Why I Believe Very Low Fat ("carbosis") May Be Superior For Lean Bulking

Jeemmy

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Typically 2 large meals. I want to buy a scale so I can weigh in grams how much fills me up of a certain food. Calories are pointless because they don't tell you what you actually burn and they ignore the facts of difference between fat, sugar and protein. The only supplement I currently take is 225 mcg of iodine twice a week because I don't eat anything from the sea including seaweed.

Do you eat breakfast and dinner or lunch and dinner like IF style? Just curios :)
 

mipp

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Baked/fried starch= Bad as it breaks the chains of glucose down at such high heats in the 300-600 degree ovens and dehydrates the molecules rather than hydrate and gelatinize. This dry starch is just pure energy and leads to fat gain/edema/bloating/gas common in starch consumption.
In my experience it's the opposite. Some boiled starch is ok but not as primary source of energy in my diet. All the bulk and water that comes with it eventually caused reflux and other problems you mention that I never had with dry starches.
 
D

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In my experience it's the opposite. Some boiled starch is ok but not as primary source of energy in my diet. All the bulk and water that comes with it eventually caused reflux and other problems you mention that I never had with dry starches.

Interesting. Well listen to your body.

I think the superiority of boiled starches really comes with muscle glycogen and pack-man amylase enzymes that unfold glucose polysacharchides in the small intestine.

But the baked starchs may prove easier to digest/instant.

As for the water/bulk this sort of gives the illusion of being full and helps with the weight loss associated with the potato diet. Generally salt the heck out of potatos and oats.
 

mipp

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Interesting. Well listen to your body.

I think the superiority of boiled starches really comes with muscle glycogen and pack-man amylase enzymes that unfold glucose polysacharchides in the small intestine.

But the baked starchs may prove easier to digest/instant.

As for the water/bulk this sort of gives the illusion of being full and helps with the weight loss associated with the potato diet. Generally salt the heck out of potatos and oats.
If I were to listen to my body I would just eat wheat noodles. It's the only boiled starch that I always crave and which is rather easy to digest.
Well cooked potatoes are ok too but they are relatively low in carbs per unit weight. On a very low fat diet this means eating at least 0,5 kg at every meal, a few kgs per day. That's a lot of cooking. Also potatoes are rather bland without added fat and they spike blood sugar like no other food.
I've played with other starches like barley, oats, buckwheat and they were much more problematic. I've actually had better experience with dry oatmeal cookies then cooked oats.
 

EIRE24

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If I were to listen to my body I would just eat wheat noodles. It's the only boiled starch that I always crave and which is rather easy to digest.
Well cooked potatoes are ok too but they are relatively low in carbs per unit weight. On a very low fat diet this means eating at least 0,5 kg at every meal, a few kgs per day. That's a lot of cooking. Also potatoes are rather bland without added fat and they spike blood sugar like no other food.
I've played with other starches like barley, oats, buckwheat and they were much more problematic. I've actually had better experience with dry oatmeal cookies then cooked oats.
I feel white rice actually leaves me feeling more hypoglaecemic than potatoes.
 
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I have a few questions @Westside PUFAs

1) Does pressure cooked/boiled starch stay "good" in the refrigerator? For what length of time?

Yes. The "resistant" starch stuff is nonsense. You're putting it back into your 98 degree body. I don't know how long it's good for because I always eat it quickly. That would be a good experiment.
 
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Do you eat breakfast and dinner or lunch and dinner like IF style? Just curios :)

I only eat breakfast if I'm truly hungry. Most of the time I just do one big lunch and one big dinner. But I wouldn't call it IF style because IF is a stupid concept.
 

biffbelvin

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If I were to listen to my body I would just eat wheat noodles. It's the only boiled starch that I always crave and which is rather easy to digest.
Well cooked potatoes are ok too but they are relatively low in carbs per unit weight. On a very low fat diet this means eating at least 0,5 kg at every meal, a few kgs per day. That's a lot of cooking. Also potatoes are rather bland without added fat and they spike blood sugar like no other food.
I've played with other starches like barley, oats, buckwheat and they were much more problematic. I've actually had better experience with dry oatmeal cookies then cooked oats.

Cooking potatoes and cooling them for 24hrs in the fridge reduces GI/II by 28%. In addition to this, adding a vinegar/oil dressing reduces GI/II to 31%-43%.

With the dressing as per the study, you're looking at ~26% of calories from fat. This could be offset elsewhere in your diet, adjusting the fat:acid ratio of the vinegraitte or forgoing it entirely (since most of the benefit comes from cooling).

Finding this study was a bit of an 'a-ha' moment for me as eating potatoes with fat and acid is ubiquitous. Interesting to see evidence that it might not just be due to the taste.

I feel white rice actually leaves me feeling more hypoglaecemic than potatoes.

I wonder if it has anything to do with water content? I handle rice better when it's been cooked for a further 5 minutes (on a lower heat) once the water has been boiled out.

Yes. The "resistant" starch stuff is nonsense. You're putting it back into your 98 degree body. I don't know how long it's good for because I always eat it quickly. That would be a good experiment.

That's interesting. Do you have a source for the temperature that RS starts to break back down into starch as i can't find anything online.
 
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That's interesting. Do you have a source for the temperature that RS starts to break back down into starch as i can't find anything online.

Logic. Beans are highest in RS naturally and for potatoes and rice it's meaningless. RS is both a non-issue and a non-benefit. I don't want to resist the starch. I want to absorb it for energy. All of the RS stuff is by low carbers and people who are on record bashing "carbs" (which were really high fat foods they were talking about) but then saw how many people were having success on HCLF so they wanted to jump on the bandwagon without conceding that they were wrong so they use the RS BS. Like this for example: Tater Haters Love Resistant Starch

The study you posted also shows that they don't understand the glycemic index flaw. Also see what I said here.
 
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@Westside PUFAs

Fill out my form:

Age:
28

Biological gender of birth, i.e., were you born with testicles or ovaries (please indicate if you take "trans" hormones):
Male

Height:
5'8''

Weight (in pounds or kilograms, no "stones"):
169lbs (14-15% body fat)

All pharmaceutical medications you currently take including any birth control, include the duration:
None

All pharmaceutical medications you have taken in the past including any birth control, include the duration:
Brief stints of the following: Testosterone (3x2 weeks separated by 8 weeks each), Exemestane (2-3 weeks), Letrozole (during cycle, plus post: 2-3 weeks), Clomifene (3x2 weeks [PCT]), Nebivolol (on and off during low impact cardio), Metoprolol (same as nebivolol); previous cycle of DNP (~4 weeks of 250-500mg/day)

All dietary supplements including "natural" hormones you currently take, include the duration:
on/off 5mg sublingual DHEA, 25mg Pregnenolone; previous usage of T3 - 6-12.5mcg, Duration = 1-3 months on/off

All dietary supplements including "natural" hormones you have taken in the past, include the duration:
on/off 5000iu Vitamin D, 25k-40k Retinyl Palmitate, 400-800mg Magnesium Glycinate, 50mg Zinc Gluconate, 5-10g Glutamine, 600mg KSM-66 (aswahgandha), 700mg Mucuna (15% L-Dopa), 3-5g Taurine; 1.5-2.0g Niacin 2-3x/week (for cholesterol); 1.5g Niacinamide (1x/week)

A few days ago, I tried a "Vitamin C Flush" experiment. Went up to 10g of Ascorbic Acid and stopped, but did not receive any ill-effects (as the point of the flush is to induce an "enema-like" effect). If anything, I felt calm and collected. Current dosage is around 3g/day.


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None

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Once/month Marijuana usage

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Previous smoker (1-2 cigarettes/day) - haven't smoked cigarettes in 3 months; sublingual nicotine before workout (5-9mg) - duration = 1-2 months (this was Feb 2017- March 2017)

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None diagnosed yet

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Only in the mornings upon waking. Bowel movements stop mid-day and constipated in the evening

Recent and current general diet, be specific as possible:
Tried High Fat/Low Carb a few weeks past; current macros: (155p, 155c, 75f) for 3 days (trying to lose weight), once a week high cal days = (145p, 320c, 65f). Beforehand, diet was out of place due to frustration

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Only two injections of HPV vaccination (missed the third one). Hep B. All vaccinations were conducted in early 2016.

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Weight training 4-5x/week

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Water 3-4L/Day

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Slight

Level of sexual satisfaction:
On 1-10: 3-4

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Try for 8, sometimes get 6, but I try to make it up for it over the weekend

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Now? I sleep through. Until a few weeks ago, I would wake up at least once; few months ago, I would wake up 2-3 times.

What hours you sleep from and to, as in "normal" or late like 3am-noon:
From 10-11pm to 6am (sometimes 8am)

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Some soap

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Israel -relocated from New Jersey (might be moving to North Carolina in 2018)

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Try for at least 10-20 min/day on face and arms.

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Construction on my street (moving next week). I live in an old building, so there might be mold? No power plant, freeway or mines.

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Sardines: 3-4x/week. Shrimp 1-2x/week

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Available and uploaded.

What are your health goals?
Regain my health; lower bloat and gut inflammation; increase nutrient absorption from food; lose weight (I used to be 160lbs at 10% body fat up until 6 months ago)

At your height and weight you probably have about 15-25 lbs. of fat to lose, depending on how much is muscle. You can experience symptoms until the fat is gone because it could be a source of toxins and it itself is a source of estrogen and other hormones. It takes a long time to get the brain normal after nicotine addiction and using THC doesn’t help. It only gives temporary symptom suppression. You’ve taken way too much drugs/meds/supplements. For bloat and gut inflammation to be fixed takes more work than most people are willing to put in because it requires daily food prep, day after day, week after week, month after month. A “clean” high fiber diet. Peat likes raw carrot fiber, raw fruit fiber, cooked mushroom fiber and cooked bamboo shoot fiber. Eating some junky oily/flour/additive/fake rennet in cheese foods can cause problems for days after eaten. Meat is often also a source of endotoxin. Seafood is loaded with toxins so I avoid it.
 

mmartian

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@Westside PUFAs I've been trying to make oatmeal work. You mentioned in another thread you usually do the soaked Scottish oats so I tried that. Usually oatmeal gives me hemorrhoid type bumps in my butt, but the soaked Scottish oats were better in that regard. But I still got some dark, flaky excema spots on my face and some restless leg symptoms from the Scottish oats. I let it soak for 12–18 hours and cooked it for like 15 minutes. Should I be cooking longer? Do you think the pressurized cooking could help make it easier to digest?
 
D

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@Westside PUFAs I've been trying to make oatmeal work. You mentioned in another thread you usually do the soaked Scottish oats so I tried that. Usually oatmeal gives me hemorrhoid type bumps in my butt, but the soaked Scottish oats were better in that regard. But I still got some dark, flaky excema spots on my face and some restless leg symptoms from the Scottish oats. I let it soak for 12–18 hours and cooked it for like 15 minutes. Should I be cooking longer? Do you think the pressurized cooking could help make it easier to digest?

Try Soaking them in either 2TBS of Lemon juice/cidar vineagar+Water in a warm enviroment+covered over night this is common WAPF recommendations.

Scottish oats are probably the easiest to digest. I eat them with a tiny bit of butter and a spoon full of raw honey+ Some eggs on the side+fat free milk. My common breakfast. Leads to much more stable enegery for me. Eggs+OJ i did for months, but was always starving an 1-2 hr and lacked the muscle glycogen to workout as much as I wanted.

I currently have no digestive issues with them.

I have had the best success on a PUFA Freeish Bodybuilder diet, with Milk and red meat for protein instead of chicken/fish, emphasis on potatoes+Peaty "supplements" like liver/oysters and plenty of OJ/Raw honey. Having a starch(boiled) staple really transformed my body Composition and hormonal Profile.
 

Sobieski

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Try Soaking them in either 2TBS of Lemon juice/cidar vineagar+Water in a warm enviroment+covered over night this is common WAPF recommendations.

Scottish oats are probably the easiest to digest. I eat them with a tiny bit of butter and a spoon full of raw honey+ Some eggs on the side+fat free milk. My common breakfast. Leads to much more stable enegery for me. Eggs+OJ i did for months, but was always starving an 1-2 hr and lacked the muscle glycogen to workout as much as I wanted.

I currently have no digestive issues with them.

I have had the best success on a PUFA Freeish Bodybuilder diet, with Milk and red meat for protein instead of chicken/fish, emphasis on potatoes+Peaty "supplements" like liver/oysters and plenty of OJ/Raw honey. Having a starch(boiled) staple really transformed my body Composition and hormonal Profile.

Do you still eat lots of rice krispies?
 
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@Westside PUFAs I've been trying to make oatmeal work. You mentioned in another thread you usually do the soaked Scottish oats so I tried that. Usually oatmeal gives me hemorrhoid type bumps in my butt, but the soaked Scottish oats were better in that regard. But I still got some dark, flaky excema spots on my face and some restless leg symptoms from the Scottish oats. I let it soak for 12–18 hours and cooked it for like 15 minutes. Should I be cooking longer? Do you think the pressurized cooking could help make it easier to digest?

Could be many things. As long as they are soft they are fine.
 

Jsaute21

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At your height and weight you probably have about 15-25 lbs. of fat to lose, depending on how much is muscle. You can experience symptoms until the fat is gone because it could be a source of toxins and it itself is a source of estrogen and other hormones. It takes a long time to get the brain normal after nicotine addiction and using THC doesn’t help. It only gives temporary symptom suppression. You’ve taken way too much drugs/meds/supplements. For bloat and gut inflammation to be fixed takes more work than most people are willing to put in because it requires daily food prep, day after day, week after week, month after month. A “clean” high fiber diet. Peat likes raw carrot fiber, raw fruit fiber, cooked mushroom fiber and cooked bamboo shoot fiber. Eating some junky oily/flour/additive/fake rennet in cheese foods can cause problems for days after eaten. Meat is often also a source of endotoxin. Seafood is loaded with toxins so I avoid it.
I know you are a tremendous resource on here that has improved your health to an impressive degree. With that being said, I just want to point out that your comment here is far more deterring than it is helpful to this young man. If you make him fill out the form just to tell him he might as well be dead because he's taken far too many drugs/meds/supplements, than i find your post to be unhelpful.
 
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I know you are a tremendous resource on here that has improved your health to an impressive degree. With that being said, I just want to point out that your comment here is far more deterring than it is helpful to this young man. If you make him fill out the form just to tell him he might as well be dead because he's taken far too many drugs/meds/supplements, than i find your post to be unhelpful.

I didn't "make him" do anything. He asked me for my opinion and I asked for more information to form my opinion. The truth is you don't like what I said but instead of saying what you disagree with you use slight ad hominem.
 

Jsaute21

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I didn't "make him" do anything. He asked me for my opinion and I asked for more information to form my opinion. The truth is you don't like what I said but instead of saying what you disagree with you use slight ad hominem.
Not true at all. I agree with most of your points, just wasn't in favor of the way you expressed them. It is easy to inform people while being polite and encouraging, even if you don't find their lifestyle to be healthy. I also don't have a lot of experience with severe nicotine addiction, but i can tell you that i have had absolutely no withdrawal issues from the organic snus i use. I take weeks off very frequently, as i stop craving them once a month typically.
 

Glassy

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It wasn’t a particularly helpful response though.

I don’t think his issues with potatoes and dairy have much to do his body fat levels which was what he was asking about. I’d say his weight and body fat is not even significant enough to mention (I’m guessing he probably already has some level of dismorphia about his current size and fat levels given what he has taken).

His experiments with exogenous testosterone & other AAS compounds look to have really suppressed his testosterone levels. His LH & FSH levels look pretty low still (ie still look like they’re recovering). His cortisol levels also look pretty bloody high to me and are probably contributing to the mess.

So he takes some nicotine and smokes a bit of weed every now and then. Not the healthiest but again it doesn’t seem particularly pertinent to me but he wasn’t asking for my opinion.

@Westside PUFAs could you briefly outline some of your trial and error experiments? All of a sudden I have weird reactions to potatoes and dairy and would greatly appreciate your input

Instead of asking what his reaction to potatoes and dairy was and how he prepared them, you decided to ask for a patient history. I get the feeling you did this to cleverly say that his issues were probably bigger than just potatoes and dairy, but I also suspect you were in part fobbing him off for whatever reason. I was surprised when he responded to a good portion of your questions and then a bit disappointed in your response. I just expected a little more thoughtfulness considering the time you took to type those original questions out and the time it took for him to respond and upload his blood tests.
 
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Instead of asking what his reaction to potatoes and dairy was and how he prepared them, you decided to ask for a patient history. I get the feeling you did this to cleverly say that his issues were probably bigger than just potatoes and dairy, but I also suspect you were in part fobbing him off for whatever reason. I was surprised when he responded to a good portion of your questions and then a bit disappointed in your response. I just expected a little more thoughtfulness considering the time you took to type those original questions out and the time it took for him to respond and upload his blood tests.

Have you'e ever seen the Peat quote "I start by trying to make a context clear, things should make no sense until they make the right sense?"

You don't know what someone is really living like on a daily basis. It is only logical to get more information.

It's free forum. You now have all of the info he gave as well. So why don't you go ahead and give him advice instead of just trolling me? Let's see how much better your advice is.

So many of you expect so much for nothing. You want someone to wipe your **** for you.
 
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"I start with trying to make a context clear, because everyone’s context is different, and meanings change when they are learned. Ideally, things should make no sense until they make the right sense."
 

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