Unable To Stop My Extreme Serotonin Toxicity

[nostalgic]

2 months ago I got serotonin syndrome from my Lexapro, and since then I've been unbelievably sensitive to anything that raises serotonin.

Some products that I've used to try to lower my serotonin have given me a gastritis, which in turn has made me unable to even eat rice and potatoes without getting much worse symptoms of serotonin toxicity. I did take BCAA an hour before eating the rice today and at first it seemed to work, but several hours later I got the damn symptoms anyway, I assume that's when the BCAA stopped working.

I have read about people being sensitive to high tryptophan foods but this is ridiculous. I'm afraid I will die from this and it just feels like a bad joke. There's something very wrong with me.

Things I have tried:

Cyproheptadine (started the gastritis)
BCAA (this destroyed my dopamine too much when taken alone, and tyrosine worsened the gastritis)
Low tryptophan diet
Hydrolysed collagen (taken on an empty stomach, gave me insane headaches after a couple of days, not sure how it affected the gastritis)

Any help is much appreciated. Would it be possible to get tryptophan free TPN that contained the rest of everything else in form of nutrition? I'm thinking worst case scenario here.

Thank you for reading.

 

[DaveFoster]

"Progesterone, thyroid, and niacinamide (not nicotinic acid or inositol hexanicotinate) are other safe substances that help to reduce serotonin formation, and/or accelerate its elimination. (Niacinamide seems to increase serotonin uptake.)"

Serotonin: Effects in disease, aging and inflammation

 

[Frankdee20]

One thing I experienced and learned from using antidepressant, and experienced a negative reaction from it : you become hypersensitive to a lot of things, natural and artificial, benign and otherwise. Nobody can tell you for sure when it will dissipate or how, but only time will heal you.

 

[nostalgic]

"Progesterone, thyroid, and niacinamide (not nicotinic acid or inositol hexanicotinate) are other safe substances that help to reduce serotonin formation, and/or accelerate its elimination. (Niacinamide seems to increase serotonin uptake.)"

Serotonin: Effects in disease, aging and inflammation

Thanks. Do you mean raw thyroid? I'll pick up some Niacinamide and thyroid then, unable to get ahold of progesterone.

One thing I experienced and learned from using antidepressant, and experienced a negative reaction from it : you become hypersensitive to a lot of things, natural and artificial, benign and otherwise. Nobody can tell you for sure when it will dissipate or how, but only time will heal you.

The thing is that I'm unable to eat anything atm without aggravating my symptoms and I'm afraid that I'll suffer from malnutrition eventually. I'll try water fast for a few days to get my serotonin level in check and then start very slow with rice again.

 

[Mito]

Some products that I've used to try to lower my serotonin have given me a gastritis.

You could consider zinc carnosine for the gastritis. https://fixyourgut.com/the-magic-bullet-supplement-for-stomach-issues-zinc-carnosine/

 

[DaveFoster]

Thanks. Do you mean raw thyroid? I'll pick up some Niacinamide and thyroid then, unable to get ahold of progesterone.



The thing is that I'm unable to eat anything atm without aggravating my symptoms and I'm afraid that I'll suffer from malnutrition eventually. I'll try water fast for a few days to get my serotonin level in check and then start very slow with rice again.

Thyroid means T3, triiodothyronine, which should usually be taken with thyroxin (T4).

 

[nostalgic]

You could consider zinc carnosine for the gastritis. https://fixyourgut.com/the-magic-bullet-supplement-for-stomach-issues-zinc-carnosine/

I'll look that up, thanks.

Thyroid means T3, triiodothyronine, which should usually be taken with thyroxin (T4).

Thanks again.

 

[DuggaDugga]

Serotonin is metabolized in the lungs so avoid smoke, pollution, and any sort of oxidative stress to the lungs. Glutathione is the primary antioxidant and vasodilator lungs, so managing it's reduced status is important.
Avoid starchy foods for a couple weeks to see if that helps. You can always reintroduce them later. Daily raw carrot, mushrooms a couple times a week should provide antiseptic properties to keep gut bacteria in check. Good that you're keeping your dietary amino acid profile balanced but so make sure you're getting enough protein in general or your liver function and glutathione status will suffer.

 

[Frankdee20]

Thanks. Do you mean raw thyroid? I'll pick up some Niacinamide and thyroid then, unable to get ahold of progesterone.



The thing is that I'm unable to eat anything atm without aggravating my symptoms and I'm afraid that I'll suffer from malnutrition eventually. I'll try water fast for a few days to get my serotonin level in check and then start very slow with rice again.

Yeah that's what I'm saying, you end up reacting to the most benign things like food. You won't get malnourished unless it persists and prevents you from eating certain things indefinitely. I had the same issues, every little food, or whatever would make me relive my experience. ***t is crazy

 

[nostalgic]

Serotonin is metabolized in the lungs so avoid smoke, pollution, and any sort of oxidative stress to the lungs. Glutathione is the primary antioxidant and vasodilator lungs, so managing it's reduced status is important.
Avoid starchy foods for a couple weeks to see if that helps. You can always reintroduce them later. Daily raw carrot, mushrooms a couple times a week should provide antiseptic properties to keep gut bacteria in check. Good that you're keeping your dietary amino acid profile balanced but so make sure you're getting enough protein in general or your liver function and glutathione status will suffer.

I've read that raw carrot can be hard on the stomach: Raw Carrots and Stomach Pain

so I'm not sure about eating it atm. I certainly haven't gotten the recommended amount of protein the last 2 months but I think it's fine to eat less for a while. Saw an article that some people on an island only ate 39g protein a day and they were all very healthy. If only I could tolerate potatoes and rice again soon.

Yeah that's what I'm saying, you end up reacting to the most benign things like food. You won't get malnourished unless it persists and prevents you from eating certain things indefinitely. I had the same issues, every little food, or whatever would make me relive my experience. ***t is crazy

I really appreciate you sharing your experience. I have been eating very low amounts of protein the last 2 months in form of BCAA and a couple of days of collagen, as well as about 20g protein from rice, potatoes, and carrots. I guess it's not acute yet, but this ***t scares the life out of me, especially since I've been getting worse - probably due to the previously mentioned gastritis. So I'll just try to hang in there and hopefully it'll improve eventually. I think I'll stay away from any supplements for now to not irritate my stomach more.

 

[DuggaDugga]

I've read that raw carrot can be hard on the stomach: Raw Carrots and Stomach Pain

so I'm not sure about eating it atm. I certainly haven't gotten the recommended amount of protein the last 2 months but I think it's fine to eat less for a while. Saw an article that some people on an island only ate 39g protein a day and they were all very healthy. If only I could tolerate potatoes and rice again soon.

I really appreciate you sharing your experience. I have been eating very low amounts of protein the last 2 months in form of BCAA and a couple of days of collagen, as well as about 20g protein from rice, potatoes, and carrots. I guess it's not acute yet, but this ***t scares the life out of me, especially since I've been getting worse - probably due to the previously mentioned gastritis. So I'll just try to hang in there and hopefully it'll improve eventually. I think I'll stay away from any supplements for now to not irritate my stomach more.

livestrong isn't exactly a reputable source of information, in my opinion.
There are a handful studies that have directly studied the impact of raw carrot on bacteria in the colon.
Antimicrobial activity of shredded carrot extracts on food-borne bacteria and yeast. - PubMed - NCBI
If you're concerned with digestive issues, grating them and consuming with coconut oil should aid in their digestion.

 

[ddjd]

2 months ago I got serotonin syndrome from my Lexapro, and since then I've been unbelievably sensitive to anything that raises serotonin.

Have you looked into tianeptine?

 

[EIRE24]

livestrong isn't exactly a reputable source of information, in my opinion.
There are a handful studies that have directly studied the impact of raw carrot on bacteria in the colon.
Antimicrobial activity of shredded carrot extracts on food-borne bacteria and yeast. - PubMed - NCBI
If you're concerned with digestive issues, grating them and consuming with coconut oil should aid in their digestion.

This is not just pure carrot though, is it? "Purified ethanolic extracts of peeled and shredded carrot"

 

[nostalgic]

livestrong isn't exactly a reputable source of information, in my opinion.
There are a handful studies that have directly studied the impact of raw carrot on bacteria in the colon.
Antimicrobial activity of shredded carrot extracts on food-borne bacteria and yeast. - PubMed - NCBI
If you're concerned with digestive issues, grating them and consuming with coconut oil should aid in their digestion.

I have another question: you told me to stay away from starches, but wouldn't that mean I had to ingest a lot more tryptophan?

Have you looked into tianeptine?

I'll ask my doctor about it but any medication I've tried so far has made me a lot worse, I can't seem to tolerate them at all.

 

[Diokine]

I recently read a study where they gave mice an LD50 injection of endotoxin, then 4 hours later an injection of tryptophan. These mice all died in a few hours (opposed to ~50% of them dying 18-36 hour) after the tryptophan injection, essentially from serotonin syndrome (extreme convulsions, hyperthermia, arrhythmia.) Cyproheptadine completely blocked this effect, by blocking the action of the 5-HT2 receptor and preserving the integrity of the blood brain barrier. The idea was that endotoxin severely disrupts the synthesis of the enzyme tryptophan oxygenase, which is able to cleave part of the amino acid and leave less available for subsequent hydroxylation to serotonin.

Persistent endotoxin exposure will reduce the ability of cortisol to induce tryptophan oxygenase, and so in general tryptophan metabolism is severely disrupted which is a requisite for many types of disease. Inflammation of the gut will lead to reduced tryptophan absorption, leaving more available for degradation by bacterial populations, creating indoles and polyamines as well as increasing the expression of indoleamine oxygenase. This is probably why you are so sensitive. In this situation it is actually very common to have a chronic tryptophan deficiency, which can cause issues with the liver and kidneys.

It would probably help to have a diet containing zero or close to zero starch, and to do as much as you can to reduce the population of disease causing bacteria in the gut. Some forms of antibiotics (neomycin, streptomycin) can alter the properties of endotoxin, rendering them less toxic. Salicylates (aspirin) have also shown to be helpful, as well as glycine. Chronic exposure to endotoxin will also precipitate persistent adrenergic activity and HPA dysregulation, antiadrenergic compounds may be helpful in this case.

 

[nostalgic]

I recently read a study where they gave mice an LD50 injection of endotoxin, then 4 hours later an injection of tryptophan. These mice all died in a few hours (opposed to ~50% of them dying 18-36 hour) after the tryptophan injection, essentially from serotonin syndrome (extreme convulsions, hyperthermia, arrhythmia.) Cyproheptadine completely blocked this effect, by blocking the action of the 5-HT2 receptor and preserving the integrity of the blood brain barrier. The idea was that endotoxin severely disrupts the synthesis of the enzyme tryptophan oxygenase, which is able to cleave part of the amino acid and leave less available for subsequent hydroxylation to serotonin.

Persistent endotoxin exposure will reduce the ability of cortisol to induce tryptophan oxygenase, and so in general tryptophan metabolism is severely disrupted which is a requisite for many types of disease. Inflammation of the gut will lead to reduced tryptophan absorption, leaving more available for degradation by bacterial populations, creating indoles and polyamines as well as increasing the expression of indoleamine oxygenase. This is probably why you are so sensitive. In this situation it is actually very common to have a chronic tryptophan deficiency, which can cause issues with the liver and kidneys.

It would probably help to have a diet containing zero or close to zero starch, and to do as much as you can to reduce the population of disease causing bacteria in the gut. Some forms of antibiotics (neomycin, streptomycin) can alter the properties of endotoxin, rendering them less toxic. Salicylates (aspirin) have also shown to be helpful, as well as glycine. Chronic exposure to endotoxin will also precipitate persistent adrenergic activity and HPA dysregulation, antiadrenergic compounds may be helpful in this case.

Thanks a lot for the informative reply. Can you please recommend me what I could eat? I have no clue what would work in my case.

I'm afraid any drug will wreak havoc on my gastritis so I dunno about trying anything except maybe Tianeptine.

 

[Amazoniac]

I believe that most of the water-soluble vitamins are absorbed faster than amino acids. If I'm not wrong, it's the NAD that they're after to supply the growth-factor, and since there's always a fraction of protein that escapes digestion, there will always be some tryptophan to provide energy and support bacterial growth.

Another approach is to simply avoid animal protein for a while, for being more difficult to digest, until you regain strength to normalize the intestines. But balancing and getting enough of the fat-soluble vitamins (and direct cofactors) can be enough to improve intestinal barrier and antimicrobial functions without having to endure any restriction.

 

[nostalgic]

I believe that most of the water-soluble vitamins are absorbed faster than amino acids. If I'm not wrong, it's the NAD that they're after to supply the growth-factor, and since there's always a fraction of protein that escapes digestion, there will always be some tryptophan to provide energy and support bacterial growth.

Another approach is to simply avoid animal protein for a while, for being more difficult to digest, until you regain strength to normalize the intestines. But balancing and getting enough of the fat-soluble vitamins (and direct cofactors) can be enough to improve intestinal barrier and antimicrobial functions without having to endure any restriction.

The multivitamin pill I took increased the serotonin for me but that was probably due to some additive. What vitamins would you recommend? There's no way I can eat any tryptophan heavy foods at all atm, I can't even tolerate the amount of tryptophan in rice.

 

[Amazoniac]

I can't even tolerate the amount of tryptophan in rice

A large carbohydrate meal increases the ratio... | Ray Peat Forum

 

[What-a-Riot]

There are few things posted here about famotidine (Pepcid) resolving serotonin syndrome. Maybe Pepcid and a little aspirin would help, and some diphenhydramine (Benadryl) if they cause any histamine issues