TocoVit - Liquid Vitamin E From Wheat Germ Oil

[haidut]

@Amazoniac, @haidut,
Selenium and manganese are water soluble minerals, don't you guys think that it's very unlikely to find significant, if any, amount of those minerals in the product?
Eating wheat germ in its crude form or making a water extract of it should be another story.

True, maybe the CO2 supercritical extraction removes them. I will ask anyways.

 

[Wilfrid]

True, maybe the CO2 supercritical extraction removes them. I will ask anyways.

Ok, thanks.
BTW I really like the new version of Tocovit, you have made a wonderful product, congrats.

 

[haidut]

Ok, thanks.
BTW I really like the new version of Tocovit, you have made a wonderful product, congrats.

Awesome, thanks! So glad to hear it!

 

[paymanz]

Wheat of the germs has plenty of selenium and manganese. Do you think this is relevant for those that are supplementing wheat germ oil?

Trace Elements in Human et Animal Nutrition (vol. 2) - Walter Mertz
"Two major steps forward have been made in our understanding of the mode of action of selenium and its relationship to vitamin Ε since liver necrosis in rats and ED [exudative diathesis] in chicks were first shown to be prevented by small amounts of selenite[.] The first of these was the demonstration of an essential requirement for dietary selenium by chicks and rats, in the presence of adequate vitamin E. The second major advance was the discovery that GSH-Px is a selenium-containing enzyme with an activity in the blood and tissues of rats and chicks directly related to the selenium level in the diet. These important findings gave a great impetus to the antioxidant role for selenium compounds fostered by Tappel (415) but open to some doubt through the researches of Green and Diplock and their group and others (135)."

--
This thought appeared during a conversation with one of our coaches on the subject of vitamin A:


It wasn't long ago that I realized there's an arrow next to the last page of long threads that actually has a function!

I dont think so.
Are those minerals soluble in oil?

And wheat germ has lots of phytates and that blocks manganese absorption.

 

[Amazoniac]

I dont think so.
Are those minerals soluble in oil?

And wheat germ has lots of phytates and that blocks manganese absorption.

It's not that, because they're not meant to be eaten, it's more like.. why are they appearing together?

I forgot to comment about the reason for including the vitamin A quote. Raymond mentioned somevvhere that these vitamins have to lock together. If you don't have adequate vitamin A and add a disproportionate amount of E, it can behave oddly.
Max of the Gersons gave juiced carrots to patients and flushed bile with coffee enemas, there was a lot of carotenes being absorbed. Making it work right can be a task. When the metabolism is weak, the body has difficulty handling nutrients, it appears that they just pass through. Vitamin A depends on a lot of factors to work properly. For a slowered person, it can be beneficial to add nutrients in conjunction, otherwise by the time you try to lock all those factors, they're probably already lost or used for another purpose (after all, the body is likely desperate for them).

Carotenes in greater amounts can be detrimental but they can also be an useful tool to grasp the proper dosing of cofactors in a safer way. And like it was mentioned, the changes are visible: it's easier to know when you're bearing the excess, when things are moving on the right direction, how other nutrients are affecting, etc, all that with a greater range of control for the body.

 

[Wagner83]

I forgot to comment about the reason for including the vitamin A quote. Raymond mentioned somevvhere that these vitamins have to lock together.

I wonder if this is a reason why estroban works well.

 

[Dhair]

@haidut Is there any reason why this could make a person nauseous and put them in a not very good mood? I typically just leave it in my mouth and don't swallow it, so I don't think it's a serotonin issue, but I could be wrong.

 

[energyandstruct]

For anyone who has tried this, what's a good starting dose, and how long should one wait before redosing?

 

[energyandstruct]

i'm just gonna go with the 20 drops, or maybe start with 10

 

[haidut]

@haidut Is there any reason why this could make a person nauseous and put them in a not very good mood? I typically just leave it in my mouth and don't swallow it, so I don't think it's a serotonin issue, but I could be wrong.

The policosanols may irritate the gut in some people, and produce similar effects to MCT - nausea and discomfort. It seems to pass after a few days. Also, some people reported even pure vitamin E giving them such symptoms and some have tied it to immune activation. I think @Wilfrid had poor experience with vitamin E due to his GI issues.

 

[energyandstruct]

besides antagonizing K2, is there any reason not to take this daily, at the RDA? i know ray had calcium issues from wheat germ oil but iirc that was high dose for awhile, plus it was wheat germ oil

 

[energyandstruct]

I think 800 IU vitamin E is around the upper limit of what the organism can utilize daily. At that dose it may cause issues with increased bleeding especially when combined with progesterone, so maybe adding some vitamin K a few hours before/after the vitamin E would help balance that.

besides the increased bleeding would there be any other harmful effects from taking it daily for short periods? the reason I ask is I don't have a perfectly pufa free diet and i've found tocovit very helpful so far... seems protective. I take k

 

[haidut]

besides the increased bleeding would there be any other harmful effects from taking it daily for short periods? the reason I ask is I don't have a perfectly pufa free diet and i've found tocovit very helpful so far... seems protective. I take k

For PUFA protection even much lower doses are sufficient. But using 800 IU daily for a few weeks did not seem to cause any issues in the human studies that looked at it.

 

[Amazoniac]

Wheat of the germs has plenty of selenium and manganese. Do you think this is relevant for those that are supplementing wheat germ oil?

Trace Elements in Human et Animal Nutrition (vol. 2) - Walter Mertz
"Two major steps forward have been made in our understanding of the mode of action of selenium and its relationship to vitamin Ε since liver necrosis in rats and ED [exudative diathesis] in chicks were first shown to be prevented by small amounts of selenite[.] The first of these was the demonstration of an essential requirement for dietary selenium by chicks and rats, in the presence of adequate vitamin E. The second major advance was the discovery that GSH-Px is a selenium-containing enzyme with an activity in the blood and tissues of rats and chicks directly related to the selenium level in the diet. These important findings gave a great impetus to the antioxidant role for selenium compounds fostered by Tappel (415) but open to some doubt through the researches of Green and Diplock and their group and others (135)."

It's also a good source of molybdenum. It isn't difficult to not get enough in a diet without seeds (legumes, grains, nuts), shellfish or organ meats.

 

[Bart1]

@haidut. I ordered some tocovit. Should I use it topically on my forearm or is oral the way to go ? What is the recommended (daily?) dosage, I have a lot of problems with estrogen dominance. Should I take this together with D and K2 or should I leave some time in between ? thanks!

 

[haidut]

@haidut. I ordered some tocovit. Should I use it topically on my forearm or is oral the way to go ? What is the recommended (daily?) dosage, I have a lot of problems with estrogen dominance. Should I take this together with D and K2 or should I leave some time in between ? thanks!

Topically at 10-20 drops a day should be good enough. I can be used at the same time as vitamin D but should be used a few hours away from vitamin K.

 

[Waynish]

Topically at 10-20 drops a day should be good enough. I can be used at the same time as vitamin D but should be used a few hours away from vitamin K.

Why wouldn't this advice translate to food too? For example, we eat a bunch of cheese in a PUFA dinner and then take vitamin E?

 

[Amazoniac]

Guru, I was reading the comments on the Magnoil thread, I still owe you a 'pimp my ear'-type of video, with morphing transitions, spinning earrings and all.

 

[haidut]

Why wouldn't this advice translate to food too? For example, we eat a bunch of cheese in a PUFA dinner and then take vitamin E?

You mean use food to substitute for vitamin E? Please clarify.

 

[jaakkima]

This new formulation is amazing. It isn't irritating my gut at all, while all other E's have (though I hadn't yet tried dry E), including the older Tocovit... making me feel not right and probably causing more trouble than they solved. I think this might be the missing link/magic bullet for me. It is making me feel joyous, energetic, social, and almost normal (first E I've tried that affected me this way), so I want to try using it in trying to get off blood thinners. I hope the product will stay in this form for the foreseeable future.