Why I Regret Giving Hair Loss Advice And A Major Breakthrough

[firebreather]

Which polysorbate 80 product do you use. Lots of fake reviews on amazon. The recommended polysorbate 80 on amazon gets a rating of D from fakespot.com

 

[JDreamer]

High DHT is a symptom of chronic stress, so it would more likely be the stress causing shallow breathing. DHT is triggered as a protective measure to reduce cortisol, but like I showed it also triggers Estrogen-Receptor Alpha, the cancer/angiogenesis promoting receptor.

Since they used finasteride in your study, we can hypothesize that it was the reduction of endotoxins, thus lowering stress, that caused this change.

Copper is good for the actual hair follicle, ameliorates hair texture, but isn't a cause of mpb progression while excess can be one. In the other thread (Cause of Baldness) I posted a guide by a guy who had full hairline recovery and he did very high dose molybdenum for months, on the pics (got 404'd) I remember that before his hair had a distinct copper/red-ish tone and on the after it was very dark with no sign of red hue. Pics were taken with good lighting.

There is copper in tap water if your house uses copper plumbing, most modern ones don't. But then if you also drink sodas, who knows what kind of plumbing they use.

What's strange is the last hormone panel I had run 3 years or so ago showed slightly elevated cortisol and low DHT (as well as low E).

 

[dreamcatcher]

Well topical estrogen regrows hair in men, so something estrogenic might be good for hair but not for health.

It's not the estrogen, I think (better explained on perfecthairhealth) but it induces change in skull shape which makes decalcification possible.

 

[xetawaves]

It's not the estrogen, I think (better explained on perfecthairhealth) but it induces change in skull shape which makes decalcification possible.

I'm not so sure that I believe that theory.

 

[dreamcatcher]

I've never done it consistently for months, maybe the first month or two back when I started but now only sporadically, really controlled breathing will be as efficient since you'll retain more CO2. Reminds me of a singer whose dad is bald and he had deep anxiety issues as a teenager and the one advice he gave as if it was the most important was that whenever he felt stress he would focus on breathing slowly and the stress went away, now as a nearly 30 years old man he looks very young and has a perfect and very low hairline, he also has a small forehead like his skull presents no sign of calcification or excess growth.

If you drink enough water, probably no problems but the thing is that most baking sodas may contain traces of aluminium, ironically one that I bought which was supposed to be aluminium-free left a metallic taste in mouth so I went back to Arm & Hammer.



Yes, and excess free copper (from copper plumbing, peraphs even organic sources) increases soft tissue calcification, and is found high in prostate cancer (which bald men have much higher risks) and alzheimer. Lack of B6 will also cause copper accumulation. Low zinc/high copper in both prostate cancer and alzheimer, zinc is anti-estrogenic while copper is estrogenic. Zinc inhibits vascular calcification (no study on tissue calcification but probably too by antagonism of copper). That's why for some people, you might have to chelate copper with molybdenum for a while, and then refeed with organic copper (Kale, lamb, etc; not a big fan of liver since it may be high in heavy metals).

Is that your way of thinking? Ray Peat advises against molybdenum and encourages the intake of copper rich foods because he thinks that copper is important for hair growth. I have an email from him discussing this issue.

 

[dreamcatcher]

Your comments about copper have caused me quite a bit of concern.

I've suspected for a while now that my shower water is loaded with it. At times there has been a sulfur-like smell when I first turn the shower on and an accumulation of an orange-ish colored build-up can always be found on my shower curtains after a few weeks. There was once a leak back behind the wall that was supposedly fixed. Not ironically my diffused hair loss started less than a year after I moved into this place.

As a precaution, while I may wash my body in the shower I always rinse my hair in the sink. Btw my father had prostate cancer. I have Gilbert's Syndrome so my liver is often sluggish and I can't imagine if I'm absorbing excess copper it's helping the situation. Can't forget the amalgams in my mouth as well.

Have you thought about installing a shower filter?

 

[dreamcatcher]

Isn’t there copper in all tap water? The water coming from your faucet is no different than the water coming out your shower head.

I’ve read of people slowing their hair loss with copper. I supplemented it for a couple months last year and my shedding slowed down a lot for a while.

That makes sense as copper plays an important role.
Ray Peat's reply to my question on why my hair is thinning and lost it's naturally dark brown colour:

"Copper is the catalyst that forms the
melanin. Shell fish such as shrimp, crab, mussels, scallops,
squid, etc., are good sources of copper. Cooked mushrooms
are another source. Too much iron in the diet (also too much
molybdenum or sulfur) has a competitive effect that can
interfere with copper’s effects."

 

[dreamcatcher]

Back to the topic of breathing, aren’t there several studies that link DHT and sleep apnea? I found this one interesting, especially considering that they used finasteride in the study.

Testosterone Conversion Blockade Increases Breathing Stability in Healthy Men during NREM Sleep

I would assume DHT could also cause shallow breathing while awake.

Peppermint oil is more effective than finasteride, according to this study:

Peppermint Oil For Hair Loss - 60% More Hair Growth Than Minoxidil!

 

[Elephanto]

@Rosie Because something like Copper has functions related to hair follicles doesn't mean it can't promote mpb in excess, especially coming from inorganic sources, and so it has been shown to be estrogenic, to be high in prostate cancer (highly correlated with baldness) and Alzheimer. I don't think that Peat has ever "solved" hair loss despite bringing a couple interesting theories here and there that have no proven results of significant regrowth (like applying caffeine and aspirin on your scalp) while apparently being oblivious to scalp calcification. On the other end some people have seen impressive regrowth by being for months on very high dose molybdenum suggesting that excess free copper was a cause of hair loss for them. Reality has to support your theories. I more advice it as something to try in last resort because taking Zinc usually is enough since it covers pretty much everything (prevents copper accumulation, anti nitric-oxide, anti-estrogen which copper both increases; anti-cortisol, pro-dopamine, anti-bacterial etc) and I did stress that Copper deficiency isn't desirable. Things that affect the quality of the individual hair follice have little to do with the process of male pattern baldness, unless they also affect the actual underlying factors (calcification, nitric oxide, estrogen, cortisol, endotoxin, co2, etc). That's why Biotin is one of the least effective supplements for mpb despite on paper looking so important for hair. Pretty much anything that decalcifies will greatly ameliorates the condition of the hair follicle since it isn't growing through a thick layer of calcification anymore, thus looking much stronger.

Not posting this specifically for you but interesting study for the thread :
Aorta and Other Soft Tissue Calcification in the Magnesium-deficient Rat | The Journal of Nutrition | Oxford Academic
I don't think Peat has ever related Magnesium (or lack of) to hair loss. Instead his typical diet has an immensely disproportional Calcium/Magnesium ratio and puts much more emphasis on Copper and Calcium in his articles than Zinc and Mag. Even advicing using copper cookwares, which is a source of inorganic copper and potentially the reason why free copper is high in Alzheimer and Prostate Cancer. At least that's what some researchers hypothesize. In the presence of doubt, I'd rather get my Copper organically from food.

Peppermint oil is more effective than finasteride, according to this study:
Peppermint Oil For Hair Loss - 60% More Hair Growth Than Minoxidil!

Peppermint is highly anti-androgenic and will have systemic effects when applied topically, and btw your study compares it to Minoxidil not Finasteride. I would stay away from that as mpb has been solved while raising testosterone and not turning into an eunuch.

 

[Motif]

My blood tests for years show im zinc and copper deficient.

I first tied zinc only about 30-50 mg: Did nothing to my dermatitis. Very high doses took the itching, but after ten days it became worse than before.

I tried copper only too. Same thing. Took my symptoms for about a week to ten days then it got worse than before

 

[Elephanto]

My blood tests for years show im zinc and copper deficient.

I first tied zinc only about 30-50 mg: Did nothing to my dermatitis. Very high doses took the itching, but after ten days it became worse than before.

I tried copper only too. Same thing. Took my symptoms for about a week to ten days then it got worse than before

Excess free copper shows up as copper deficiency in blood in an Alzheimer study (I'll repost if I can find it). Have you been tested for iron too? And potentially all copper supplements are considered inorganic copper, adding to the free copper pool.

This one has a few interesting quotes

Danzeisen and colleagues [19] reported that free copper is not a suitable marker for copper

Specifically, free copper is an exchangeable pool of copper in serum which is probably in a Cu(I) oxidative state and is loosely bound and exchanged among amino acids, small peptides, albumin, and alpha 2 macroglobulin. This type of copper is intrinsically toxic since it can enter Fenton-like reactions triggering free radical generation [3]. Moreover, for its low-molecular-weight nature it can easily cross the blood-brain barrier as previously [4] and very recently [5] demonstrated in diverse experimental models in vivo.

While a debate did exist for many years concerning a positive or negative effect of plasma copper on AD, free copper results from clinical studies carried out on Alzheimer's disease patients so far are univocal, demonstrating a detrimental effect of this type of copper on Alzheimer's disease worsening.

Paradigm Shift in Treatment of Alzheimer's Disease: Zinc Therapy Now a Conscientious Choice for Care of Individual Patients

Here, metallothionein is required to bind free copper and as such to make it carry its beneficial functions.

A study has shown that the levels of the metal-binding protein metallothionein may be reduced in Alzheimer's disease [8], and another neurodegenerative disease, hepatolenticular degeneration or Wilson's disease is known to be caused by free copper poisoning

And in this one, Zinc upregulates metallothionein, and that an iron chelator had similar properties though not explicitly upregulating metallothionein :
Metallothionein protects against oxidative stress-induced lysosomal destabilization. - PubMed - NCBI

we report that Zn-mediated MT up-regulation

During iron deficiency related to poor iron intake, zinc absorption was increased

So I can't find direct evidence that excess Iron decreases MT but at least that Iron deficiency increases it. Perhaps while avoiding iron deficiency, one can increase MT simply by reducing iron.

Compared to ad libitum fed controls, MT-I concentrations in the blood cells of the iron-deficient rats were higher, whereas concentrations in pair-fed control rats were lower.

Inflammation and oxidation (such as from endotoxins, high TSH, cortisol, estrogen, poor liver function etc) will reduce metallothionein, that's why a stack of supplements to attack many issues is often needed to solve mpb or even Alzheimer, not a single agent.

 

[Motif]

My iron was high. But ferritin and transferrin were "perfect"


@Elephanto

Do you have a link to that molybdenum hair growth story?

 

[Elephanto]

My iron was high. But ferritin and transferrin were "perfect"


@Elephanto

Do you have a link to that molybdenum hair growth story?

Misc.

The pics sadly got 404'd but it was a complete hairline regrowth. I mentioned that I remember his hair color changing, no more copperish tone to it. Plus I have seen a testimony a few years ago where that person's missing elements were Molybdenum and Boron to achieve regrowth.

But yeah I'd try to lower iron, a user here had a drastic reduction with 2 teaspoons of grounded coriander seeds daily for a few months.

Iron also affects many of the parameters I've discussed. Directly reduces p53 (which triggers IGFBP3, both are low in cancer and the later proven to be low in young balding men), and increases endotoxins (again another IGFBP3 inhibitor). Should have mentioned Iron in the important causative factors but my research was done a long time ago so I forgot to add.

 

[Motif]

Oh that's what you are talking about. I know that thread very well.

 

[CLASH]

@Elephanto
So you believe that something like daily/ multiple daily ejaculation(s) over an extended period of time could lead to zinc depletion and subsequent subclinical zinc deficiency (among other deficiencies)?

 

[Elephanto]

@Elephanto
So you believe that something like daily/ multiple daily ejaculation(s) over an extended period of time could lead to zinc depletion and subsequent subclinical zinc deficiency (among other deficiencies)?

Yes but not only that. Ejaculation increases prolactin (another factor), increases estrogen receptors and decreases androgen receptors for a few days post-ejaculation. Depending on your health state, it might decrease your dopamine levels for a few days instead of a few hours, increasing cortisol. Zinc is involved with all of this but I think the extent of those effects is related to more than the Zinc loss.

 

[xetawaves]

Yes but not only that. Ejaculation increases prolactin (another factor), increases estrogen receptors and decreases androgen receptors for a few days post-ejaculation. Depending on your health state, it might decrease your dopamine levels for a few days instead of a few hours, increasing cortisol. Zinc is involved with all of this but I think the extent of those effects is related to more than the Zinc loss.

Last year I did nofap for an entire month and lost a ton of hair..

 

[Wagner83]

Last year I did nofap for an entire month and lost a ton of hair..

It's part of the detox, those ugly fantasies pour out of your body through the pores of the top of your head, the glans of the body as they say in TCM.

 

[Elephanto]

Last year I did nofap for an entire month and lost a ton of hair..

Really ? For me it's basically an insurance policy that my hair doesn't change.

 

[xetawaves]

Really ? For me it's basically an insurance policy that my hair doesn't change.

Face got super oily and I was shedding hundreds of hairs a day. Abstaining from ejaculation is not a rational way to fight hair loss anyways. If you wanna get laid that is.