Where Do I Start? So Many Things Wrong

[Zpol]

@dodg4kat have you been tested for Antiphospholipid antibody syndrome?
It's an autoimmune disease that can cause stroke. If so, then AIP (Autoimmune Protocol) diet might be beneficial.

Here's some ingredients to look out for in products:
Parabens
Phthalates
4-Methylbenzylidene
4-Methylbenzylidene known as 4-MBC
Petrochemicals
Lead
Triclosan

Also, most essential oils are estrogenic, especially clary sage, tea tree, melaluca, clove, and lavender.

(P.S. I started a conversation with you, in it I included a list of 'likely safe' products you could replace your current ones with.)

 

[Kartoffel]

And those products were recommended by a Naturopathic doc who was also helping me with thyroid...she is no longer someone I see for other reasons. I see a different Naturopathic doc for thyroid now. He recommended Great Lakes collagen and gelatin in my first appointment. But also recommended taking 5-htp..which caused me problems...so there's that.

I want a magic bullet please..lol..something that fixes everything!! (Mostly kidding, but it would make my day if there was one)

I would strongly advise you not to take any gelatine, since many people have quite severe problems with it. It feeds bad bacteria and probably contains a lot of endotoxin because it's made from skin. 5-htp is an even worse idea - if there is anything you don't want in your situation, it is increased brain serotonin. Probably the best advice I can give you is not to look for magic bullets, and to stop consulting with moronic doctors. Good natural progesterone (like progest-E) is probably the closest thing to a magic bullet you can find.

 

[danishispsychic]

From looking at you posts - here is what I would do. Make sure you eat some starch with your protein- from my experience my Cortisol goes crazy if I eat animal protein without starch AND sugar/ fructose. I would lose the artificial sweetener, add sugar to coffee ( kills the cortisol rush ) pull back on the gelatin a bit , I would get rid of ALL ORAL SUPPLEMENTS and add some Nacent Iodine and Mag transdermal and a LITTLE progesterone topically and see how you feel . Also , add in ORANGE JUICE.

My vitamin D is good. Was 80 when tested on March. I take Mg, D, K2, and Thorne brand multi with B complex daily/minerals daily.

I am still eating low carb-ish. Decaf coffee with coconut oil, half and half and hydrolyzed gelatin in a.m. 2 eggs with zucchini and mushrooms, cooked in butter or coconut oil. 1 cup blueberries. Or whole milk Faye Greek yogurt instead of eggs. Lunch is usually cheese and Turkey or ham slices with raw carrots and cup of whole milk. Dinner is a meat, veggies meal. Powerade zero, 32 oz, at some point in the day. Milk before bed, sometimes with a little cereal.

Cheese and butter are grass fed. Meat, eggs, yogurt, and milk are not. Grass fed/pastured is expensive, though from my understanding it is much lower in PUFA when grass fed.[/Q

 

[Kartoffel]

a LITTLE progesterone topically

Topical progesterone can be effective, if you have some local problem that you want to correct, but (a little) topical progesterone is unlikely to increase total progesterone levels, and have any significant systemic effects.

 

[CaliforniaKat]

From looking at you posts - here is what I would do. Make sure you eat some starch with your protein- from my experience my Cortisol goes crazy if I eat animal protein without starch AND sugar/ fructose. I would lose the artificial sweetener, add sugar to coffee ( kills the cortisol rush ) pull back on the gelatin a bit , I would get rid of ALL ORAL SUPPLEMENTS and add some Nacent Iodine and Mag transdermal and a LITTLE progesterone topically and see how you feel . Also , add in ORANGE JUICE.

This may be self- answering, but how much does organic/grass fed/pasture raised matter for milk, eggs, and meat? I'm kinda on a budget and have 2 huge teenage boys to feed too. I usually shop weekly meat, egg sales at a regular grocery store. Some of my fruits and veggies are out of my own garden where I use organic fertilizers, but the rest are from the grocery store, usually what is on sale.

 

[CaliforniaKat]

Also, orange juice and I generally don't agree. It is often too acidic and gives me tummy issues. I can tolerate several other juices tho.

 

[CaliforniaKat]

@dodg4kat have you been tested for Antiphospholipid antibody syndrome?
It's an autoimmune disease that can cause stroke. If so, then AIP (Autoimmune Protocol) diet might be beneficial.

I'm not sure. They tested me for everything under the sun while I was still in the hospital after the stroke. Everything that was tested came back negative. I dont have any other autoimmune symptoms though, other that high insulin and some extra pounds. I have had the thyroid tests for Hashi several times and those are always negative. Several women in my extended family are also hypothyroid and my mother has a genetic clotting disorder that causes DVT. I was tested and do not have it. My stroke was arterial in the brain stem.

 

[danishispsychic]

Also, orange juice and I generally don't agree. It is often too acidic and gives me tummy issues. I can tolerate several other juices tho.

I would suggest you read all of Ray Peats articles.

 

[danishispsychic]

Topical progesterone can be effective, if you have some local problem that you want to correct, but (a little) topical progesterone is unlikely to increase total progesterone levels, and have any significant systemic effects.

I suggested that so she could see how she felt on it. It depends on here her hormones are at.

 

[Travis]

I want a magic bullet please..lol..something that fixes everything!! (Mostly kidding, but it would make my day if there was one)

Ahh, you want the magic one I see. [Reaches into hat; removes the bottle next to the rabbit.] That would be . . . (6S)-5-methytetrahydrofolate! The way that tetrahydrofolate transforms serine into glycine—gaining a methyl group in the process—is truly amazing, with a molecular agility more perplexing than even thiamine's open-ring decarboxylation (non-Breslow). Brain folates are necessary cofactors needed to synthesize three of the four dNA bases, and through synthesizing guanine de novo it provides the precursor for tetrahydrobiopeterin: The cofactor needed for both tryptophan and tyrosine hydroxylase, the latter which synthesizes the dopamine required to suppress both prolactin and ACTH synthesis/release in the pituitary.

 

[Kartoffel]

I suggested that so she could see how she felt on it. It depends on here her hormones are at.

Yes, but what's the point of using it topically, then? You can just take a little orally instead of having to put a lot of sticky stuff on a large area of skin to get the same small amount that will reach general circulation.

 

[danishispsychic]

Yes, but what's the point of using it topically, then? You can just take a little orally instead of having to put a lot of sticky stuff on a large area of skin to get the same small amount that will reach general circulation.

topically is on the gums. orally is swallowing it.

 

[Kartoffel]

topically is on the gums. orally is swallowing it.

Well, unless you are using a super tiny amount that wouldn't have any noticeable effects anyway, putting it on the gums will be much the same as swallowing it, in the end

 

[Blossom]

Bromocriptine also works reliably to lower ACTH, and cortisol in turn:

Atkinson, A. Brew. "Six year remission of ACTH-dependent Cushing's syndrome using bromocriptine." Postgraduate medical journal (1985)
Lamberts, S. W. "The mechanism of the suppressive action of bromocriptine on adrenocorticotropin secretion in patients with Cushing's disease and Nelson's syndrome." The Journal of clinical endocrinology and metabolism (1980)​

It's been used for weight loss too although I'm not encouraging anyone to use it for this reason.

When a plausible mechanism is available, we must not forget to mention that mechanism

There are a couple of dopamine receptors, and the ones that bromocriptine seem to affect are DRD1 (dopamine receptor d1) and DRD2 (dopamine receptor d2)

Note: LSD will affect all dopamine subtypes. This does not make it "better", and in fact, we can argue that it has much more potential for unintended side effects.​

Bromocriptine is a strong DRD2 agonist (activator), and a weak DRD1 antagonist (de-activator). The net effect is however, strongly "dopaminergic", since it is considered a "Full Agonist" of DRD2.

Note: the levels of 0.6mg Bromocriptine per KG bodyweight is considered high. That's 42mg for a 70kg person.

Usually, you see doses of like 5-7.5mg for lowering prolactin. The underground use in the bodybuilding community used to be around 2.5 - 5mg a day, and even that had huge fat loss effects.

I'm pretty sure there are uses of up to 100mg a day. This drug is likely going to be pretty safe, even at the 40+mg doses -- both because there is precedent of prolonged high-doses without harmful side effects, and because the mechanism of action behind the drug is likely non-harmful to begin with.
​

Note that it is "whatever happens as a result of Dopamine Receptor signalling", that is the key benefit. Anything at all that will provide more Dopamine receptor activity, be it more dopamine (up to a point), or direct agonists like bromocriptine, will lead to all the benefits described above (and more).

Also note that dopamine receptor activity is higher in the evening and lower in the morning. Taking bromocriptine in the morning is the recommended time. Side effects are minimised when taking dopamine in the morning; it seems that you can throw off circadian dopamine homeostasis when you burst it up even higher than it should be in the evening.

Note: this will apply to any dopaminergic drug whatsoever. Most of such drugs should be easily searchable.

Probably one of the not-so-obvious drugs that is "dopaminergic" would be nicotine, since activation of the nicotinic acetyl-choline receptors have a feedback loop to the DA receptors.

Note the "nicotine and opiates" binding site. A robust signal from everything on the right side of the image is what you are looking for. So yes, all this talk about being "Lepstin sensitive" or "Insulin sensitive", also comes back to affect this system. We'll get to that below.

View attachment 3143

source: Figure 4 : Common cellular and molecular mechanisms in obesity and drug addiction : Nature Reviews Neuroscience​

You can see from the image above that Bromocriptine works pretty far downstream in the entire system (it bings at the receptors marked "D2").

Therefore, when we talk about a person has "good leptin sensitivity", "good insulin sensitivity", "being well fed", etc .... we are actually talking about upstream effects which may or may not affect what the hypothalamus thinks is a "safe state for further metabolism". What we are really concerned about is robust signalling at this hypothalamic site.

Bromocriptine will directly tell the hypothalamus that "all is well", and thereby trick it into doing all the things that correspond to a "Stress-free Metabolism". eg: D2 activation -> reduce corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH) to baseline -> cortisol now down -> thyroid now re-activated -> etc .. etc ....

That is a long way of saying that Bromocriptine fixes your metabolism .

Again, this is more evidence that cancer is nothing more than a defect in metabolism, spread chronically through enough cells to cause them to revert to the dumb template of fast energy and fast reproduction.

Anything that helps with Dopamine is a good thing. Having fun will boost your metabolism

In the absence of fun, a controlled treatment plan of Bromocriptine is actually very effective .

----
CREDITS

[Full Credit to Lyle McDonald for helping me understand this with his "Bromocriptine" booklet] Worth buying for sure -- Bromocriptine : Bodyrecomposition

.....

 

[CaliforniaKat]

@danishispsychic and @Kartoffel, I think I may try progesterone again.

On Amazon there is Progestelle, and also a product called Progest-avail. Do either of you have experience with them? Or can see (if you don't mind) whether ingredients are good? Amazon is my best friend for getting products delivered quickly. If neither look promising to you, I may order the Progest-e and wait for it.

@Blossom and @Travis, I live in the US, so bromocripine needs a script or an out of country purchase. And I'm not sure I want to add more prescription stuff to the mix until I'm off the things I mentioned further up in the thread.

The whole paragraph about methyltetrahyrofolate made my eyes glaze over. I'm pretty good with biology and chemistry but dang! What dose would be recommended and how often? If I were to try it...

On a related note, dinner was 2 corn tortilla fried in coconut oil, shrimp ceviche made at home with lime and salt, very ripe melon and 2% milk. I guess we will see how I feel tomorrow. I also bought cottage cheese, other ripe fruits, yogurt, and fruit juice and potatoes.

I don't have pufa oils in my house other than olive oil already. Only use it sparingly anyway. Have always cooked in bacon grease, coconut oil, or butter.

How important are pasture raised/grass fed/organic meats, eggs, and dairy?

 

[danishispsychic]

There is no magic bullet and I am not sure why you are looking for one. The body is complex. Also, since you are on a Ray Peat Forum, really studying his work as most the people on here have- is going to make you understand your body in a whole new way. Without a full set of bloods and scans that you have in your possession that you understand- you cant really have a baseline. You need to know where your hormones are, what your thyroid numbers are, your temps , your heart rate, your blood sugar, and just an all around CBC test. The more you know about your body , all the levels that you can, have basic scans of any problem areas, and really start to track your levels , you will know what you are dealing with. Once you really take it upon yourself to study - especially Ray Peats work, and it is so readily available on the internet , then no " doctor" of any kind can really misdiagnose you and you will not fall down many rabbit holes. What you have , IMO, is " learned helplessness " - a term Ray Peat uses a lot . I am not sure why you are " following " his dietary recommendations without knowing his work. I can tell you have you not studied his work by your questions. Going on a forum and looking for a " magic bullet" - well- just that term means that you might want to consider getting super scientific about all this rather than magical . Ray Peat has pretty much given the world a free gift of sharing his knowledge for free all over the web. Why not really do a deep dive and commit in a real way to learning about the body- it is a gift that keeps on giving really. There are no shortcuts. When you are eating something or using any kind of supplement or drug, you need to know its exact effects on the/your body if possible. If you don't know that DHEA converts to estrogen , you are not familiar with the basic hormone cascade. The magic bullet is knowledge of your body and its functions in a real way.

 

[Blossom]

How important are pasture raised/grass fed/organic meats, eggs, and dairy?

I personally just buy the best quality I can afford. In my area farmers markets often have some decent deals compared to regular stores. The best way I've found to get quality meat is to buy a 1/4 or half of a cow directly from the farmer. Most will give a discount for buying in bulk. Sometimes we split the cost with other family members and get just enough to last a couple months according to the budget.

I was using regular milk for awhile but recently stopped because I think I'm sensitive to the added vitamins and maybe homogenization. That doesn't seem to be the case for everyone so I'd just buy the best quality you can manage of milk you tolerate.

For eggs I buy from people I know that raise their own chickens.

I do sacrifice spending on other things to buy better food but that's just me. I'm super frugal but not so cheap that I'll eat low quality food regularly.

I understand your thoughts on adding drugs. I think dialing in diet/nutrition is a good place to start.

 

[CaliforniaKat]

Thank you @Blossom!

 

[CaliforniaKat]

I would suggest you read all of Ray Peats articles.

Because I don't want to drink orange juice and it doesn't agree with me, even after adding baking soda?

I will admit I am a newbie here and have read a ton. But will also admit I have barely scratched the surface of his work. I have read Kate Derring's book more than once. I have used hydrolyzed collagen for 8 months without problems and consume bone broth weekly. I do have labs for most things and have posted some interspersed thru this thread, but have not posted others. I take vitamin d because when I don't my vitamin d goes to hell and I take k2 because I take d. I have huge lipomas in both breasts, which are a sign is estrogen dominance, as are other period problems I have. My dhea was in the toilet prior to supplementing to try and offset cortisol issues, and is low again now, also likely due to high cortisol.

Docs may have a bad reputation here, but it was my belief they that should know more than I do. I have had a few bad experiences in the last number of years, which is why I am here. I feel like your post is berating me because I don't know what other, including you, know about Peat and his work. We all have to start from somewhere and this is where I am, for good or bad. Looking for the next right steps because there have been some huge wrong ones.

Much of Peat's work is exactly opposite to others I have read, and his body of work is huge. Cut me a little slack, eh?

The magic bullet phrase was said in jest, mostly. I know there isn't one, but boy would it be nice if there was. I have to start one step at a time. The question is still where to start, looking for advice from other people who have been metabolically broken or fixed issues that mainstream medicine couldn't.

 

[danishispsychic]

Because I don't want to drink orange juice and it doesn't agree with me, even after adding baking soda?

I will admit I am a newbie here and have read a ton. But will also admit I have barely scratched the surface of his work. I have read Kate Derring's book more than once. I have used hydrolyzed collagen for 8 months without problems and consume bone broth weekly. I do have labs for most things and have posted some interspersed thru this thread, but have not posted others. I take vitamin d because when I don't my vitamin d goes to hell and I take k2 because I take d. I have huge lipomas in both breasts, which are a sign is estrogen dominance, as are other period problems I have. My dhea was in the toilet prior to supplementing to try and offset cortisol issues, and is low again now, also likely due to high cortisol.

Docs may have a bad reputation here, but it was my belief they that should know more than I do. I have had a few bad experiences in the last number of years, which is why I am here. I feel like your post is berating me because I don't know what other, including you, know about Peat and his work. We all have to start from somewhere and this is where I am, for good or bad. Looking for the next right steps because there have been some huge wrong ones.

Much of Peat's work is exactly opposite to others I have read, and his body of work is huge. Cut me a little slack, eh?

The magic bullet phrase was said in jest, mostly. I know there isn't one, but boy would it be nice if there was. I have to start one step at a time. The question is still where to start, looking for advice from other people who have been metabolically broken or fixed issues that mainstream medicine couldn't.

Not berating you at all- Just that if you really get more knowledge of Ray Peats work- you will be able to understand your situation and through self experimentation be able to heal. You will have more power over your health than doctors do. It is a worth while journey.