Thyroid Combined With Pregnenolone Cause Heart Palpitations?

[Soren]

I originally posted this as a question to Haidut in the Tyromax thread but I thought I'd start it as a new thread in case anyone had a similar experience.

I've been using NDT for a while, but have recently encountered a few problems and I am not sure if NDT is the cause or if it is the result of a combination of NDT and Pregnenolone

I have found that taking any more than a quarter of a grain of NDT gives me heart palpitations, these are usually triggered by the slightest amount of stress. I am not entirely sure though if its being caused by the NDT by itself or the combination of NDT and pregnenolone. I've been taking Pregnenolone daily for about 4 months and NDT for about 8 months. I slowly worked my way up to 1.5 grains. but I have had to reduce it significantly until the point where I can only take one drop a day to not feel any heart palpitations. Since reducing my NDT I have had some acne on my face and scalp.

I have found some information suggesting that supplementing with both pregnenolone and NDT may lead to heart palpitations because of a temporary situation where ones thyroid hormones are too high in relation to cortisol.

Here is the explanation I found.

" Symptoms of T3-is-in-excess-of-cortisol (same as cortisol-is-too-low-compared-to-T3) are awareness of your heart beat / erratic heart beat - this has a complex explanation: it's due to an initial increase in metabolic rate causing an initial boost in cells absorbing both cortisol and thryoid hormones, followed by running low on thyroid hormones, followed by temporary ACTH suppression due to excess cortisol due to excess preg. Result is temporary excess of thyroid hormones in relation to cortisol. Try decreasing preg to reduce the likelihood of ACTH suppression, or switch from oral to TD preg to slow absorption of preg to prevent the excess cortisol."

Since pregnenolone reduces cortisol and NDT will raise T3. Is it possible that taking NDT and Pregnenolone together is what is causing my symptoms and if so what anyone recommend doing?.

My Questions:
Could the combination of NDT and Pregnenolone lead to the problems I am experiencing?

Could pregnenolone in excess raise cortisol levels, paradoxically after it reduces them? If so, should one stop pregenolone supplementation altogether because your body doesn't need it as indicated by the side effect of heart palpitations.

Or could it be that the NDT is causing the heart palpitations and acne with no relation to pregnenolone

Thanks.

 

[sladerunner69]

Could this perhaps be related to radiation sickness? Should I be concerned about having xrays done along my spine? Is that very cocnerning?

 

[lindsay]

I've never had any issues with pregnenolone that I noticed, other than it made me more calm or else I felt nothing much. That being said, everyone is different. However, taking thyroid can make some people sensitive to adrenaline (especially T3). I used to have this at first when taking Cynoplus or Cytomel. Eating more sugar usually helps with this and finding the proper dose can be a struggle. When I first started taking Cynoplus, I had extreme cravings for OJ, so I listened to those cravings. Something about the extra sugars seemed to help - I would imagine sugar and protein together would be even better. Eventually, I feel like things leveled off for me over time and I rarely get adrenaline rushes from things anymore - I could drink coffee and tea all day long and not really "feel" the caffeine.

 

[Giraffe]

Both thyroid and pregnenolone can help your body make use of magnesium. Peat said in an interview that "your skeletal muscles and bones can take up so much from your blood that your brain and heart and such have trouble getting the magnesium they need to respond to the thyroid." He recommended to take "about 100mg [magnesium] at a time as you take the say 1-2 mcg of cytomel, or cynomel. 100mg will be plenty for the first 2 or 3 hours of responding to 1 or 2 micrograms."

Nitric Oxide, KMUD 2014

 

[Giraffe]

You might also want to check Haidut's post here: Pregnenolone (should) Lower Estrogen Levels

 

[Soren]

Both thyroid and pregnenolone can help your body make use of magnesium. Peat said in an interview that "your skeletal muscles and bones can take up so much from your blood that your brain and heart and such have trouble getting the magnesium they need to respond to the thyroid." He recommended to take "about 100mg [magnesium] at a time as you take the say 1-2 mcg of cytomel, or cynomel. 100mg will be plenty for the first 2 or 3 hours of responding to 1 or 2 micrograms."

Nitric Oxide, KMUD 2014

Thanks Giraffe. I'll add in magnesium and see if it makes a difference. I do supplement with magnesium on occasion with magnesium oil but as I understand it, it takes some time for magnesium to build up in your system.

Do you know of anyway to determine magnesium levels?

 

[Soren]

I've never had any issues with pregnenolone that I noticed, other than it made me more calm or else I felt nothing much. That being said, everyone is different. However, taking thyroid can make some people sensitive to adrenaline (especially T3). I used to have this at first when taking Cynoplus or Cytomel. Eating more sugar usually helps with this and finding the proper dose can be a struggle. When I first started taking Cynoplus, I had extreme cravings for OJ, so I listened to those cravings. Something about the extra sugars seemed to help - I would imagine sugar and protein together would be even better. Eventually, I feel like things leveled off for me over time and I rarely get adrenaline rushes from things anymore - I could drink coffee and tea all day long and not really "feel" the caffeine.

Thanks Lindsay,

I don't think it is an issue with low sugar or protein. I've always had a high protein diet, and I get plenty of sugar. Lots of mexican cola everyday, three or four milk protein shakes a day with three tablespoons of sugar in each one, good amount of sugar in my coffee. Loads of orange juice, I go through probably a carton a day.

So to clarify your saying that adrenaline rushes can cause heart palpitations. That might make sense for me as i only tend to get the palpitations from some external stressor or something that makes me slightly anxious.

 

[lindsay]

Thanks Giraffe. I'll add in magnesium and see if it makes a difference. I do supplement with magnesium on occasion with magnesium oil but as I understand it, it takes some time for magnesium to build up in your system.

A really easy way to get a good amount of magnesium in your system is to switch from regular coffee to good espresso. If you compare the magnesium contents in espresso versus regular drip coffee, it's got a lot more. I noticed that the more espresso I drink, the more relaxed I am - no caffeine triggering adrenaline. In fact, I could drink a cup of espresso and go take a nap - LOL :)

 

[Soren]

A really easy way to get a good amount of magnesium in your system is to switch from regular coffee to good espresso. If you compare the magnesium contents in espresso versus regular drip coffee, it's got a lot more. I noticed that the more espresso I drink, the more relaxed I am - no caffeine triggering adrenaline. In fact, I could drink a cup of espresso and go take a nap - LOL :)

Hmm that is interesting to hear. I did not know that espresso is higher in magnesium. Unfortunately this is somewhat disconcerting because since I drink about 3-5 cups of espresso coffee a day, it makes me think low magnesium is not the issue haha . Unless coffee espresso does not provide sufficient magnesium levels for someone who is supplementing with both NDT and Pregnenolone.

 

[lindsay]

Him that is interesting to hear. I did not know that espresso is higher in magnesium. Unfortunately this is somewhat disconcerting because since I drink about 3-5 cups of espresso coffee a day, it makes me think low magnesium is not the issue haha . Unless coffee espresso does not provide sufficient magnesium levels for someone who is supplementing with both NDT and Pregnenolone.

Is your espresso source a high pressure machine? This makes a difference I think. And wow - I thought I drank a lot of espresso! But I only average about 4 shots per day (so 8 oz.)

 

[Soren]

Is your espresso source a high pressure machine? This makes a difference I think. And wow - I thought I drank a lot of espresso! But I only average about 4 shots per day (so 8 oz.)

Haha, I feel funny if I don't get my coffee fix . It varies but most of the time yes, I either use a nespresso machine that I have at home (which I'm guessing is not a high pressure) but that is only in the very early morning. The rest of the day I'm getting my coffee from a coffee bar that uses a high pressure machine.

 

[tca300]

I would consume more sugar bud. I've suffered from heart palpitations for years and plenty of sugar ( juice, fruit, lactose ) helped me a lot. Both thyroid and pregnenolone raise metabolism and can sometimes burn through sugar quickly. Also NDT can raise stress hormones if the T4 is accumulating and causing RT3 to rise. Ray only takes thyroid during the winter nowadays and he recommends T3 during the day and a supplement like Novotiral in the evening. And how much of each is obviously individual.

 

[Giraffe]

Thanks Giraffe. I'll add in magnesium and see if it makes a difference. I do supplement with magnesium on occasion with magnesium oil but as I understand it, it takes some time for magnesium to build up in your system.

If magnesium is the missing factor (and the only one), I guess you will note whether you are doing better with a little extra magnesium around the time you take thyroid. Watch out for relaxation of tense muscles? Some even experience a high which lasts 2 or 3 hours. :)

Some users here reported that it took quite some time to replenish their magnesium levels. I am not sure this must take long.

It [restoring structure and energy in nerves] needn't take a long time, but all the factors have to be present at the same time.

Multiple sclerosis, protein, fats, and progesterone

If it's just increased sensitivity to adrenaline as Lindsay suggests, the symptoms should go away within (I think) a few days or a week.

 

[Soren]

Ok haven't taken NDT for a few weeks and have had a few Epsom Salt baths since then to try and get my magnesium levels up (probably not enough to make a difference) I tried 1/8th of a grain of NDT the other day and the next day I had some kind of heart palpitation after an intense workout in the gym. I've ordered some magnesium oil and I am going to apply that daily.

I'm guessing that strenuous exercise probably uses up a fair amount of magnesium which is part of the reason why I experienced the heart palpitations after my workout. The annoying thing is my resting pulse rate is down to 65BPM and my rising temps have dropped too. UGH can't wait to get back on NDT.

Anyone have any thoughts as to how much and how long one needs to take magnesium oil to see a rise in their magnesium levels?

 

[Soren]

@Giraffe Just thought I'd give you an update, I've been supplementing Magnesium oil as much as I can for about 2 weeks and I am pretty sure that it has had a beneficial effect. My heart palpitations have virtually disappeared I only get the very slightest one's when I have an adrenaline rush due to some acute stress.

The one thing that concerns me is that the reduction in palpitations might simply be down to the fact that I have been off of NDT for the past few weeks and that the extra T4 in my system has been used up and that is why the palpitations have stopped.

Would love to get your thoughts. Fingers crossed it keeps working and I can start NDT again as my pulse is consistently at 65pbm and I would like to get it back up.

 

[Giraffe]

Thanks for the update @Soren.

It's possible that you pushed yourself too hard with thyromax without getting enough fuel. I know that I need sugar and/or sodium when the tip of my nose gets cold.

Sorry for replying late and so short. I am very stressed at the moment.

 

[Soren]

Thanks for the update @Soren.

It's possible that you pushed yourself too hard with thyromax without getting enough fuel. I know that I need sugar and/or sodium when the tip of my nose gets cold.

Sorry for replying late and so short. I am very stressed at the moment.

I guess its possible. I'm the same way with the tip of my nose. Although I have been really downing lots of carbs and sodium, nearly a carton of milk and orange juice per day, milk protein shakes with salt gelatin and sugar. So i don't think I'm too low on carbs. I think it might be a sensitivity to adrenaline although I don't fully understand why NDT increases one sensitivity to adrenaline and by what process it causes heart palpitations.

 

[Sol Invictus]

I wonder if the pregnenolone is blocking the normal function of cortisol and causing the high heart rate. Doesn't cortisol lower the heart rate? I had this problem with progesterone to the point it would give me cold hands. Maybe the increased adrenaline was a signal to increases cortisol that was being blocked by progesterone?

Strange how progesterone gives me cold hands and feet. Pregnenolone can sometimes only slightly do this, while DHEA and thyroid don't.

 

[Soren]

Haven't posted in this thread in a long time. Just thought I'd post an update and ask for some advice.

I haven't used any NDT or Pregnenolone for about 3 and half months. At first this definitely reduced my heart palpitations but I would still find during times of acute stress, or exercise I tended to get palpitations. Following the advice on this forum I believed that it was a magnesium deficiency. I have been supplementing with magnesium oil, magnesium flakes in baths as well as swimming in the sea for the past couple of months and I feel this has definitely improved things.

However, something interesting happened the other day. I tried half a dose of haidut's vitamin E product and later that day I had the same kind of heart palpitations I'd had from NDT. I didn't think anything of it at first, it was only when I had the same amount of vitamin e a few days later and the same thing occurred that I thought it was more than a coincidence. These palpitations happened the same way as when I was taking NDT, a small amount of acute mental stress would tend to trigger them.

My question is, is it possible that vitamin E could somehow be causing my heart palpitations, by lowering cortisol too much for example or through some other mechanism. Thanks.

 

[Simonsays]

Hi Soren,

Ive just posted basically the same question bizarrely , on my thread
Has Anyone Managed To Go From High Cortisol To A Normal Thyroid Functioning Body

.re missed heartbeats caused by possibly too much Vit E and higher metabolism???

I dont take NDT or Preg , just T4. But im doing mag spray for weeks and tablets now.