To What Degree Does Self Control Exist, If At All? The Illusion Of Free Will

[ATP]

I've been trying to think of a way to articulate my thoughts on this subject in a somewhat direct way, without getting into a debate about the theory of free will. I am wanting advice in more practical terms.

I have a serious problem with self control. My intention never matches up with my behavior. I feel as though I'm a passenger in a car and it's driving itself. I don't do anything manic but it is the small the things that are out my control and days are made up a collection of small decisions. It is the general idea of self control that I want to discuss and what can be done to change it, if possible.

I don't know if this problem is isolated to me, or everyone has this issue and it is the chronic observation of not liking my behavior that has awoken me to realization that I can't control myself.

I have tried all sorts of medications, supplements, hormones, etc. Along with every form of mindfulness technique in existence with no change.

Personally, I have never known anyone to completely change their behavior and though process.

I feel as though I am at breaking point and I'm hoping there is some information someone knows that can help.

 

[Pointless]

Hmmm this is a tough issue, but I think the way to go is by integrating yourself. Instead of thinking of your impulses as things to be controlled think of them, and similar impulses in other people, as facts of Life, human nature, as natural drives toward the good that are at worst misguided. The philosophy of Nietzsche and Lao Tzu were helpful for me, but I think you're right that the issue is not about a rational concept of free will.

 

[Diokine]

I'm hoping there is some information someone knows that can help.

What is information? Is it knowledge? Platonic form, the shape something makes. Your thoughts make shapes. So information is that which encourages a particular shape, in this context the shape of thought.

Information is dangerous, though, in the sense that the shape such formed is imposed. If you read some piece of information, and believe it, it now has agency over your life. Agency is the lack of genesis, a state of stasis of skepsis and towards helplessness. It indicates power a primo over your thought process.

So it's very important to carefully decide what information to believe. You feel like you don't have control over your life because I think in earnest you don't, some information has crept in and turned you into routine.

That's why it's peril to intellectualize life. Reason and logic have their place, but feeling and purpose can't be manufactured. Constantly trying to create meaning cuts one off from the root of feeling and exposes one to meaningless suffering. Suffering is inevitable, but meaning frames it properly.

Feeling is the present non-voluntary state of a person made conscious; purpose is the voluntary and conscious state that is possible to creatively develop from feeling.

Finding feeling and purpose

 

[ATP]

Hmmm this is a tough issue, but I think the way to go is by integrating yourself. Instead of thinking of your impulses as things to be controlled think of them, and similar impulses in other people, as facts of Life, human nature, as natural drives toward the good that are at worst misguided. The philosophy of Nietzsche and Lao Tzu were helpful for me, but I think you're right that the issue is not about a rational concept of free will.

It is on both sides of the spectrum, the impulsivity and inability to act.

 

[ATP]

What is information? Is it knowledge? Platonic form, the shape something makes. Your thoughts make shapes. So information is that which encourages a particular shape, in this context the shape of thought.

Information is dangerous, though, in the sense that the shape such formed is imposed. If you read some piece of information, and believe it, it now has agency over your life. Agency is the lack of genesis, a state of stasis of skepsis and towards helplessness. It indicates power a primo over your thought process.

So it's very important to carefully decide what information to believe. You feel like you don't have control over your life because I think in earnest you don't, some information has crept in and turned you into routine.

That's why it's peril to intellectualize life. Reason and logic have their place, but feeling and purpose can't be manufactured. Constantly trying to create meaning cuts one off from the root of feeling and exposes one to meaningless suffering. Suffering is inevitable, but meaning frames it properly.




Finding feeling and purpose

You’re completely right, I don’t want to intellectualize this. I want to get out of my head. Information on how to fix this issue. If it can’t be helped, then that’s that.

 

[Herbie]

I used to act on impulse, I do not do this now, got me into a lot of trouble. I am calm and calculated, particularly in dangerous/tense situations. I feel grounded/powerful not outwardly but inwardly/solid/solid walls around me and can see through people and things and people don't have the influence on me to pull me from one direction to another, same with emotions.

I didn't do any of the meditation/mindfulness/ eastern philosophy etc. I happened without intent or effort.

I feel its got something to do with cyproheptadine and tobacco use.

 

[ATP]

I used to act on impulse, I do not do this now, got me into a lot of trouble. I am calm and calculated, particularly in dangerous/tense situations. I feel grounded/powerful not outwardly but inwardly/solid/solid walls around me and can see through people and things and people don't have the influence on me to pull me from one direction to another, same with emotions.

I didn't do any of the meditation/mindfulness/ eastern philosophy etc. I happened without intent or effort.

I feel its got something to do with cyproheptadine and tobacco use.

Sounds like a beautiful dream!

Do you think it is the combination of cypro and tobacco? Are you just smoking cigarettes?

I was taking cypro on it’s own but I started to gain weight and I couldn’t get over the sedative effect, it was too much for me even at a low dose.

 

[Herbie]

Sounds like a beautiful dream!

Do you think it is the combination of cypro and tobacco? Are you just smoking cigarettes?

I was taking cypro on it’s own but I started to gain weight and I couldn’t get over the sedative effect, it was too much for me even at a low dose.

Its contagious.

When I started taking cypro a few years ago, I started smoking cigarettes for the first time at age 28 and I changed/matured in that time, as well as doing things inline with Peats ideas I eat beef twice a day too, it could be contributing to being more down to Earth. I only smoke in the winter so I stopped two weeks ago and chew nicotine gum now.

Yeah the tobacco would quickly bring me out of the sedation of cypro in the morning,I don't know how I managed taking cypro for extended periods, I have to drag myself out of bed for work at 4-5am but can suck down a cigarette on an empty stomach fine followed by a coke early in the morning. I never got used to the sedation, cypro has always been sedative for me.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

I've been trying to think of a way to articulate my thoughts on this subject in a somewhat direct way, without getting into a debate about the theory of free will. I am wanting advice in more practical terms.

I have a serious problem with self control. My intention never matches up with my behavior. I feel as though I'm a passenger in a car and it's driving itself. I don't do anything manic but it is the small the things that are out my control and days are made up a collection of small decisions. It is the general idea of self control that I want to discuss and what can be done to change it, if possible.

I don't know if this problem is isolated to me, or everyone has this issue and it is the chronic observation of not liking my behavior that has awoken me to realization that I can't control myself.

I have tried all sorts of medications, supplements, hormones, etc. Along with every form of mindfulness technique in existence with no change.

Personally, I have never known anyone to completely change their behavior and though process.

I feel as though I am at breaking point and I'm hoping there is some information someone knows that can help.

One person I respect is Jack pransky. Now the man has a panic attack when he for swimming. He still goes swimming.

The enlightened man is not outside the law of cause and effect. He is one with it. You are not just you, your body is the culmination of billions of years of evolution and your culture has given you thousands of rules you do not even know. History alone has more power over you than your conscious, because you are the product of nature and history.

It is said that every person is the protagonist of his own story, and the spearcarrier of other's stories.

You have power, far more than you think in the game you were born to, but mostly you are along for the ride. Your heart beats, and you mind makes thoughts and it is all done for you.

To get back control you have to give it up. In practice your subconscious processes billions of bits of information every second . You will never defeat it, and attempts to micromanage what you will say are likely to fail.

What you can do is draw from that reservoir of wisdom. If you but relax, and let the deeper mind take the reigns, you can just trust that the best words and action you are capable of will be expressed.

 

[Tarmander]

The enlightened man is not outside the law of cause and effect. He is one with it.

This is a good one.

I've been trying to think of a way to articulate my thoughts on this subject in a somewhat direct way, without getting into a debate about the theory of free will. I am wanting advice in more practical terms.

I have a serious problem with self control. My intention never matches up with my behavior. I feel as though I'm a passenger in a car and it's driving itself. I don't do anything manic but it is the small the things that are out my control and days are made up a collection of small decisions. It is the general idea of self control that I want to discuss and what can be done to change it, if possible.

I don't know if this problem is isolated to me, or everyone has this issue and it is the chronic observation of not liking my behavior that has awoken me to realization that I can't control myself.

I have tried all sorts of medications, supplements, hormones, etc. Along with every form of mindfulness technique in existence with no change.

Personally, I have never known anyone to completely change their behavior and though process.

I feel as though I am at breaking point and I'm hoping there is some information someone knows that can help.

Self knowledge is the understanding of the limits of will power. Direct willpower is not very strong in most people, like you are finding in yourself. Your choice comes in molding your environment so you make the right decisions. It is a subtle reworking of the chain of cause and effect.

Using smoking as an example, if your goal is to stop wanting cigarettes, you will most likely fail miserably. To succeed at that, you would need to break down your ability to desire, lower your metabolism, passion for life, and dim your perception of the world. Eventually you might come to the place where you would not want cigarettes, but you would die inside to get there.

But if your goal was to quit smoking, then you could tell your friends who smoke you are not going to hang out with them anymore, remove all cigarettes from your house and make it impossible for you to get one. You would ask your non-smoking friends to help you out by not letting you fall off the wagon, and maybe make some friends who quit smoking in the past. So if you focus on a pragmatic change, and not a change in your inner desires, you can accomplish things with will power.

 

[Herbie]

This is a good one.

Self knowledge is the understanding of the limits of will power. Direct willpower is not very strong in most people, like you are finding in yourself. Your choice comes in molding your environment so you make the right decisions. It is a subtle reworking of the chain of cause and effect.

Using smoking as an example, if your goal is to stop wanting cigarettes, you will most likely fail miserably. To succeed at that, you would need to break down your ability to desire, lower your metabolism, passion for life, and dim your perception of the world. Eventually you might come to the place where you would not want cigarettes, but you would die inside to get there.

But if your goal was to quit smoking, then you could tell your friends who smoke you are not going to hang out with them anymore, remove all cigarettes from your house and make it impossible for you to get one. You would ask your non-smoking friends to help you out by not letting you fall off the wagon, and maybe make some friends who quit smoking in the past. So if you focus on a pragmatic change, and not a change in your inner desires, you can accomplish things with will power.

I stop smoking every year and I just decide its time and I stop and thats that. Its not planned out or contemplated it just comes to me that its time to stop.

I think having goals is the first step to failure.

 

[mayweatherking]

what do you want exactly? your post feels vague to me, you say you feel like you are not in control, in what way?

 

[Tarmander]

I stop smoking every year and I just decide its time and I stop and thats that. Its not planned out or contemplated it just comes to me that its time to stop.

I think having goals is the first step to failure.

"I'm great at quitting smoking, I do it all the time!"

 

[Herbie]

"I'm great at quitting smoking, I do it all the time!"

Lol

 

[General Orange]

I've been trying to think of a way to articulate my thoughts on this subject in a somewhat direct way, without getting into a debate about the theory of free will. I am wanting advice in more practical terms.

I have a serious problem with self control. My intention never matches up with my behavior. I feel as though I'm a passenger in a car and it's driving itself. I don't do anything manic but it is the small the things that are out my control and days are made up a collection of small decisions. It is the general idea of self control that I want to discuss and what can be done to change it, if possible.

I don't know if this problem is isolated to me, or everyone has this issue and it is the chronic observation of not liking my behavior that has awoken me to realization that I can't control myself.

I have tried all sorts of medications, supplements, hormones, etc. Along with every form of mindfulness technique in existence with no change.

Personally, I have never known anyone to completely change their behavior and though process.

I feel as though I am at breaking point and I'm hoping there is some information someone knows that can help.

really tried everything? what about cannabis or dmt or ayuasca?

 

[General Orange]

I think great self-control, comes after great trauma, or mind altering drugs.

How can you not filter your impulsive behavior by intentionally try to have less fun, so the emotional mind can back off and let the logical mind take over?

 

[lampofred]

I think self-control is strongly related to brain energy. A bit of coffee can quickly give you the energy to force yourself to do things you don't like, such as cleaning, busy work, etc.

 

[L_C]

When it comes to a practical guide, I would recommend reading the books of Eckhart Tolle: The power of now and New Earth. They did help me to understand....Information is power and once you begin to understand how things work then you will have more power to change it.

Another good reading I like is the 'second level of learning' of Wes Penre and his more of a practical guide: 'Beyond 2012'. Hope it helps.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I have a serious problem with self control. My intention never matches up with my behavior. I feel as though I'm a passenger in a car and it's driving itself. I don't do anything manic but it is the small the things that are out my control and days are made up a collection of small decisions. It is the general idea of self control that I want to discuss and what can be done to change it, if possible.

This is really abstract. Can you narrow this down to one specific example? I realize that there might be many in your life. But for now, just pick one and use it as an example.

 

[Cirion]

Re-digging up a somewhat older thread but I find all this interesting.

I think it boils down to cellular energy. When my cellular energy is low, I tend to gravitate towards self destructive addictive tendencies like excessive video games, staying up too late, porn. When my cellular energy is high I tend to gravitate towards health promoting - research, reading books, taking a walk in the sun, not staying up too late, etc.

In that sense, I would argue that free will is mostly an illusion and we are mostly driven by the level of cellular energy we have. I find I am at the whims of whatever level of cellular energy I currently have. Digging out of low cellular energy is VERY hard and I think it's why many people just get stuck in this for most or even all their lives.