TocoVit - Liquid Vitamin E From Wheat Germ Oil

Amazoniac

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Zeus, believe it or not, this is my favorite product of your entire store. The boat is sinking and I have to let go of all but one, this would be it. I'm not aware of any other reliable product that leaves out the undesirable parts.
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Dave Clark

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Maybe this was in another post, but can you comment Haidut whether the policosanol (since you mentioned that it was a good thing) would be good to use as a supplement to complement the vitamin e supplements that are out there? I know years ago policosanol was being marketed heavily for cholesterol reduction, but since haven't heard much news/science about it.
 

Obi-wan

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.
 

Lucenzo01

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Zeus, believe it or not, this is my favorite product of your entire store. The boat is sinking and I have to let go of all but one, this would be it. I'm not aware of any other reliable product that leaves out the undesirable parts.

What benefits do you get from this product? I think you use it topically, right?
 

Amazoniac

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What benefits do you get from this product? I think you use it topically, right?
A small ear. No, I used to, but it was too troubling and I had a slightly traumatizing experience.

Speaking of that, it's strange: he mentioned elsewhere that estrogen makes facial features disproportional. I was puzzled at the time and only then I realized that what he had in mind is the typical distortion that occurs with aging. If the size of my ears are really altered due to estrogen, I believe it has some protective effect since I notice that everytime it decreases in size (in theory things improving), I feel worse. Wished this was a joke but it's not. The effects are so strong that I have to be careful with it and I suspect it's inducing some unidentified deficiency.

I'm curious about the effects from the modified product because it's also possible that the negative effect that comes along is related to the undesirable parts that were removed. Who knows..
 
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Lucenzo01

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A small ear. No, I used to, but it was too troubling and I had a slightly traumatizing experience.

Speaking of that, it's strange: he mentioned elsewhere that estrogen makes facial features disproportional. I was puzzled at the time and only then I realized that what he had in mind is the typical distortion that occurs with aging. If the size of my ears are really altered due to estrogen, I believe it has some protective effect since I notice that everytime it decreases in size (in theory things improving), I feel worse. Wish this was a joke but it's not. The effects are so strong that I have to be careful with it and I suspect it's inducing some unidentified deficiency.

I'm curious about the effects from the modified product because it's also possible that the negative effect that comes along is related to the undesirable parts that were removed. Who knows..

Maybe you got a K2 or C deficiency? But you have think already about it for sure. Sometimes is hard to get everything together.
 

Amazoniac

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Maybe you got a K2 or C deficiency? But you have think already about it for sure. Sometimes is hard to get everything together.
Those are good guesses. I was indeed trying to humiliate my brain on what happened for a long time. K2 was being supplemented at the time as MK-7 and I wasn't eating as much greens as before when a bad episode occurred. But there were 21040 other variables.

Since MK-7 tends to be taken up by liver and bones, other tissues can become compromised if you don't eat plenty of greens: it's almost a requirement to eat enough of them if you want to supplement MK-7 or MK-4 in amounts found in foods. MK-4 has a more even distribution but if used topically it has to be on higher doses such as those found in servings of Zeus' Estroban or Kuinone, otherwise I believe it's possible for extreme tissues to take up and not leave much for liver or other organs.

100mcg of MK-4 can't equate to MK-7 if they have different tails, unless the core ring is responsible for most of the weight. I'm mentioning this because we should need higher doses if no K1 is present at all. Even higher doses of MK-7 that would probably be unmanageable.

All in all, I just want to let you know that I respect K1 even if its name wasn't derived from plants' chlorophyll..oquinone.
 

Lucenzo01

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Those are good guesses. I was indeed trying to humiliate my brain on what happened for a long time. K2 was being supplemented at the time as MK-7 and I wasn't eating as much greens as before when a bad episode occurred. But there were 21040 other variables.

Since MK-7 tends to be taken up by liver and bones, other tissues can become compromised if you don't eat plenty of greens: it's almost a requirement to eat enough of them if you want to supplement MK-7 or MK-4 in amounts found in foods. MK-4 has a more even distribution but if used topically it has to be on higher doses such as those found in servings of Zeus' Estroban or Kuinone, otherwise I believe it's possible for extreme tissues to take up and not leave much for liver or other organs.

100mcg of MK-4 can't equate to MK-7 if they have different tails, unless the core ring is responsible for most of the weight. I'm mentioning this because we should need higher doses if no K1 is present at all. Even higher doses of MK-7 that would probably be unmanageable.

All in all, I just want to let you know that I respect K1 even if its name wasn't derived from plants' chlorophyll..oquinone.

My humble advice would be to not touch mk7. I don't know how that poison is even legal. I have seen friends jumping on it because "muh fermentation" and "muh natural k2 not like mk4" just to get blood work done and having some really scaring parameters along with arrhythmias. There are some really worrying reviews in the Amazon's best selling Vitamin D book about mk7.
 

Travis

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My humble advice would be to not touch mk7. I don't know how that poison is even legal. I have seen friends jumping on it because "muh fermentation" and "muh natural k2 not like mk4" just to get blood work done and having some really scaring parameters along with arrhythmias. There are some really worrying reviews in the Amazon's best selling Vitamin D book about mk7.
It seems as though the Weston A. Price foundation will concentration on anything not found in plants to focus on, but herbivores do make all vitamin K analogues from phylloquinone at an enzyme controlled rate. What is unique about the short prenylated forms is that they are similar enough to coenzyme Q₁₀ to serve as their proxy, acting on the cardiac muscles in essentially the same way. So vitamin K really does have a function besides its classical role in the formation of the calcium-chelating γ-carboxyglutamate domain, and that is to serve as shuttling electrons in and around the mitochondria.
 
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haidut

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Did you send one bottle to our CEO? I remember he disliked the taste of the old one so it would be interesting to know how he rates this one.
Is the colour still dark amber?

I am about to send it, together with some thyroid powder we use for TyroMax. The color is lighter than before.
 
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haidut

haidut

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Zeus, believe it or not, this is my favorite product of your entire store. The boat is sinking and I have to let go of all but one, this would be it. I'm not aware of any other reliable product that leaves out the undesirable parts.

Lol, is this me holding TocoVit? :):
 
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haidut

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Maybe this was in another post, but can you comment Haidut whether the policosanol (since you mentioned that it was a good thing) would be good to use as a supplement to complement the vitamin e supplements that are out there? I know years ago policosanol was being marketed heavily for cholesterol reduction, but since haven't heard much news/science about it.

I think it would be beneficial to add policosanol on top of vitamin E, assuming the policosanol product is good. The studies on it for cholesterol reduction are pretty solid and this is why it is actually a prescription drug for that purpose in Canada, Europe and Latin America. US pharma will not let some humble wax dethrone its statins :):
 

razor

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Hi, this is my first post, although I’ve been lurking here for a few months and just enjoying the discussions from the sidelines.

However, I’ve had a couple strange reactions to Tocovit that I want to share, perhaps to understand what happened, but also to warn others who might be susceptible to the same issues.

I’ve only used Tocovit topically. I’ve used other supplements with vitamin E (like Mitolipin) both topically and orally - usually at the full dosage after a couple weeks of ramping up the dosage slowly.

For some reason, when I first tried Tocovit, I went all out and had 400 IU topically on my stomach. Later that morning I noticed I was very sensitized to coffee (feeling nauseous after only a small amount). This lasted most of the day, and I figured it must have been because I over-revved my metabolism and caused the stress hormones to kick-in. I resolved to only use a drop or two every now and then.

Fast forward a few months to a couple days ago. I hadn’t used Tocovit since the last incident, because I was getting a lot of vitamin E from Estroban and Mitolipin (only taking one of them every day or two). I’d also forgotten my rule about only using a drop or two of Tocovit, but that sort of makes sense since I wasn’t having any issues with other vitamin E containing products.

So, I took the full dose before bed (partly because I went out to eat and likely had some PUFA), and in the morning I experienced BPPV vertigo for the first time in my life (crystals from the utricle of your inner ear end up in the semicircular canals where they should not be, and they initiate vertigo by bumping against the cilia in that part of the ear). Certainly, it could be a coincidence, but it seems like really strange timing.

Do you think Tocovit could somehow affect the inner ear via lower blood pressure or some other mechanism? It’s interesting to note that these otolith ear crystals are made of Calcium Carbonate and protein, so perhaps the E could be interfering with their formation or attachment inside the utricle by messing with K function temporarily?

Thankfully, BPPV was not too severe for me (lasting under 5 seconds at a time), and I seem to have been able to resolve it with the Epley Technique on the first try. However, I still don’t feel 100% after a couple days - some lingering nausea (perhaps from the dose of E, or perhaps the crystals cause a slight lingering issue when they mow down the inner ear cilia).

I’m glad that most people seem to have good luck with this supplement, but it is apparently really intense for my system. I’d advise starting with a couple drops and working your way up (good advice for any supplement I suppose), even if you are a seasoned vitamin E user.
 
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haidut

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Do you think Tocovit could somehow affect the inner ear via lower blood pressure or some other mechanism

The much more likely explanation is probably gut irritation, which vitamin E is known to cause and which can easily cause dizziness/virtigo. If it is giving you these symptoms I would use a lot less or not at all. No other reports like that but even a vitamin is likely to not sit well with every person who tries it.
 

razor

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Thanks haidut - I was using it topically (sorry I didn't make that clear when I said I recently used the full dose). Would it still have potential for gut irritation in that case? I did rub it on my gut I guess, haha. I agree on the second part, and I'll make sure to only use one or two drops from now on when I do use it.
 
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haidut

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Thanks haidut - I was using it topically (sorry I didn't make that clear when I said I recently used the full dose). Would it still have potential for gut irritation in that case? I did rub it on my gut I guess, haha. I agree on the second part, and I'll make sure to only use one or two drops from now on when I do use it.

Oh yes, absolutely. I think a few users here with gut issues like @Wilfrid and @Amazoniac experienced this first hand, using vitamin E only topically.
 

Amazoniac

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Zeus, If you're aware of my problem with dairy, why didn't you cast a spell to solve it? I thought you were looking after all humans equally, regardless of skin color.

On the episodes that I had problems with your product, I could feel my brain becoming heavier (not in a good way like Such or Travis's heavy brain). I was having at the same time problems with dairy proteid and it's possible that I wasn't getting enough protein in general because of that. Ray already mentioned that one of the reasons for deranged calcium (and perhaps these vitamins) metabolism is lack of sufficient protein.

Other than that, I can be the waxy part of your product that might be more difficult to be metabolized and maybe tiny amounts were enough to congest the brain.

I suspect this is involved in various cases of negative reactions to vit of E:
Balancing Vitamins A And E
Partners In Defense, Vitamins E And C (lock together part)
Every time that I had problems with it, I was using it more or less disproportionally to all other fat and soluble vitamins. It is quite possible that I was doing stupid things.

I just want to let you know that I'm not intimidated by the weapons that you carry mostly because we're online, but I still think it's unnecessary for a forum discussion.
 
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haidut

haidut

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Zeus, If you're aware of my problem with dairy, why didn't you cast a spell to solve it? I thought you were looking after all humans equally, regardless of skin color.

On the episodes that I had problems with your product, I could feel my brain becoming heavier (not in a good way like Such or Travis's heavy brain). I was having at the same time problems with dairy proteid and it's possible that I wasn't getting enough protein in general because of that. Ray already mentioned that one of the reasons for deranged calcium (and perhaps these vitamins) metabolism is lack of sufficient protein.

Other than that, I can be the waxy part of your product that might be more difficult to be metabolized and maybe tiny amounts were enough to congest the brain.

I suspect this is involved in various cases of negative reactions to vit of E:
Balancing Vitamins A And E
Partners In Defense, Vitamins E And C (lock together part)
Every time that I had problems with it, I was using it more or less disproportionally to all other fat and soluble vitamins. It is quite possible that I was doing stupid things.

I just want to let you know that I'm not intimidated by the weapons that you carry mostly because we're online, but I still think it's unnecessary for a forum discussion.

Did not know you had issues with dairy. Is it all dairy or only milk?
And thanks for the explanation and the links. Maybe the high doses vitamin E are really meant for estrogen control more than anything else.
 

Amazoniac

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It comes and goes, I don't know exactly. It was whey, but then it stopped and casein took the lead. Right now it's casein. How can I say 'fix it' without sounding detogarory? Unfortunately Travisord already associates myself with his caricatured Italian traits, so I'm trying to distantiate from being rude.

But anyway, I think once the person is relatively depleted of PUFA, more care needs to be taken with vitamin E because it's easier to saturate yourself and exceed. The great and safe margin for intake is when the person consumes plenty or has a lot of it stored. Its functions go beyond dietary et stored PUFA, but it's my impression that not much is needed for other functions, such as protecting the unsaturated vitamin A (consider the composition of natural foods), etc. Once you have in excess, it might create such problems of imbalances and perhaps prevent some nutrients in the body from being metabolized the way they should.
 

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