What Is Your Opinion On Vaccines?

[Lee Simeon]

And why?

 

[mujuro]

I think there's something to be said of the scores of parents saying that their child basically transformed overnight, pleading for anyone to listen to them. I feel that it's an insult to the parents as much as the doctors who tell the patient their fibromyalgia is "just in your head". I knew of a fervent pro-vaccination father on a former board. Then it happened to his child. I really don't know what it is about vaccines that causes people to immediately mount such a hostile defense in favor of it. In my experience, typically it's those who believe science can do no wrong, that even lousy medicine is better than none at all.

 

[michael94]

I think they're based on a flawed understanding of the immune system and only do harm.

 

[paymanz]

To my knowledge Polio vaccine protected millions of children's from the disease, those vaccines are very necessary in my opinion.how you want prevent these dangerous illnesses without them?

Is ray against vaccination?

 

[Queequeg]

Study: Unvaccinated Children Healthier Than Vaccinated Kids – Doctors Agree

 

[marteagal]

With regard to vaccination against tick-borne encephalitis: In spring 2014, my mother received the first dose of that paricular kind of vaccination. The next days, her skin got itchy. Weeks later she was diagnosed with "spontaneous urticaria". With the symptoms still remaining after 6 weeks, the diagnosis changed to "chronic idiopathic urticaria". Later, when her symptoms got worse, she went to a dermatological clinic where a biopsy was performed. Since then, the label has been "urticarial leukocytoclastic vasculitis" or something. On the internet you can find links between vaccination and urticaria, and between urticaria and hypothyroidism (e.g., cases reported by Dr. David).
The cause-effect relationship is still not clear to me, but I think, my mother had been hypometabolic for a long time (probably decades) and vaccination was the trigger for progession of this state, resulting in her symptoms.
This coincided with coming across Peat's wisdom. Thus, in the last two years, I have tried several things to get her metabolism up and thereby hopefully curing her urticaria symptoms on top of other signs of hypometabolism: I put her on thyroid, T3, massive doses of progesterone, B vitamins, L-theanine and so on. Always hoping that anything would have any effect. Well, her symptoms are better now than two years ago but they are still there. I would like to see her symptom-free again.

Back to your question: Since witnessing the first-hand experience described above, I am shocked, postponing my own decision to get a tetanus booster inoculation. The last one was about 15 years ago. Luckily, thanks to a study posted on this forum, it seems that it's ok to refresh this specific protection by vaccination every ~30 years (instead of 10 years).

I don't know what I would do if I had children, however. Difficult decision.

 

[redlight]

Timeline | History of Vaccines

 

[Tarmander]

When the people who remember polio and that vaccine are dead, we will get some real progress and figure out what's what. Until then, nope.

 

[Prosper]

In modern tightly packed societies they are a necessary evil. Vaccinations are not risk-free, but the risks are smaller than having millions of unvaccinated humans living inside a few squaremiles.

 

[Queequeg]

RAY PEAT: And there is very little talk about the actual damage. But when you look in the literature, even in medical literature which is heavily biased against saying anything bad about vaccines, you see a tremendous amount of evidence showing that people who are vaccinated have a lot of very serious health problems. Everything from baldness, sterility and ovarian failure, psoriasis, autoimmune skin diseases, and those are things that show up pretty visibly and easily diagnosed. But long-range studies suggest that there will be a similar significant increase among vaccinated people of the really serious degenerative diseases that contain an autoimmune factor, such as dementia, cancer and heart disease, but those – even the mild problems aren’t mentioned when people are talking about the safety of vaccines.

I would take my chances with mumps. measles and rubella any day over the side effects of vaccines. I think the benefit of vaccines is way overblown as the vast majority of these contagious illnesses where wiped out by improved sanitation and health

 

[Queequeg]

 

[zztr]

When the people who remember polio and that vaccine are dead, we will get some real progress and figure out what's what. Until then, nope.

It's one of these subjects too complicated and nuanced for a meaningful public discussion. It's low info people screeching at each other all around, unfortunately. I know enough to know that I have no idea what an optimal public vaccine schedule would be.

The fundamental problem is political. We still don't know how to entrust sufficiently qualified experts on matters like these. The so-called experts in so many fields have clocked up really lousy track records over the last century.

 

[Tarmander]

It's one of these subjects too complicated and nuanced for a meaningful public discussion. It's low info people screeching at each other all around, unfortunately. I know enough to know that I have no idea what an optimal public vaccine schedule would be.

The fundamental problem is political. We still don't know how to entrust sufficiently qualified experts on matters like these. The so-called experts in so many fields have clocked up really lousy track records over the last century.

I agree. Also the whole concept of public health runs into problems, especially from a peat perspective. They have kind of argued themselves into a corner. Vaccines work, but somehow they only work if everyone gets them, justifying forcing people to get them. But if they work then shouldn't I be able to choose given my personal weaknesses? Vaccines have eliminated some diseases, but only because everyone takes their vaccines...well okay but what does it look like if that disease comes back? Aren't some diseases more virulent then others? So shouldn't the schedule be based on virulence?

 

[Queequeg]

It's one of these subjects too complicated and nuanced for a meaningful public discussion. It's low info people screeching at each other all around, unfortunately. I know enough to know that I have no idea what an optimal public vaccine schedule would be.

The fundamental problem is political. We still don't know how to entrust sufficiently qualified experts on matters like these. The so-called experts in so many fields have clocked up really lousy track records over the last century.

I am not sure its any more complicated than some of Ray's theories and certainly less complicated than Haidut's and Tyw's debates. With that said I think as a democracy we shouldn't avoid debating these subjects out amongst the public. Letting the experts take over has gotten us into big trouble in many areas, not just vaccines. GMOs, Aspertame, PUFAs, the Federal Debt, education, global warming are a few areas where trusting the experts really got us screwed.

 

[mujuro]

We still don't know how to entrust sufficiently qualified experts on matters like these. The so-called experts in so many fields have clocked up really lousy track records over the last century.

You should read Thomas Sowell's Intellectuals and Society.

 

[Ideonaut]

I think they're based on a flawed understanding of the immune system and only do harm.

Agreed. This Myocarditis after Vaccination – is good evidence of harm done-- 3% of heathy people react with myocarditis. I wonder what the best Peaty fix for that would be? -- the usual anti-inflammatory measures, I suppose.

 

[Lee Simeon]

I am not sure its any more complicated than some of Ray's theories and certainly less complicated than Haidut's and Tyw's debates. With that said I think as a democracy we shouldn't avoid debating these subjects out amongst the public. Letting the experts take over has gotten us into big trouble in many areas, not just vaccines. GMOs, Aspertame, PUFAs, the Federal Debt, education, global warming are a few areas where trusting the experts really got us screwed.

How did the climate experts taking over affect us in a poorly manner?

 

[Queequeg]

How did the climate experts taking over affect us in a poorly manner?

I don't want to hijack the thread but if you really look past the propaganda regarding climate change it's not nearly as well understood as claimed. There is much evidence of outright fraud to demonize CO2 which is actually very healthful for the atmosphere and all life on earth. Just like the other items I mentioned above, we are being consistently lied to by the "experts." To your point, efforts to reduce CO2 production have wasted enormous resources that could have been better spent on other issues, one being real environmental issues.

There is a long debate in this thread: What Do You Think About Climate Change?

"I think the general trend of the warming currently, the last 100 years or so is being driven by the sun’s normal cycle as far as it can be determined. There are not only the 11 year cycles but probably much larger cycles and several astronomers have been showing evidence that the solar constant has been increasing in recent decades enough to fully account for the planetary warming as far as that has been established." Ray Peat Minute 34. KMUD: 1-15-16 Water Quality, Atmospheric CO2, And Climate Change

 

[Lee Simeon]

What do you mean is real environmental issues?

 

[Queequeg]

What do you mean is real environmental issues?

Take your pick; GMOs, xenoestrogens, plastic garbage islands in oceans, pharmaceuticals in drinking water, sewage sludge used as fertilizer, mercury and aluminum in vaccines, toxic metals from waste to energy plants, EMFs, mercury in CFLs, radiation leaks from nuclear plants, all real imo. Man made climate change not real.