Vitamin A (retinol) Is Not Toxic To The Liver In High Doses

[haidut]

As a follow up on my previous post, this study looks at toxicity of retinol acetate in doses exceeding 300,000 IU per day taken for months and in combination with a SERM (tamoxifen) which itself is quite estrogenic and as such is a proven liver burden.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3218964

 

[Kray]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

Hi Haidut! New to this forum. Do you supplement Vit A? If so, what is your source of Vit A? I don't eat liver organ, just pate about once a week. Not very much A there probably.

I have been having dermatitis for several months now. Do you think a good Vit A supplement might help, or can you suggest a dietary source other than liver? Looking at one of my ancient books, "Nutrition Almanac", there was no mention back in the 70's when it was written that oral supplemental A was an issue, even up to 50,000 IU! However, Peat is wary of supplementing the oil-solubles orally and has said he rubs them into his skin. I recently started using Nutri-Sorb Vitamin A (2,500IU/drop retinol palmitate). I am so worried about toxicity taking it orally since Peat doesn't do it. Is his reason primarily because of excipients and additives in supplements, or the negative effects of buildup of the fat-solubles in the body? If it is ok to take a pure form orally and know what I am actually getting dosage-wise, (hard to tell when rubbing into skin), how much would you suggest to take to see if it helps curb my dermatitis? By the way, I am borderline hypo but don't take thyroid, and supplement with progest-e almost daily (about 20mg) and occasional pregnenolone (for menopause). Thanks for any suggestions!

 

[haidut]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

I take retinol palmitate or retinol acetate. My dosage have reached 100,000 IU daily for about 10 days until dandruff disappeared completely. I am not sure what to do for dermatitis, but I think vitamin A will help, maybe combined with 20mg-30mg zinc (as gluconate).
If Ray is wary of taking it orally it is probably b/c it circumvents the liver by taking it dermally and has higher bioavailability of half-life. The only thing I can recommend is try both methods and see which one improves your vision more. With 100,000 IU of retinol I got insane visual clarity within 2 hours of taking it and even some enhanced night vision in pitch black darkness. Maybe a blood check for liver enzymes can alleviate your fears. I have done them myself and have not seen any bad effects even at 100,000 IU daily.

 

[j.]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

When Ray took nutrisorb orally, I think it gave him a headache as soon as it touched his tongue. He has a susceptibility to migraines I believe. He takes it topically. It shouldn't be exposed to the sun.

I wonder though if people who can't take it orally could avoid the problems by putting the nutrisorb in a gel cap, so it isn't absorbed before reaching the stomach.

I take micellized vitamin A, though not nutrisorb, orally, a presentation that comes in a gel cap.

 

[Ben]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

I take retinol palmitate or retinol acetate. My dosage have reached 100,000 IU daily for about 10 days until dandruff disappeared completely. I am not sure what to do for dermatitis, but I think vitamin A will help, maybe combined with 20mg-30mg zinc (as gluconate).
If Ray is wary of taking it orally it is probably b/c it circumvents the liver by taking it dermally and has higher bioavailability of half-life. The only thing I can recommend is try both methods and see which one improves your vision more. With 100,000 IU of retinol I got insane visual clarity within 2 hours of taking it and even some enhanced night vision in pitch black darkness. Maybe a blood check for liver enzymes can alleviate your fears. I have done them myself and have not seen any bad effects even at 100,000 IU daily.

Where did you buy pure vitamin A, or vitamin A in a dermal preparation?

 

[charlie]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

I am not sure what to do for dermatitis, but I think vitamin A will help, maybe combined with 20mg-30mg zinc (as gluconate).

Dandruff is dermatitis.

 

[haidut]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

I take retinol palmitate or retinol acetate. My dosage have reached 100,000 IU daily for about 10 days until dandruff disappeared completely. I am not sure what to do for dermatitis, but I think vitamin A will help, maybe combined with 20mg-30mg zinc (as gluconate).
If Ray is wary of taking it orally it is probably b/c it circumvents the liver by taking it dermally and has higher bioavailability of half-life. The only thing I can recommend is try both methods and see which one improves your vision more. With 100,000 IU of retinol I got insane visual clarity within 2 hours of taking it and even some enhanced night vision in pitch black darkness. Maybe a blood check for liver enzymes can alleviate your fears. I have done them myself and have not seen any bad effects even at 100,000 IU daily.

Where did you buy pure vitamin A, or vitamin A in a dermal preparation?

I buy mine from Sigma-Adrich or Fisher Scientific depending on which one has a sale.

 

[Lin]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

Everyone considering taking high vitamin A needs to listen to Ray's radio broadcast from 2-21-2014. He talks about vitamin A near the end (sorry, I didn't write down the time.) He says safe levels depend on the status of the thyroid. Too much vit A is antagonist to thyroid. Apparently thyroid hormone and vit A are carried on the same protein in the blood. It can act like a PUFA in competing with thyroid. Increasing thyroid hormone increases your requirement for vit A.
After listening, I decided not to take vit A at all until I can get some thyroid supplement, since my own thyroid levels are below normal!

 

[Kray]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

Sorry if this has been already answered, but checking the Nutri-sorb vitamin A, retinol palmitate, it is synthetic. Does that make it any less, or more, toxic if taken internally? All of these posts on the high doses make me wary of ingesting it. How much do you think it might take applied dermally to equal, say, 25,000IU taken orally? I am supplementing A for dermatitis. Also, if I consume a lot of dairy in the way of whole raw milk, cheeses, cottage cheese, non-whey yogurt, are these substantial sources of vitamin A (so far as I know, none of the brands I buy are fortified with vitamin A) so as to minimize the need for high supplemental doses? Feedback from any of you who have referenced dosing with vitamin A would be most appreciated!

 

[Kray]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

Everyone considering taking high vitamin A needs to listen to Ray's radio broadcast from 2-21-2014. He talks about vitamin A near the end (sorry, I didn't write down the time.) He says safe levels depend on the status of the thyroid. Too much vit A is antagonist to thyroid. Apparently thyroid hormone and vit A are carried on the same protein in the blood. It can act like a PUFA in competing with thyroid. Increasing thyroid hormone increases your requirement for vit A.
After listening, I decided not to take vit A at all until I can get some thyroid supplement, since my own thyroid levels are below normal!

Thanks for that information-- very helpful!

 

[j.]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

Sorry if this has been already answered, but checking the Nutri-sorb vitamin A, retinol palmitate, it is synthetic. Does that make it any less, or more, toxic if taken internally? All of these posts on the high doses make me wary of ingesting it. How much do you think it might take applied dermally to equal, say, 25,000IU taken orally? I am supplementing A for dermatitis. Also, if I consume a lot of dairy in the way of whole raw milk, cheeses, cottage cheese, non-whey yogurt, are these substantial sources of vitamin A (so far as I know, none of the brands I buy are fortified with vitamin A) so as to minimize the need for high supplemental doses? Feedback from any of you who have referenced dosing with vitamin A would be most appreciated!

I reacted badly to all natural presentations of vitamin A I tried, although I just tried two (Country Life Natural, and Carlson Natural). I also reacted badly to Carlson Synthetic. The one I take and doesn't produce bad reactions is a local brand of micellized vitamin A. I also ordered nutrisorb, which I'll try next.

In theory, a natural vitamin A shouldn't provoke bad reactions. But most supplements come with other bad things, I think not listed on the label, unfortunately.

 

[Kray]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

Can you provide the brand of micellized vitamin A, or an alternative brand if I can't get yours in my neighborhood?

When you say "natural vitamin A shouldn't provoke bad reactions", are you referring to the Carlson and Country Life as examples, and I assume, from fish oil? And were your bad reactions from this natural form? May I ask how you reacted so that I might be aware ahead of time?

You are going to try Nutrisorb? I don't know if you read what I mentioned above, but I contacted Interplexus, the company who sells it, and it is not a natural form, but synthetic. Will you take this orally, or apply it on the skin? The dosage per bottle label says 1 drop in a glass of water. 2500IU. Not much. Thanks-

 

[j.]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

When you say "natural vitamin A shouldn't provoke bad reactions", are you referring to the Carlson and Country Life as examples, and I assume, from fish oil? And were your bad reactions from this natural form?

Yes and yes.

May I ask how you reacted so that I might be aware ahead of time?

Like if I had an allergy to it. Headaches, difficulty to concentrate, abnormal breathing. More sensitivity to dairy.

You are going to try Nutrisorb? I don't know if you read what I mentioned above, but I contacted Interplexus, the company who sells it, and it is not a natural form, but synthetic. Will you take this orally, or apply it on the skin? The dosage per bottle label says 1 drop in a glass of water. 2500IU. Not much. Thanks-

Yes, I'll try it because I reacted badly to the natural versions, so now I'm going to try more synthetic versions.

I'll try it orally first mixed with milk. If it produces bad reactions I'll try putting it in a gel cap. If it doesn't work, I'll try another brand or continue using the one I'm using now. I don't want to use it on the skin because you have to be careful to not expose your skin to the sun and I don't want to be bothered with that.

 

[Kray]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

Thanks for all that! Do you think liver is the only source of appreciable vitamin A? Not enough in dairy to supply vitamin A needs?

 

[j.]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

Dairy fat and eggs are good sources, but compared to liver, they don't provide much. The amount of vitamin A from liver changes from animal to animal. I think chicken liver has little vitamin A, relatively. Turkey liver has the most of those I've seen.

 

[Kray]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

Good to know, "j", thanks. Thought as much. On the Nutrisorb, does the milk hide the flavor of the A or help it assimilate better? How much do you normally take of the various fat-solubles, A, E, D, and K? Do you take all of them orally? What doses do you suggest for maintenance purposes? Thanks!

 

[j.]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

I take vitamin A by symptoms, mainly dandruff. My average I think is 25,000 IU. I take some vitamin K if I take aspirin. And D end E I'm not taking now, ran out of E.

 

[Kray]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

Thanks again "j". Hope we'll both do well on the Nutrisorb. If you supplement 25kiu, it might not be the most economical as the bottle is quite small. Don't remember how many servings per bottle. But many people have suggested it as a good source. And if dermatitis and dandruff are one in the same, here's to getting rid of both! I'll keep you posted!

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Re: Vitamin A (retinol) is not toxic to the liver in high do

The only thing I trust is liver.

 

[Nick Ireland]

Just reading this thread. I've been taking vitamin a at 15,000 iu per day in a split dose. I take 6000 of D in a split dose for the synergy, especially hormone optimisation. My very persistent and nasty body acne has completely subsided in a matter of days. There was little effect with D alone, so I added in the A with great results. My acne was cystic and I was getting new body hair all of after going on trt for six months. I quit that trt and went totally Peat. Recovered my hormones to better than original levels within weeks - so anyone who says trt is permanent is wrong. Also, this idea that sugar suppresses testosterone production is not my experience. The sugar is actually a great way to keep SHBG down so that more testosterone is free to activate receptors. I used to have a shbg of 83 on a low carb paleo diet! It's 30 now.
I did notice a little depression sensation at anything over 15,000 iu of A - very similar to the feeling that aromatase inhibitor Arimidex gives me. Combined A and D and E are, for me, the best anti estrogen I've ever experienced - much better than any drugs for that job and I've tried them.
I loved Haidut's comment about visual clarity with the A. I noticed it yesterday - a sort of hyper reality for a few hours.
I'm taking methyl b12 too, and it's making a serious difference to my health situation. I'm in the middle of the 'detox' period mixed with regular hints of good things to come. B12 converts carotene to vitamin A. I used to take a lot of carotene and never felt I was getting A, but now I know it was also hammering my thyroid. I note that the methyl b12 seems to clear out the liver like a power hose on graffiti. Not totally pleasant, but clearly there was a huge unmethylated backlog in my system. I did a blood test after supplementing normal synthetic b12 several years ago. My levels were sky high, but it was as if they were doing absolutely nothing, just accumulating in my blood. Now I know why. It's similar for vitamin D3. The subsequent 25ohd blood serum metabolite is useless without vitamin K2 to activate it. Last year I built up 25ohd blood levels to 140 after short term high dose therapy - it was accumulating because I had no K2 in my diet, so I used K2 alone for a few months to clear that backlog.