The Biology Of (Romantic) Love

aguineapig

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This has become more and more of a fascinating subject to me over the past 7 or 8 years. In fact, at times, and for certain people, I think the euphoria of romantic love is the pinnacle of "drug highs". I have heard heroin described as feeling like love, cocaine obviously merges into the realm of love and libido, and my own experience with alcohol was after a painful breakup, trying to approximate some feelings of love.

Certain studies peek into this stuff. For example, this relatively publicized one where looking at the picture of one's muse triggers a pretty significant dopaminergic response. But I also question how much greater it would be, if it were not simply a picture of their muse's face, in a sterile hospital environment, with their head ace bandaged to a PET scanner. Talk about a buzzkill.

Then there is SLAA which not only encompasses the more material sexaholics but also the compulsive obsessionists ("romance intrigue"), who become so emotionally dysregulated off of their endogenous drugs that they come up with all kinds of contortionistic coping strategies like their coined sexual/emotional/social anorexia.

This struck me, as during a crazy period in my life, I had to avoid interacting with women, sometimes altogether, or at times would be highly reserved or misrepresent myself out of fear of "falling in love"--either outright, or by receiving some kind of social cue of being accepted or garnering interest, but not wanting to deal with the ensuing tumult and break up etc.

I see polyamory as being almost like a late stage addiction to endogenous drugs, where serial monogamy no longer hits the vein.

Anyway, it is just such a strikingly fascinating subject. I would enjoy seeing more pertinent research, as so much is very trite and pop culturey. The under evidenced "love lowers serotonin" assertion being an example--I suspect it likely does, but I haven't seen really good evidence. And they immediately liken the state to OCD with its intrusive thoughts (I struggled with OCD and brought myself back to functionality in living with intrusive thoughts with a combination of cyproheptadine and buspirone to lower serotonin).

How do the biological chips fall? is it lowered serotonin, or increased dopamine/noradrenaline? Endogenous amphetamines like PEA have been implicated too. Who knows, but I am interested.
 

Bluemachine

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This has become more and more of a fascinating subject to me over the past 7 or 8 years. In fact, at times, and for certain people, I think the euphoria of romantic love is the pinnacle of "drug highs". I have heard heroin described as feeling like love, cocaine obviously merges into the realm of love and libido, and my own experience with alcohol was after a painful breakup, trying to approximate some feelings of love.

Certain studies peek into this stuff. For example, this relatively publicized one where looking at the picture of one's muse triggers a pretty significant dopaminergic response. But I also question how much greater it would be, if it were not simply a picture of their muse's face, in a sterile hospital environment, with their head ace bandaged to a PET scanner. Talk about a buzzkill.

Then there is SLAA which not only encompasses the more material sexaholics but also the compulsive obsessionists ("romance intrigue"), who become so emotionally dysregulated off of their endogenous drugs that they come up with all kinds of contortionistic coping strategies like their coined sexual/emotional/social anorexia.

This struck me, as during a crazy period in my life, I had to avoid interacting with women, sometimes altogether, or at times would be highly reserved or misrepresent myself out of fear of "falling in love"--either outright, or by receiving some kind of social cue of being accepted or garnering interest, but not wanting to deal with the ensuing tumult and break up etc.

I see polyamory as being almost like a late stage addiction to endogenous drugs, where serial monogamy no longer hits the vein.

Anyway, it is just such a strikingly fascinating subject. I would enjoy seeing more pertinent research, as so much is very trite and pop culturey. The under evidenced "love lowers serotonin" assertion being an example--I suspect it likely does, but I haven't seen really good evidence. And they immediately liken the state to OCD with its intrusive thoughts (I struggled with OCD and brought myself back to functionality in living with intrusive thoughts with a combination of cyproheptadine and buspirone to lower serotonin).

How do the biological chips fall? is it lowered serotonin, or increased dopamine/noradrenaline? Endogenous amphetamines like PEA have been implicated too. Who knows, but I am interested.
cocaine and other similar stimulants only ever felt like lust and a desire for further stimulation for me. the only drug induced love i ever felt was from mushrooms. interesting topic though, i have recently found myself craving a romantic relationship though i don't socalise really at all and will avoid doing so even when presented with oppurtunity. largely because of my near constant lack of energy but also my ocd habits. how was your experience with the serotonin lowering drugs? any negative side effects? i just recently did a psychotherapy course which really helped me deal with one perticular phobia but i worry the relief will be temporary
 
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aguineapig

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In January I was unable to comfortably leave my room due to horrible harm OCD. Since starting Buspirone and taking Cypro I have gotten my 2 stroke motor bike permit, learned to work on my motor bike myself, working on getting a regular driver's license, moved, moved again, and went out with a lady for the first time in forever. I still struggle at times but vastly more functional.

I do wonder if the afterglow from pshycodelics is simply 5-HT2A down regulation. That's my best guess--they fundamentally change the receptors and how our endogenous ligands interact with them.
 

Diokine

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This is a fascinating topic. There are a few statements and questions I'd like to pose.

I love you, you love me, we're a happy family.

We tend to love what is beautiful

What is the difference between art created by the satisfied vs. the unsatisfied? Do we look at a muse and record what we see, or do we record our frustration at being unable to see completely?

Is beauty subjective or objective?

Krishnamurti said "beauty is clarity of perception"

Clarity indicates fidelity towards origin, as in a strong signal. So maybe this indicates the potential that beauty is objective?

But perception is not uniform, so maybe in practice beauty is subjective. Beauty breeds desire, so in romantic love something is triggered that says "I want you." I think in a healthy relationship this reciprocity represents something like the pinnacle of life's study - true love.

But we hurt each other. How can that be if our love is true? In some sense this creates dissatisfaction. This leads to creativity, generating more beauty. So in a sense if you are not satisfied with the love you see, have some courage and find a better example - or create it.

Anyways forgive the lack of beauty in this technical nonsense. If you would enjoy some words from someone who knows what they are talking about, see work by Semir Zeki.
 
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aguineapig

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@michael94 eros-tonin is implicated in love

of course--but how, in which ways, etc? There are different ways to perceive love too; as an ultimate state of euphoria, or a madness. And each of those could be viewed positively or negatively themselves.
 

LUH 3417

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of course--but how, in which ways, etc? There are different ways to perceive love too; as an ultimate state of euphoria, or a madness. And each of those could be viewed positively or negatively themselves.
By putting blinders on your vision and morphing the love object into a balm, having the potential to cure you of all that ails you, the greatest hope of all hopes for any mortal.
 

LUH 3417

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Romantic love of such intensity is a form of learned helplessness. It’s near complete reliance on another person for your own well being. You don’t want someone, you need them, and the pangs of need are like an anesthetic, as you wallow in the memory of pleasure and wait longingly for the next dose. Romance is transcendence through suffering, it’s very religious.
 
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aguineapig

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Romantic love of such intensity is a form of learned helplessness. It’s near complete reliance on another person for your own well being. You don’t want someone, you need them, and the pangs of need are like an anesthetic, as you wallow in the memory of pleasure and wait longingly for the next dose. Romance is transcendence through suffering, it’s very religious.

Yes, here's some red meat!
 

Arnold Grape

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My ex’s roommate was constantly in the throes of a new Tinder romance, every five months. Constantly I had to endure the stories of never ending heartbreak, as the perfect match went from marriage concept to painful disillusionment, over and over again. I don’t find anything wrong with this process, personally, because it’s not necessarily boring, but I could not help but see the repetition and transparency to this person’s plight. Modern romance and dating apps give us easy access to this, which is fun if you are young.
 
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aguineapig

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That went over my head but hopefully it’s juicy

What I mean is that the likening to learned helplessness is apt, and something to sink ones teeth into. I wish I had made that connection before as it definitely describes past feelings.
 

LUH 3417

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What I mean is that the likening to learned helplessness is apt, and something to sink ones teeth into. I wish I had made that connection before as it definitely describes past feelings.
I realized this after thinking I was in love and taking 28mg of cypro one day and completely falling out of love.
 

LUH 3417

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?? How could you have any type of epiphany after taking that much Cypro? Jfc.
It actually never made me sedated. It was sort of psychedelic at that high a dose. Cypro never ever made me sleepy and I respond to it completely differently than most of the testimonies I’ve read here.
 
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aguineapig

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I realized this after thinking I was in love and taking 28mg of cypro one day and completely falling out of love.

First of thanks for the laugh, you have a way with words. Second, I'm going to try this as I am serially sucked into romantic intrigue.

I did notice recently that a dose of propranolol pulled me out of a obsessional binge over another gal to some extent. I think putting the brakes on the stress system messes with the biological prison riot that was going on.

You think for an attractive nubile, the learned helplessness descriptor no longer applies?
 

LUH 3417

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First of thanks for the laugh, you have a way with words. Second, I'm going to try this as I am serially sucked into romantic intrigue.

I did notice recently that a dose of propranolol pulled me out of a obsessional binge over another gal to some extent. I think putting the brakes on the stress system messes with the biological prison riot that was going on.

You think for an attractive nubile, the learned helplessness descriptor no longer applies?
Aw why thank you. I’ve always been a hopeless romantic. I used to leave my crush love letters in his kindergarten cubbie. It was actually a terrible life, I would fall in love with people on subways, planes, just looking at their hands. And I mean real love feelings shaking me to my core and washing over my entire body just by admiring someone’s hands or neck or sideburns. Even typing it gives me palpitations. I’m not sure what my deal is, biological, psychological, spiritual. I’m extremely sensitive. Maybe the people who have the courage to approach strangers or the charisma to flirt don’t experience it as learned helplessness. I just get really shy and stay in my dream world of what could have been.
 
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aguineapig

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I recently got together with a lady I had written with for a couple years and had sort of mutually friend zoned, but going into it friendly and relaxed with zero sexual tension made the whole thing excruciatingly pleasant and moreish. Especially because we had written extensively and had a good rapport to converse (I'm very "demisexual"). Worst of all my older former hypersexual friend thought she was low key attracted to me. This created quite a whirlwind for a bit.

Generally I just misrepresent myself and put up a kind of schizotypal facade, which does really well to minimize any cues that someone might be possibly, remotely attracted to me. But I'm this case I screwed up.

So anyway, the high dose cypro is a very interesting idea. I'm trippling my low dose to see if it finishes the job of bringing me back to realville.
 

redsun

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I realized this after thinking I was in love and taking 28mg of cypro one day and completely falling out of love.

I would fall out of love as well if I killed my acetylcholine, dopamine, and histamine with that much cypro.

I recently got together with a lady I had written with for a couple years and had sort of mutually friend zoned, but going into it friendly and relaxed with zero sexual tension made the whole thing excruciatingly pleasant and moreish. Especially because we had written extensively and had a good rapport to converse (I'm very "demisexual"). Worst of all my older former hypersexual friend thought she was low key attracted to me. This created quite a whirlwind for a bit.

Generally I just misrepresent myself and put up a kind of schizotypal facade, which does really well to minimize any cues that someone might be possibly, remotely attracted to me. But I'm this case I screwed up.

So anyway, the high dose cypro is a very interesting idea. I'm trippling my low dose to see if it finishes the job of bringing me back to realville.

What makes you think cypro is going to bring you back into reality? High doses basically kills your brain's neurotransmitter activity as a whole. That's a great way to feel dumb, not sane.
 
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LUH 3417

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I would fall out of love as well if I killed my acetylcholine, dopamine, and histamine with that much cypro.



What makes you think cypro is going to bring you back into reality? High doses basically kills your brain's neurotranamitter activity as a whole. That's a great way to feel dumb, not sane.
I actually also passed a licensing exam after trying 3 times before using that much cypro so sorry but you’re wrong.
 

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