The Effect Of Vitamin A Supplementation On Thyroid Function In Premenopausal Women

[Giraffe]

From judging the table I would rewrite the abstract:

"...RESULTS: Baseline concentrations of thyroid hormones, RBP and TTR were not significantly different between groups. Vitamin A caused a significant greater reduction in serum TSH concentrations in obese (p = 0.004) and nonobese (p = 0.001) groups than was seen in the placebo group. Serum T3 concentrations also increased more in both obese and nonobese vitamin A-treated groups (p < 0.001) than in the placebo group. Serum T4 decreased in all 3 groups after treatment. There was a greater reduction of T4 in the sublemented obese group than in the two other groups. The results showed a significant reduction in serum RBP in the obese group after vitamin A supplementation (p = 0.007), but no significant change was seen in serum TTR. Seasonal changes of the thyroid hormones were seen in all groups.
CONCLUSIONS: Serum TSH concentrations in vitamin A-treated subjects were significantly reduced; therefore, vitamin A supplementation might reduce the risk of subclinical hypothyroidism in premenopausal women. Nonobese with a lower baseline TSH concentration profit more from vitamin A supplementation than obese."

 

[aguilaroja]

...Vitamin A lowered TSH and increased T3 in both lean and obese humans. Given that obese people are very likely hypothyroid, this underscores the positive effects of vitamin A even on thyroid function of compromised metabolism/health. The dose used was not that high (25,000 IU daily for 4 months) but it is still 6 times higher than the RDA.
...

From a later study by the same lead author:

"Treatment with 25,000 IU/d vitamin A induced a mild elevation in serum lipids, CRP and liver enzymes in obese and non-obese women. Considering the other information about possible side-effects of excess vitamin A, use of vitamin A in this dose and duration should be considered with caution."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23148279

Farhangi MA, Keshavarz SA, Eshraghian M, Ostadrahimi A, Saboor-Yaraghi AA.
Vitamin A supplementation, serum lipids, liver enzymes and C-reactive protein concentrations in obese women of reproductive age.
Ann Clin Biochem. 2013 Jan;50(Pt 1):25-30. doi: 10.1258/acb.2012.012096. Epub 2012 Nov 12.

 

[Dean]

Since I've had problems getting estroban out of the bottle, I've been taking off the dropper and pouring it out, often though getting "too much." I've been wiping some off (and wasting) out of fear of getting too much A and suppressing thyroid. Guess I'll just rub 'er in and see what happens for a while.

 

[sweetpeat]

Is it possible the vitamin A is helping in the conversion of t4 to t3, rather than improving function of the thyroid gland itself? The participants of the study were female, and females usually have issues of conversion due to higher estrogen. And vitamin A is anti-estrogenic. T4 levels came down and t3 levels went up, which to me suggests better conversion.

The reason I'm making the distinction is because my recent labs while I was off thyroid supps showed below range t4, with t3 low but in range. It looks like I have decent conversion, but not enough t4 output from my thyroid. As much as I would rather take vitamin A than thyroid, I'm wondering if taking more vitamin A would lower my t4 even more and put me in a more hypo state. It seems like I need somehow to increase endogenous t4 (if that's possible), and perhaps my t3 would mostly take care of itself. Or do you think the vitamin A would work in my case?

 

[Sea]

post 105175 Is it possible the vitamin A is helping in the conversion of t4 to t3, rather than improving function of the thyroid gland itself? The participants of the study were female, and females usually have issues of conversion due to higher estrogen. And vitamin A is anti-estrogenic. T4 levels came down and t3 levels went up, which to me suggests better conversion.

The reason I'm making the distinction is because my recent labs while I was off thyroid supps showed below range t4, with t3 low but in range. It looks like I have decent conversion, but not enough t4 output from my thyroid. As much as I would rather take vitamin A than thyroid, I'm wondering if taking more vitamin A would lower my t4 even more and put me in a more hypo state. It seems like I need somehow to increase endogenous t4 (if that's possible), and perhaps my t3 would mostly take care of itself. Or do you think the vitamin A would work in my case?

I don't think you should pay much attention to these types of labs. Measure your temp and pulse rate, then take some vitamin A and observe what happens. One time might not be enough to tell, but if you take too much vitamin A your temp/pulse will decline and it will be obvious to you it was too much. If your temp/pulse doesn't decline or increases then you could probably take more. Ray Peat has said that hypothyroid people only require about 5000iu of vitamin A/day so if your temp/pulse are below normal you probably don't need more than that, but to instead utilize supplements like caffeine that increase the temp/pulse. You increase the thyroid output by eating food and then taking supplements that increase your temp/pulse, then you eat more food and keep taking the supplements to maintain that higher temp/pulse so your body heals and you start to no longer need those supplements.

 

[Giraffe]

post 105175 Is it possible the vitamin A is helping in the conversion of t4 to t3, rather than improving function of the thyroid gland itself?

If you are deficient in vitamin A supplementation should increase both T3 and T4. This is probably to do with the retinol binding protein.

post 105175 The reason I'm making the distinction is because my recent labs while I was off thyroid supps showed below range t4, with t3 low but in range. It looks like I have decent conversion, but not enough t4 output from my thyroid.

Whas rT3 measured? In the last herb doctors interview ("Nitric Oxide") Ray Peat said that stress hormones downregulate TSH, and that high cortisol causes the liver to turn T4 into rT3.

 

[sweetpeat]

the effects of vitamin A supplementation parallel the effects of supplementing T3

Somehow I missed this sentence from the original post. I guess I read these things too fast sometimes.
My apologies.

 

[youngandold]

Really?
Then why studies on those with hypervitaminosis-A don't mention hyperthyroid-like symptoms?

If it rises T3 indeed but lowers TSH then the lower TSH would reduce thyroid output thus offseting any temporarily higher T3.

 

[paymanz]

Really?
Then why studies on those with hypervitaminosis-A don't mention hyperthyroid-like symptoms?

If it rises T3 indeed but lowers TSH then the lower TSH would reduce thyroid output thus offseting any temporarily higher T3.

good question , maybe that explains ray's advise to not go over 5,000 A in hypothyroid persons.

maybe doing a personal experiment can answer how it can effect thyroid function.

 

[Giraffe]

Full text.

 

[raypeatclips]

I am not convinced people without actual thyroid disease need to take hormone replacement therapy.

Do you still stand by this, haidut? If so, what protocol would you use for lowering TSH, without thyroid hormone?

 

[haidut]

Do you still stand by this, haidut? If so, what protocol would you use for lowering TSH, without thyroid hormone?

Yes, with the clarification that people with serious chronic conditions often have hypothyroidism symptoms that may need supplementation because the gland can only produce so much. I have seen people who have T4/T3 levels off the charts and their TSH is in the 8-9 range because the body still thinks they are hypo due to thyroid hormone being blocked from exerting its action. For many people without serious chronic conditions something as simple as inhibiting lipolysis may do the trick of improving thyroid response, so there is no need to supplement more thyroid.

 

[Wagner83]

Yes, with the clarification that people with serious chronic conditions often have hypothyroidism symptoms that may need supplementation because the gland can only produce so much. I have seen people who have T4/T3 levels off the charts and their TSH is in the 8-9 range because the body still thinks they are hypo due to thyroid hormone being blocked from exerting its action. For many people without serious chronic conditions something as simple as inhibiting lipolysis may do the trick of improving thyroid response, so there is no need to supplement more thyroid.

Ok, it sounds like you would favor niacinamide , a diet low in fat and be against something like T3 and/or pansterone on scrotum unless there are proven chronic conditions, am I right ?
In most cases it sounds like niacinamide and a diet void of the msot harmful foods should be sufficient.

 

[haidut]

Ok, it sounds like you would favor niacinamide , a diet low in fat and be against something like T3 and/or pansterone on scrotum unless there are proven chronic conditions, am I right ?
In most cases it sounds like niacinamide and a diet void of the msot harmful foods should be sufficient.

Yep, that would be where I stand now. At least that is my experience and the reports I have been getting over the last 2 years.

 

[Dotdash]

Some of these individuals were already considered hypothyroid though no TSH measurement for them is provided in the study. And they had no adverse affects with a daily intake of 25,000IU or 175,000 IU weekly. Also, it seems the supplement was in addition to any food source of "A" they also were taking in.

If one eats 3 oz liver weekly that's 26,000IU approx., one quart milk daily = 2,000IU approx times 7 = 14,000IU weekly. Those two foods alone equal 40,000 IU weekly. That is more than the 5,000IU daily recommended by RP as an upper limit for hypo individuals. If one drinks more than a quart of milk daily and takes in other "A" containing foods then this will further remove one from a maximum intake of 5,000IU daily.

When I ate a great deal of green salads my daily intake of Vitamin "A" was quite high yet I never experienced detrimental effects. It probably was more protective than I realized. After being diagnosed subclinical hypothyroid I stopped taking in as much "A". I think that was a mistake. I'm glad to have found this thread and study. It also helps to know how to measure the effectiveness of taking scary amounts of "A" by tracking temps/pulse. Thank you for sharing this study!

 

[Arrade]

Interesting, these posts here are saying the 5,000 iu rule may not be necessary.
I'm glad because all I have is 10,000 iu Vit A, going to poke around and try them every once in a while.

This is because my estrogen is high. Though when I plan to fix my TSH-hypothyroid Vit A seems good to use

 

[Dotdash]

Interesting, these posts here are saying the 5,000 iu rule may not be necessary.
I'm glad because all I have is 10,000 iu Vit A, going to poke around and try them every once in a while.

This is because my estrogen is high. Though when I plan to fix my TSH-hypothyroid Vit A seems good to use

You might also read the study posted in the thread "Effect of Vitamin C on the Absorption of Levothyroxine". It too seems to have a positive effect on lowering TSH and increasing T4 and T3. The study is centered on persons already on thyroxine but the data is, to me, pertinent to hypo individuals who are not on thyroid medication.

 

[Arrade]

You might also read the study posted in the thread "Effect of Vitamin C on the Absorption of Levothyroxine". It too seems to have a positive effect on lowering TSH and increasing T4 and T3. The study is centered on persons already on thyroxine but the data is, to me, pertinent to hypo individuals who are not on thyroid medication.

Thanks for the heads up, definitely will

 

[Lokzo]

50k IU/day for a couple weeks now and I have had to stop taking aspirin and greatly lower my dosages of thyroid and caffeine to keep from going too hyperthyroid.

What sort of symptoms were you experiencing when you tipping towards Hyperthyroid?