than me and my bros-in-laws? What if I do an experiment with my in-laws by secretly dabbling them some Progestene daily? What would it be like to see my sisters wake up to a new spouse? And I'm not even talking about microdosing them any LSD.
 

Integra

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Haha... Your family situation is funny. While I feel for your bros-in-laws, I'd recommend you not giving them any hormones or psychoactive substances without their knowledge. While you might get empowered men who shook off their learned helplessness and stood back against the progesterone-fueled tyrants in the family, it's also possible you end up with an enraged group of men because "how dare you do as you want, things were fine as they were," etc. If it took your bros years to bow down to the strong-willed (aka tyrannical) women in the family, you can bet that they rationalized their choices somehow, which would render your attempts to change their ways illogical or even harmful in their eyes.
 

Integra

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All my married sisters seem to have this strong will in them. Truth to tell, I get exhausted when I get together with them. I observed my in-laws, and I can see they're not different from me.

I just wanted to point out that enthusiasm is pleasant and contagious. Having someone with a strong zest for life around you should feel good (yes, that's how strongly I feel about this statement). If it doesn't, if you feel exhausted by their energy, it's probably something else, not will, that they are exhibiting. Those who lack personal power, a sense of their own significance and a confidence to do things and be true to themselves, will look for power over others. In a very mild form, this can appear as passive-aggressive bickering, nagging, lecturing, incessant "rational" arguing for one's way of doing things, etc...
 

Integra

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I don;t understand, I've never seen anyone take progesterone (myself or other people i've seen use it) act tyrannical and try to control other people?

Joke. I don't think it's the progesterone.
 

ilikecats

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@yarreg its kind of a taboo around here to say that the application of Peat's ideas produce any effects that aren't geared toward altruism and feelings of love and happiness... :( I also noticed that some people have what I'd call the OTHER dark side of learned helplessness.... Where they try to control people or induce a state of learned helplessness in others to try to overcome their own state of learned helplessness. It would be interesting to study the effect that positions of power have on neurotransmitters and the endocrine system. Possibly very dopaminergic with increases in testosterone? so... Peaty in a way?! just thinking out loud....
 

Regina

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O okay, figured I'd chime in because I can't tell sometimes with people throwing around the effects of different substances; things like "yeah my testosterone was really high and I wanted to fight a bunch of people".
So alpha. :lol:
 

lvysaur

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Greater success with women predicts greater "benevolence" bias towards women, and less misogyny. I'd still say aggression (when not needed) is an estrogenic trait.
 

REOSIRENS

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I don;t understand, I've never seen anyone take progesterone (myself or other people i've seen use it) act tyrannical and try to control other people?
If cholesterol is low Progesterone will make things worse and individuals will run on low blood sugar and will have low testosterone as well...this physiological situation makes people feel edgy insecure obsessive and control freaks...it's so stressful that makes individuals aggressive and lacking empathy towards other people(self absorbed on their own suffering)
 
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yerrag

yerrag

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Haha... Your family situation is funny. While I feel for your bros-in-laws, I'd recommend you not giving them any hormones or psychoactive substances without their knowledge. While you might get empowered men who shook off their learned helplessness and stood back against the progesterone-fueled tyrants in the family, it's also possible you end up with an enraged group of men because "how dare you do as you want, things were fine as they were," etc. If it took your bros years to bow down to the strong-willed (aka tyrannical) women in the family, you can bet that they rationalized their choices somehow, which would render your attempts to change their ways illogical or even harmful in their eyes.

You're right. Very likely true that my in-laws have adapted to the ways of my sisters, if that is what you mean by their rationalizing their choices. I felt their acquiescence is borne more out of a passive attitude from realizing that resistance is futile, as my sisters would have their way in the end. I would upset the system if suddenly my in-laws change, with the new-found energy to engage in arguments.

We were raised by a docile mother and a very dominant father, whose attitude has been shaped by fear of failure. We were always wrong, and I grew up having no opinion about anything because I feared being wrong. It took me a lot of effort to overcome my fears, and I began to see myself differently when I began to excel in school. Having some recognition brought some confidence in me, which helped form me in later years. I left home because I couldn't stand my father's negative attitudes towards life, and those years away helped me develop, than be a reflection of my father. In many ways, what I am now is a refutation of him. But what I am now is also because of him, because he made me question many things, and to be open to the possibility of being wrong. It's ironic that what my sisters accuse me of being, that of being like my father in his flaws, would come to defined them. They show many characteristics of being insecure, and are afraid to take risks. But I say this generally, because those who have left home and be away from my dad, they have become their own person as well. The ones who've not left the area are unknowingly impacted by his presence.

And yes, it's not the progesterone in them, I suppose. It's more the influence of my father. I cannot say more. I couldn't even ascribe their behavior to hormones. Like Ray says, happiness also defines your health. And having negative attitudes will bring about less healthy dispositions in people. At any rate, I felt that if my in-laws had more progesterone in them, maybe they could replace their passivity with an earnest desire to help my desire overcome their fears. This takes effort and understanding, and can be exhausting without an abundance of energy.



84. Woman learns how to hate in proportion as she--forgets how to charm

Charm can sometimes be manipulative. I have two aunts, they can be very charming, when they need something from you. When you have outlived your use to them, you can see the hate. I would rather say "Woman learns to hate in proportion as she - forgets how to love."

I don;t understand, I've never seen anyone take progesterone (myself or other people i've seen use it) act tyrannical and try to control other people?

Yeah my experience has also been that progesterone, like thyroid, makes one want to do things; create, be involved, learn

I think the lack of assertiveness is consistent with what happens to males as they age, apathetic and just sitting on the sidelines so to speak. Check out the posts on the forum about the effects of low testosterone on behavior. It seems that women become 'excititory' , like when you fast and drink 5 cups of coffee and think you need to clean everything and get mad when other people aren't cleaning.

Obviously though there's a difference between wanting to be involved in the world and with others and wanting to enforce your will on others.

Agreed. Progesterone isn't a hormone of destruction. It builds.

Do you mean women low on testosterone can become manic? So it's not just needed by males then?

@yarreg its kind of a taboo around here to say that the application of Peat's ideas produce any effects that aren't geared toward altruism and feelings of love and happiness... :( I also noticed that some people have what I'd call the OTHER dark side of learned helplessness.... Where they try to control people or induce a state of learned helplessness in others to try to overcome their own state of learned helplessness. It would be interesting to study the effect that positions of power have on neurotransmitters and the endocrine system. Possibly very dopaminergic with increases in testosterone? so... Peaty in a way?! just thinking out loud....

Wouldn't craving for power be a sign of insecurity? Which is why Jesus says "the greatest is the least among you," because the least is given power, and does not grab power.
 

Tarmander

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Charm can sometimes be manipulative. I have two aunts, they can be very charming, when they need something from you. When you have outlived your use to them, you can see the hate. I would rather say "Woman learns to hate in proportion as she - forgets how to love."

It's from beyond good and evil, I figured if you were doing a thread about Nietzsche you should have a relevant line. :rolleyes:
 
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yerrag

yerrag

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It's from beyond good and evil, I figured if you were doing a thread about Nietzsche you should have a relevant line. :rolleyes:
Scratch my change. Keep the quote from Beyond Good and Evil. Mine sounds so banal. What was I thinking?:blackeye:
 
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