Thorne Research Vitamin K2 Derived From Soy?

[Logan-]

I was reading the reviews about this product ( https://www.iherb.com/pr/thorne-research-vitamin-k2-1-fl-oz-30-ml/21592 ) and saw this:

Got this answer from Thorn: The source of the Vitamin K2 is from a natural plant source Geraniol . The mixed tocopherols are from soy but contain no soy residue. Medium chain triglyceride are from palm kernel oil.

And this:

it's good but points off for trace amounts of soy
Posted by iHerb Customer on Jul 17, 2013
first off this is probably the best k-supplement on the market price-wise. i like using it and enjoy a bunch of health benefits but it gives me an itch. that's applying it on my wrists for transdermal absorption, swallowing it gives me the same brainfog soy always does even in trace amounts. 2 stars of for the fact that it contains soy and an extra of for the no-mention. the health food industry would do good from a boost of honesty really. with thorne being one of the companies profiled as "hypo-allergenic" and whatever.

What do you think about this?

 

[ilikecats]

@Logan- most vitamin e that is “mixed tocopherols” is derived from soy, I’m sure the vitamin e In haiduts “mixed tocopherols with Mct oil” is derived from soy as well. Ray says it should not be a problem because it’s such a tiny amount and We all know he hates soy. Also that statement was made in the context of full blown vitamin e supps, that Thorne k2 mixture contains very little vitamin e

 

[ilikecats]

@Logan ps ive never seem a mixed tocopherols supp that wasn’t derived from soy... you can get alpha tocopherols derived from sunflower oil though.

 

[Logan-]

The products listed in my post (https://raypeatforum.com/community/...een-good-quality-vitamin-e-supplements.24551/) are said to be not derived from soy, including haidut's Tocovit.

 

[ilikecats]

@Logan- thats a different vitamin e than the vitamin e that’s used as a carrier in some of haiduts Supps. But yes tocovit is not derived from soy. I glanced at the list... unique e is certainly derived from soy

 

[ilikecats]

@Logan- whole e by health natura is derived from soy as well. But like I said it shouldn’t matter. “Purely e” looks interesting and doesn’t have soy. Some of those things that they are deriving the tocopherols from are possibly estrogenic though So I’m not sure it’s any better

 

[Logan-]

@ilikecats you are right. I just checked them and those two are derived from soy.

 

[Logan-]

By the way, which vitamin e product do you prefer?

 

[ilikecats]

@Logan- interesting enough I use life extensions natural e derived from sunflower oil. That only has alpha tocopherols though. I use it infrequently though and topically... I’ve never been a fan of vitamin E in larger amounts and I keep PUFA intake below a gram a day so that lowers my vitamin E requirements. I take a lot of Thorne vitamin K2 and quite a few haidut supps with trace amounts of vitamin E so I figure that’s enough. Tocovit looks interesting though but I haven’t tried it. I need to revisit some of the info on alpha tocopherol supplementation vs mixed tocopherols supplementation. I believe haidut posted a study that alpha tocopherol supplementation doesn’t deplete the other tocopherols which was a worry for some with regards to alpha only supplementation. I used unique E for a little bit. There was a lot of threads here on that products decline in quality if I recall

 

[Logan-]

I have seen many on the forum say that it is best to take them mixed.

It's not proper to call vitamin E 'dangerous' because it's not solely one noun, but a small class of molecules. If a study had shown that the administration of α-tocopherol to people had increased cancer risk by ~5%, or whatever, then this is most likely either to do with simple variance or its ability to displace γ-topopherol: the most pro-
tective form. The two aforementioned molecules are both often simply referred to as 'vitamin E' by some people, yet are not interchangeable. Due to one less methyl group on its chromanol ring, gamma-topopherol can trap reactive nitrogen species; alpha-tocopherol cannot do this. Gamma-topopherol is always carcinostatic in every assay tested in every single study, and α-tocopherol is only dangerous to the extent that it displaces its molecular cousin. For this reason: mixed tocopherols exclusive-
ly should be consumed, and I would bet the farm that any study showing 'vitamin E ineffective'— or even 'dangerous'—had used the α-tocopherol congener alone.

Taking alpha-only Vitamin E depletes gamma, so it's good to take some gamma as well.

I take both the high-gamma (Swanson) and high-alpha (Carlson E-Gems Plus) just because I bought both at the same time to test. I feel better though when I take the high-gamma, the one you have. It's a matter of experimenting.

But the Swanson already has mixed tocopherols, so I don't think you're missing anything. The Deva Vegan also has mixed tocopherols, and so does Carlson E-Gems Plus. I think the problem occurs when you take one that has only alpha, then it might deplete the gamma tocopherols, so you'll have less benefits, I don't know if it would actually be harmful.

If you didn't have any trouble, that's good news, because those pills have a ton of vitamin E. I think each pill has like 1200 mg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia16kPWXnOM Dr. Mercola also says the same.

 

[Logan-]

I use life extensions natural e derived from sunflower oil. That only has alpha tocopherols though.

They have two more products, though I don't know if these are not derived from soy or not:
Gamma E Mixed Tocopherols
Enhanced natural form of vitamin E
https://www.iherb.com/pr/Life-Extension-Gamma-E-Mixed-Tocopherols-60-Softgels/71779

Gamma E Mixed Tocopherols & Tocotrienols
Complete spectrum of vitamin E forms
https://www.lifeextension.com/Vitamins-Supplements/item02070/Gamma-E-Tocopherol-Tocotrienols
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000VHV3BM/ref=psdc_3774791_t1_B00CS4CMX4

Edit: The last product "contains soybeans."

 

[Travis]

I have seen many on the forum say that it is best to take them mixed.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia16kPWXnOM Dr. Mercola also says the same.

This is good, but I think most people would agree that taking γ-tocopherol alone would also be safe. The tocopherol binding & transporting protein—or the uptake mechanism—has a significantly higher affinity for α-tocopherol than any other. This means that you hardly displace α-tocopherol with γ-tocopherol, only the converse is possible. The ability of γ-tocopherol to be depleted by α-tocopherol has been studied, verified, and can be used to explain why some vitamin E prospective trials show slight increases in cancer risk from its long-term supplementation.

 

[ilikecats]

@Travis what brand of gamma tocopherol do you use?

 

[Travis]

@Travis what brand of gamma tocopherol do you use?

I have the Swansons™, yet it does have a small amount of linoleic acid. On Amazon.com: they have two images depicting two separate labels and I had initially clicked on, more-or-less randomly, the one image not listing 'rice brain oil;' only later had I realized there had been, and still is, two separate labels pictured. Unfortunately, the label on the bottle—at least, on my particular bottle—can be superimposed over the one listing 'rice bran oil.'

I did a small volume estimation: The total tocopherols have a mass of 1·mg which translates into about 1·cm³; the capsule appears to be about 2·cm³. This leaves only about 1·cm³ for gelatin, glycerin, rice bran oil, purified water, and caramel color—in that order. Since these ingredients are listed by mass, or are supposed to be, that leaves a maximum of roughly 333·μg of rice bran oil. Since rice bran oil is 34.4% linoleic acid, this yields about 110·μg of linoleic acid per pill at the most. The only good amount linoleic acid is 'no linoleic acid,' yet this is still only ¹⁄₆ the amount found in one egg.

 

[haidut]

@Logan- most vitamin e that is “mixed tocopherols” is derived from soy, I’m sure the vitamin e In haiduts “mixed tocopherols with Mct oil” is derived from soy as well. Ray says it should not be a problem because it’s such a tiny amount and We all know he hates soy. Also that statement was made in the context of full blown vitamin e supps, that Thorne k2 mixture contains very little vitamin e

Correct, except for TocoVit, which is derived form wheat germ oil and does not contain any material derived/sourced from soy.

 

[ilikecats]

@Travis Cool thanks for the info. I might give that product a try.

@haidut Yeah I mentioned that Tocovit wasn't derived from soy earlier in the thread. I haven't tried it yet though. I think it might be next on my list of supplements to try!

 

[Travis]

@Travis Cool thanks for the info. I might give that product a try.

@haidut Yeah I mentioned that Tocovit wasn't derived from soy earlier in the thread. I haven't tried it yet though. I think it might be next on my list of supplements to try!

I would recommend using this remove reactive nitrogen species created naturally, and also those introduced through the environment. Smoke from cigarettes contains about 500·ppm nitric oxide and some other reactive nitrogen species; these are actually pyrolysis products of the ammonia added to the tobacco, a practice done to raise its pH. Nicotine has a more difficult time volatizing in its low-pH, protonated, and positively-charged form because it then will physically attract to negatively-charged glutamate/aspartate side-chains. Ammonia deprotonates the nicotine molecules in tobacco, lowering the temperature in which they will enter the gas phase.

High nitric oxide can also be induced through arginine supplementation, which can help overcome an infection. Macrophages rely on iNOS-derived nitric oxide to destroy invaders, similar to how myeloperoxidase-derived hypochlorite & hypoiodite is used for neutrophils.

Smokers of commercial tobacco and those battling infection with arginine should find γ-tocopherol particularly useful, but it's one of those things that should be good for everyone.