Why Ray Peat May Be Advising Against (strong) Spices

haidut

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Ray has written on the topic of de-ennervation and how it negatively affects the tissues where nerves die off or have reduced communication efficiency. He wrote that some spices, especially capsaicin, are known to cause de-ennervation and he tries to avoid those. This recent study seems to provide a possible explanation on the mechanism and benefit to avoiding spices.

http://www.neomatica.com/2014/06/13/tur ... fespan-10/

So, turning off the pain "receptor" TRPV1 increased lifespan in mice by about 10%, with the key finding that turning that "receptor" off resulted in "...The mice without pain receptor grow normally but have youthful metabolism even when old".

Additionally, as the study noted:

"...The same receptor is also the one that binds capsaicin, the chemical responsible for sensations of spiciness. Therefore these mice, were they to be tested, would likely to be found less sensitive to spicy food."

So, it may be fair to say that avoiding extra strong spices like capsaicin would reduce activation of TRPV1 and keep youthful metabolism functioning for longer.
 

Hugh Johnson

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haidut said:
So, turning off the pain "receptor" TRPV1 increased lifespan in mice by about 10%, with the key finding that turning that "receptor" off resulted in "...The mice without pain receptor grow normally but have youthful metabolism even when old".

I think this part is far more interesting. We are often taught "No Pain, No Gain". Perhaps it should be "Pain, No Gain". You can see this in our authoritarian culture. The ruling classes protect their children and themselves from pain but for poor children "Hunger can be a positive motivator."

"The days that make us happy make us wise." Maybe it's true. Not just true but demonstrably true.
 
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haidut

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Hugh Johnson said:
haidut said:
So, turning off the pain "receptor" TRPV1 increased lifespan in mice by about 10%, with the key finding that turning that "receptor" off resulted in "...The mice without pain receptor grow normally but have youthful metabolism even when old".

I think this part is far more interesting. We are often taught "No Pain, No Gain". Perhaps it should be "Pain, No Gain". You can see this in our authoritarian culture. The ruling classes protect their children and themselves from pain but for poor children "Hunger can be a positive motivator."

"The days that make us happy make us wise." Maybe it's true. Not just true but demonstrably true.

Could not agree more. I have heard the expression "Rulers thrive, when individuals strive". We are constantly being bombarded with a message that the best solutions to any problems are born when individuals are constantly fighting for survival. I guess in a perverse sense that can be a positive motivator - fighting for your life. So, this constant stress is institutionalized through creating organizations whose job is to promote fear and uncertainty. However, Hans Selye said that this constant struggle depletes the adaptation energy reserves and eventually health crumbles. How far from the 1950s predictions that by 2000 everybody will be working from home and not more than one day a week...
 

pboy

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but that's all part of the trap...train you in school and through media the no pain no gain model, tell you your only hope at a good life is making money and getting good degree, people let go of their health and other aspects of life and learning, take out large loans, and push through the pain using whatever means to get the degree. Then a few years later they realize either it wasn't worth it or that their job and lifestyle have quickly become stale and is not what they are looking for...meanwhile their health has suffered, they haven't grown in any real or meaningful ways, they realize they might have been taken advantage of, are in debt to loans, mortgage, have got a wife or some other binding force, and now don't have the time energy or health to ever compete with or do anything against the people on top who have the luxury, high quality food, no acute stress, and end up being pretty much stuck where they are in a service position...and they end up desiring peace, and become tired of fighting to have what they get, pushing through, living the no pain no gain model

...and then you get all the 'required checkups' and eventually soon after you retire, a curse of some kind of ill health is placed on you by a doctor, and you spend most of your retirement time giving money back to the medical system and system at large and not enjoying your finally free time
 
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haidut

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jaywills

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Pboy absolutely spot on. You see this happening time and time again and the line about not growing in any real or meaningful way really resonated with me. What would you suggest here to give purpose to ones life? After following this path and feeling completely 'empty'
 

XPlus

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So no more hot sauce for me. :(
 
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SolidSteele

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I'm interested but I can't read german. Anyone keen on translating the important point?
 

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TeaRex14

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I've always liked spicy foods, nothing too spicy though. Mainly just jalapenos and serrano. I'm pretty sure peppers increase dopamine levels, hence why you feel so good after the pain from the heat disappears.
 

Inaut

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Where would ginger and cinnamon fit in here? I know gingerol is quite similar to capsaicin...
 
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"he says. Already, diets rich in capsaicin have been linked to lower incidences of diabetes and metabolic problems in humans, he notes. So might spicy foods be a way of extending life? Maybe, Dillin says, but you’d have to eat a lot of them over a long period of time. “Prolonged exposure to capsaicin can actually kill the neuron” that transmits signals from TRPV1, he explains. Knocking out those signals might mimic the effects of being born without TRPV1 in the first place and, therefore, could lead to a longer life."

Study Of Special Mice Points To Surprising Life-Extension Strategy

I'm confused so is spicey foods good or bad?

Its sounds like activation of TRPV1 is bad, and thus eating spicy foods to stop its activation is a good thing?
 

Elephanto

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Where would ginger and cinnamon fit in here? I know gingerol is quite similar to capsaicin...
One of ginger's component has been shown to trigger TRPV1 but we should elucidate by which mechanisms does TPRV1 decreases lifespan. TRPV1 activation releases Histamine but ginger has been shown to significantly decrease Histamine in some cases; this could be a main mechanism of its negative effect. And if pain is a marker of TRPV1 activation, ginger is much less potent than capsaicin at doing so.

TRPV1 mediates histamine-induced itching via the activation of phospholipase A2 and 12-lipoxygenase. - PubMed - NCBI

Ginger inhibits Phospholipase A2 :
Ginger phenylpropanoids inhibit IL-1beta and prostanoid secretion and disrupt arachidonate-phospholipid remodeling by targeting phospholipases A2. - PubMed - NCBI

Inhibits 5-lipoxygenase (presumably 12 also, since it generally inhibits both COX and LOX pathways) :
Ginger--an herbal medicinal product with broad anti-inflammatory actions. - PubMed - NCBI

Ginger pretreatment significantly decreased MDA and histamine content as compared to ulcer control rats.
These results demonstrate that administration of either ginger or marshmallow extract could protect against indomethacin-induced peptic ulcer in rats presumably via their antioxidant properties and inhibition of histamine release.
Protective effects of ginger and marshmallow extracts on indomethacin-induced peptic ulcer in rats

Effect of ginger on gastric motility and symptoms of functional dyspepsia
Gastroprotective Effect of Ginger Rhizome (Zingiber officinale) Extract: Role of Gallic Acid and Cinnamic Acid in H+, K+-ATPase/H. pylori Inhibition and Anti-Oxidative Mechanism
(here increasing motility and protecting gut's integrity which should have beneficial effects on Endotoxins and so Histamine)

Something interesting, Oleic Acid inhibits TRPV1.
Inhibition of TRPV1 channels by a naturally occurring omega-9 fatty acid reduces pain and itch
But there is Oleic Acid accumulation in Alzheimer. I'm also not sure if TRPV1 is entirely negative considering there are beneficial studies, there could be a window of net benefits when Histamine and Arachidonic Acid metabolism are otherwise kept low and the activation of TRPV1 isn't excessive or too frequent.

There's also the theory mentioned in one of the studies that regular use of TRPV1 activators leads to desentisization providing the long-term benefits of TRPV1 inhibitors.

edit :
@Mastodonhugger actually just mentionned it. It may be true but cayenne pepper can easily damage your gut linings leading to a plethora of harmful cascades, high intakes are also linked to stomach cancer. Also triggers Nitric Oxide. There could be a window of net benefits though, considering it's also anti-bacterial and has been shown to increase Testosterone.
 
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