Took Pregnenolone, And Now Acne/period Issues Have Returned

[answersfound]

Ah yes the classic pregnenolone dilemma. "But Ray says people have taken it up to 500 and 1000 mg" I hear you asking. "Why does it make me angry?" Pregnenolone is magic. It really is. Do I know why it works sometimes and why it does not? No. But it here is what I have found to be the trick. Only take pregnenolone while on Benadryl or Cyproheptadine. The anticholinergic effect of these drugs will prevent the bad reactions.

Thank you answersfound!

I recently bought cyproheptadine (periactin) and have started on 1mg in the evenings. Is this enough to take with say, 10mg of pregnenolone?

Have you experienced any correlation with the amount of cyproheptadine needed and amount of pregnenolone taken?

Cyproheptadine is extremely powerful. I think .5 mg is usually enough, but if 1 mg is working then stick with that. And in regards to Pregnenolone, it is highly individual. Only you will be able to determine how much you need. Always go by feel, and don't try and figure the right "correlation."

 

[haidut]

Yeah I am confused now. Did you have a source saying pregnenolone can convert to androgens, because based on this Ray quote it doesn't sound like it? Would it be more correct to say your adrenals are compensating for low thyroid by producing androgen hormones - nothing to do with pregnenolone?

I wonder if the acne issues just came from the pregnenolone raising metabolism without enough A. Do you eat lots of vitamin A?

I don't know where shorter cycles fit in.

I got this from Wikipedia (not exactly reliable, but it was the first I found):

It's only when I take pregnenolone that I get acne and shorter cycles (which is almost taking me back to my pre-cynoplus days) - so looking at the image above, it would seem that my body is converting DHEA into androgens/estrogen - but my body doesn't have enough of the anti androgen / estrogen antagonisers.

Even with taking 15 drops of Progest-E per day, the acne / cycles was still prevalent.

I take 25000iu of Vit. A applied directly to my skin.

I do still think that there is a pituitary / hypothalamus element involved (which I understand control the production of hormones) which favours converting pregnenolone into DHEA and then androgens.

How much progesterone is in these 15 drops? In order to properly balance the progesterone and pregnenolone I suggest you take them both topically and in a ratio 1:2 i favor of progesterone. So, once you figure out how much progesterone is in 15 drops then spread it on your skin and sprinkle pregnenolone on top of it so that it is 1/2 of the progesterone dose. Then rub the mixture into the skin.
Keep in mind that topical hormones are mostly metabolized intracrinally (peripheral tissues) while taken orally can get metabolized by liver and even stored there when in excess.
If you take hormones I suggest taking all of them via the same route. Mixing oral and topical hormones is generally not a good idea due to unpredictable results.
Btw, I will be releasing a product soon that has pegnenolone + DHEA in lower doses and can be taken topically. Based on blood tests I have seen from females, it does not affect androgen metabolism when taken in low doses but does increase progesterone.

 

[nattyjules]

How much progesterone is in these 15 drops? In order to properly balance the progesterone and pregnenolone I suggest you take them both topically and in a ratio 1:2 i favor of progesterone. So, once you figure out how much progesterone is in 15 drops then spread it on your skin and sprinkle pregnenolone on top of it so that it is 1/2 of the progesterone dose. Then rub the mixture into the skin.
Keep in mind that topical hormones are mostly metabolized intracrinally (peripheral tissues) while taken orally can get metabolized by liver and even stored there when in excess.
If you take hormones I suggest taking all of them via the same route. Mixing oral and topical hormones is generally not a good idea due to unpredictable results.
Btw, I will be releasing a product soon that has pegnenolone + DHEA in lower doses and can be taken topically. Based on blood tests I have seen from females, it does not affect androgen metabolism when taken in low doses but does increase progesterone.

Thank you for your reply haidut! I take 15 drops Progest-E 3 x per day - so that's about 45mg of progesterone?

In which case I'd need to take 22.5mg pregnenolone simultaneously - I'm going off to find the topical cream now!

Please keep me posted when you release the supplement, I'd be very keen to try it :)

 

[ilovethesea]

Just found this. Ray did comment about pregnenolone steal, this was on Danny's site.

PREGNENOLONE 'STEAL' THEORY
Regarding the pregnenolone steal theory, It would be interesting to know who started that, it's a mechanical way of thinking about physiology that ignores the things that really matter. Thyroid hormone, vitamin A, and cholesterol support the formation of pregnenolone, and the well nourished body is able to make large adjustments in these, to minimize the need for cortisol. In health, enough pregnenolone and progesterone are produced to inhibit the stress systems, for example by inhibiting the release of ACTH. When something prevents the formation of pregnenolone and progesterone, rising ACTH will increase its production as conditions permit, but if something, such as thyroid hormone, is lacking, the ACTH will increase cortisol, often with DHEA and the androgens increasing too, if resources permit; sometimes the stressed system is able to sustain only cortisol and aldosterone production, and that leads to degenerative problems.

This was Mittir's comment on the thread where that was mentioned. viewtopic.php?t=2221

In theory cortisol and estrogen can be derived from pregnenolone and progesterone.
He has said that body produces pregnenolone and progesterone to combat stress as
a first defense, when body cant make these hormones, it resort to second option, that
is cortisol. Low thyroid, lack of vitamin A and low cholesterol are main cause of
decrease in pregnenolone, progesterone and dhea. He has specifically said that
in low thyroid people excess dhea supplement can easily convert to estrogen.
Progesterone lowers estrogen and this improves thyroid function.
He has said that pregnenolone and thyroid are safer supplement.
He also suggested not to use progesterone with enlarged thyroid gland
and not to use thyroid supplement with low cholesterol.
Here is his article on 3 hormones.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/th ... ones.shtml

 

[ilovethesea]

I think pregnenolone is actually working for me.

I have been taking it everyday for the past week. I take 400mg in divided doses. When I used it before, I would only take 100-200mg. I read a thread by Blossom saying that the higher doses did the trick and I think she is on to something.

I am due to get my period today or tomorrow, and normally (or at least since the T3 shortage) I'd be getting cystic acne and oilier skin over the past week. This has not happened at all, to my surprise.

I've taken 1-2mg cyproheptadine nightly for over a year so maybe that is a factor.

Also, a week ago I started taking aspirin before bed, so possibly that helped lower androgens/estrogens too. I hadn't done regular aspirin before.

Not quite sure which is the thing that is working, or both! But it definitely seems like the androgen spike did not happen this month...

 

[haidut]

I think pregnenolone is actually working for me.

I have been taking it everyday for the past week. I take 400mg in divided doses. When I used it before, I would only take 100-200mg. I read a thread by Blossom saying that the higher doses did the trick and I think she is on to something.

I am due to get my period today or tomorrow, and normally (or at least since the T3 shortage) I'd be getting cystic acne and oilier skin over the past week. This has not happened at all, to my surprise.

I've taken 1-2mg cyproheptadine nightly for over a year so maybe that is a factor.

Also, a week ago I started taking aspirin before bed, so possibly that helped lower androgens/estrogens too. I hadn't done regular aspirin before.

Not quite sure which is the thing that is working, or both! But it definitely seems like the androgen spike did not happen this month...

Good to hear it is working for you. Have you done any blood tests? Higher does of pregnenolone saturate the pathways for conversion into DHEA and the excess gets converted into progesterone. This free study does a great job of explaining the process.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 1349.x/pdf

So, based on the study and personal observations androgenic effects of pregnenolone (if any) would be expected to happen at low doses (<10mg per dose) and higher doses would convert almost completely into progesterone, allopregnanolone, pregnanolone, etc.

 

[nattyjules]

Good to hear it is working for you. Have you done any blood tests? Higher does of pregnenolone saturate the pathways for conversion into DHEA and the excess gets converted into progesterone. This free study does a great job of explaining the process.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 1349.x/pdf

So, based on the study and personal observations androgenic effects of pregnenolone (if any) would be expected to happen at low doses (<10mg per dose) and higher doses would convert almost completely into progesterone, allopregnanolone, pregnanolone, etc.

This is so intriguing! Would I be correct in assuming that if my thyroid function still isn't up to scratch, my body then resorts to cortisol?

When I've taken large doses of pregnenolone before (100mg) - I fell asleep easily enough but always woke up around 2/3am and couldn't fall asleep again until 5/6am - which I understand is a symptom of excess cortisol?

I'm almost terrified to try pregnenolone at a 400mg dose!

 

[nattyjules]

I think pregnenolone is actually working for me.

I have been taking it everyday for the past week. I take 400mg in divided doses. When I used it before, I would only take 100-200mg. I read a thread by Blossom saying that the higher doses did the trick and I think she is on to something.

I am due to get my period today or tomorrow, and normally (or at least since the T3 shortage) I'd be getting cystic acne and oilier skin over the past week. This has not happened at all, to my surprise.

I've taken 1-2mg cyproheptadine nightly for over a year so maybe that is a factor.

Also, a week ago I started taking aspirin before bed, so possibly that helped lower androgens/estrogens too. I hadn't done regular aspirin before.

Not quite sure which is the thing that is working, or both! But it definitely seems like the androgen spike did not happen this month...

How do you take the pregnenolone? 200mg twice a day?

I'm very tempted to try this - but a little worried about upsetting my body even more, it's been through enough!

I've just started on cyproheptadine too, must start on the aspirin!

 

[johns74]

I'm almost terrified to try pregnenolone at a 400mg dose!

I think Ray Peat used 3000 mg for a while, nothing bad happened.

 

[haidut]

Good to hear it is working for you. Have you done any blood tests? Higher does of pregnenolone saturate the pathways for conversion into DHEA and the excess gets converted into progesterone. This free study does a great job of explaining the process.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 1349.x/pdf

So, based on the study and personal observations androgenic effects of pregnenolone (if any) would be expected to happen at low doses (<10mg per dose) and higher doses would convert almost completely into progesterone, allopregnanolone, pregnanolone, etc.

This is so intriguing! Would I be correct in assuming that if my thyroid function still isn't up to scratch, my body then resorts to cortisol?

When I've taken large doses of pregnenolone before (100mg) - I fell asleep easily enough but always woke up around 2/3am and couldn't fall asleep again until 5/6am - which I understand is a symptom of excess cortisol?

I'm almost terrified to try pregnenolone at a 400mg dose!

I think in hypothyroidism the glycogen stores are low and first adrenalin rises and then cortisol. The high adrenalin is what causes the nigh terrors and inability to sleep. Cortisol, though high at night is actually highest in early morning around 8am. The anti-adrenalin drug clonidine also lowers cortisol and is a great sleep aid as well as general protector through the night. Cyproheptadine does the same.
You can try a 400mg dose once, and add magnesium/zinc to it. This should improve sleep a lot and control cortisol.

 

[nattyjules]

I think in hypothyroidism the glycogen stores are low and first adrenalin rises and then cortisol. The high adrenalin is what causes the nigh terrors and inability to sleep. Cortisol, though high at night is actually highest in early morning around 8am. The anti-adrenalin drug clonidine also lowers cortisol and is a great sleep aid as well as general protector through the night. Cyproheptadine does the same.
You can try a 400mg dose once, and add magnesium/zinc to it. This should improve sleep a lot and control cortisol.

Thank you haidut - this is so helpful! If it wasn't for this site and all the lovely contributors, I'd still be thinking I had PCOS and adrenal fatigue

I'll try this combination and report back!

 

[ilovethesea]

Good to hear it is working for you. Have you done any blood tests? Higher does of pregnenolone saturate the pathways for conversion into DHEA and the excess gets converted into progesterone. This free study does a great job of explaining the process.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 1349.x/pdf

So, based on the study and personal observations androgenic effects of pregnenolone (if any) would be expected to happen at low doses (<10mg per dose) and higher doses would convert almost completely into progesterone, allopregnanolone, pregnanolone, etc.

I didn't do any blood tests yet, but seeing my doctor in 2 weeks. What blood tests should I be asking for? She's going to make me do a thyroid panel no matter what, so what's another vial of blood?

I would say the results have been extremely similar to spironolactone which I took briefly in the past. No acne at all and reduced oil production. Even though, I am taking less T3 than ever. (I do still have some symptoms of low thyroid like cold feet.)

 

[ilovethesea]

How do you take the pregnenolone? 200mg twice a day?

I'm very tempted to try this - but a little worried about upsetting my body even more, it's been through enough!

I've just started on cyproheptadine too, must start on the aspirin!

Yes I have the Life Extension 100mg pills. I take 2 around dinner and then 2 before bed. I also take 1-2mg of cypro before bed, and about 1.5g of aspirin powder (so 4-5 aspirin). (Not sure how much of a difference the aspirin makes - I heard some people say high doses helped their acne as well, and aspirin is anti-estrogen.) Oh and I am on thyroid meds as well.

It really does seem like the pregnenolone is doing something special to blunt the androgen spike - an effect I didn't get before until I took relatively high doses of T3. So, seems like a great solution now that I can't get much T3 anymore.

 

[johns74]

Good to hear it is working for you. Have you done any blood tests?

If you never had them, I think it's good to test ferritin and transferrin saturaiton.

 

[ilovethesea]

I think in hypothyroidism the glycogen stores are low and first adrenalin rises and then cortisol. The high adrenalin is what causes the nigh terrors and inability to sleep. Cortisol, though high at night is actually highest in early morning around 8am. The anti-adrenalin drug clonidine also lowers cortisol and is a great sleep aid as well as general protector through the night. Cyproheptadine does the same.
You can try a 400mg dose once, and add magnesium/zinc to it. This should improve sleep a lot and control cortisol.

I used to get terrible stress/adrenaline/cortisol responses when I was first starting. Racing heart, shortness of breath, sweating. I think it's common to seriously undereat - a big problem when you rev up metabolism with thyroid and other measures. I basically spent a year learning to get enough calories (~2000-2500) and sugar. I also spent a year taking cyproheptadine. Both really helped. Now I never get those symptoms.

 

[ilovethesea]

If you never had them, I think it's good to test ferritin and transferrin saturaiton.

Thanks! I will ask. I know I had ferritin tested a few years ago and it was low, so my ND put me on iron pills.

 

[johns74]

Thanks! I will ask. I know I had ferritin tested a few years ago and it was low, so my ND put me on iron pills.

If you already had it, it might be unnecessary. Mittir has many comments about how to read iron tests and how ferritin should be combined with saturation to read it well.

One other important thing to know is vitamin D. Again, you might have tested it already and it wouldn't be necessary then.

 

[nattyjules]

Update:

Tried taking 400mg of pregnenolone (Life Extension) twice per day (around 11am and then 10pm), but by day 4 I had a large acne spot pop up next to my mouth. The following day I had another one on my neck - so stopped taking the pregnenolone for now.

I'd increased my magnesium and cyproheptadine intake (the latter I've now upped to 2mg twice a day) to see if it negated the androgenic effect, but sadly not!

Back to the drawing board for now...

 

[kineticz]

Excess oral pregnenolone can cause issues with ACTH suppression. It also has benzo effects in the liver which can blunt neurotransmitters in the brain.

This can raise prolactin and DHEA causing hyperandrogenism during hypothyrodism.

Pregnenolone, unlike Ray's advice, is not just 'lapped up' by the body always. He is correct that the adrenals overcompensate when progesterone is low, but adding more pregnenolone is not recommended.

With Ray's advice you have to remember that his theories are tightly knit. He put the pieces together but you have to read between the lines in your own life and self-awareness.

It is the master hormone and a large spike under circumstances such as mitochondrial fatigue and low active T3 will cause adverse feedback consequences.

Pregnenolone only enhances P450 when it gains entry to mitochondria. Otherwise from my experience is can create a bottleneck of hormone clearance.

Oral pregnenolone at high doses increases my prolactin and can take weeks to recover from. Others on the forum have felt this using oral adrenal hormones.

Discontinue oral pregnenolone or buy a tub of 15mg life-flo transdermal preg. You need to work on your thyroid and mitochondria for the next six months, in order to improve progesterone pathway.

Progesterone attenuates ACTH and therefore pregnenolone transfer into cells to exert P450.

 

[nattyjules]

Thank you kinectiz! This explains the symptoms I've been getting, no matter the dose.

I've just bought the transdermal pregnenolone now, but will also start taking aspirin as well as micro dosing T3 throughout the day, with 1 tablet of Cynoplus in the AM.