The Big Misunderstanding About PUFA Depletion

[YuraCZ]

If something has a long half-life it doesn't take a large chronic dose to develop large stores of it.

That's true.. But if you have under 10% body fat and if you eat Peat friendly low pufa diet. I don't see PUFA as a problem anymore. Right now I'm trying burn as much fat as possible. Hopefully under 8% with lower fat and higher carb diet and with cycling every day. So after that if I will gain some fat again. It will be saturated fat from the carbs not from PUFA..

 

[Such_Saturation]

If something has a long half-life it doesn't take a large chronic dose to develop large stores of it.

That's true.. But if you have under 10% body fat and if you eat Peat friendly low pufa diet. I don't see PUFA as a problem anymore. Right now I'm trying burn as much fat as possible. Hopefully under 8% with lower fat and higher carb diet and with cycling every day. So after that if I will gain some fat again. It will be saturated fat from the carbs not from PUFA..

But PUFA is almost like a hormone, you only need milligrams to show effects. You also have desaturase enzymes that are induced by various substanes such as other fats.

 

[SaltGirl]

I thought Andrew Kim had disputed the half-life of PUFA and shown(with studies) that you can get rid of it faster than Ray Peat predicted?

http://www.andrewkimblog.com/2013/02/dr ... fe-of.html

 

[Such_Saturation]

To put it another way, on average, 116 grams of body fat was lost per day. (A far cry from Dr. Peat’s estimate of 4 years.5)

What even

 

[XPlus]

It's the ratio of saturated fats to PUFA that matters.
PUFA stores reflect the average long-term intake of PUFA from the diet. A good diet where the source of fat is mostly from coconut oil, butter, tallow, eggs, milk, red meat and shellfish would probably constitute about 1-3% PUFA.

This 1-3% should be highly mitigated by the saturation effect of Vitmain E and immediate burning (i.e. by skipping storage).

 

[XPlus]

To put it another way, on average, 116 grams of body fat was lost per day. (A far cry from Dr. Peat’s estimate of 4 years.5)

What even

At the expense of the liver?

 

[Philomath]

"Lizzie Velasquez suffers from a rare disorder and must eat every 15 minutes to stay alive.

Velasquez, a 21-year-old Texan, is unable to put on weight and must eat 5,000-8,000 calories a day. That's approximately 60 meals a day.

Velasquez is believed to be just a few in the entire world to suffer from Neonatal Progeroid Syndrome, which also accelerates with aging. She eats all kinds of food, including junk food, at will without gaining any weight.

She told the Telegraph, "I weigh myself regularly and if I gain even one pound I get really excited."

http://goo.gl/QsylmH

Lizzie needs to be introduced to Ray Peat Ice Cream

 

[haidut]

Ray said one interview that flamingos eat mostly saturated fat through their diet and as a result live so long that nobody has managed to track it properly since the flamingos outlived all researchers More importantly, flamingos were found to have no degeneration with age - a 10 years old flamingo was as robust as a 50 year old one.
http://www.stinapa.org/nee/flamingo.html
"...Experts have not yet determined how long flamingos live. At the Philadelphia Zoo, one flamingo lived 44 years."
http://birds-extremadura.blogspot.com/2 ... lived.html
Their diet consists of algae that have mostly saturated fat, as is the case with many plants from tropical areas of the world.
To the point - as several people pointed out already it is impossible to have completely PUFA-free body outside of a lab, but a person can probably achieve under 1% PUFA saturation or intake from diet through careful steps. That 1% seems to be the magic point above which cancer incidence increases as well as CVD and neurological diseases. So, it looks like PUFA does have a sweet spot that is achievable through diet and maybe some supplementation with vitamin E, vitamin B6, and selenium. Ray wrote that vitamin E can directly "inactivate" PUFA even though he did not elaborate what this "inactivation" consists of.

 

[Such_Saturation]

Well, if coconut oil can't touch one percent, I don't know what will

 

[schultz]

Well, if coconut oil can't touch one percent, I don't know what will

Sugar

 

[montmorency]

You can never fully deplete PUFA from your fat tissue. It is impossible:

"The half-life of fats in human adipose tissue is about 600 days, meaning that significant amounts of previously consumed oils will still be present up to four years after they have been removed from the diet." - RP

Is PUFA really only stored in the adipose tissue? If so, I feel like it's not as bad as I thought. What if you are slim (little adipose tissue) or your adipocytes are healthy (release fat efficiently and in volume)? Clearly for people with good weight there's no PUFA accumulation after some point in adipose tissue otherwise the volume would eventually grow and it would show on the weight.

I think the idea is that the body recognises the danger of pufa and so preferentially burns saturated fat. This means that there is a bias towards the storing of pufa in the adipose tissue. Because of this tendency the ratio of Pufa:Sfa in the adipose tissue will grow. This means the volume of adipose tissue can stay the same while Pufa becomes a bigger and bigger problem.

I think you may be on to something here.

Because otherwise, bearing in mind what Ray says about it being the proportion of PUFA to overall fat consumption that is important, I couldn't quite see what the big deal was. If you only consume the meat of ruminants, and no fatty fish, and only use coconut oil and/or pasture-fed raw butter, and not too many eggs, surely your proportion of PUFAs consumed would remain very low.

However, if stored saturated fat is burned preferentially to unsaturated, then yes, the proportion of stored PUFA's is going to go up over time.

hmm...interesting.

 

[4peatssake]

Just found this little gem in my files.

Q: are you a supporter of using some kind of natural pig thyroid?

RP: Yes, when someone has been poisoned by stress and a bad diet, many things interfere with the ability to form and use Thyroid hormone. PUFAs will interfere both with production, transport and ability to respond to it, through poisoning of the mitochondria that use it. When you are under stress, by the time person is about 30 years old, their tissues have had time to store PUFA, even if they are not eating very much in the diet, the body preferentially oxidises saturated fats and sugar, and puts the PUFA into storage. So when you are stressed and over 30, your blood will fill with PUFA, which blocks Thyroid function as well as production of protective steroid hormones.

 

[bluewren]

Just found this little gem in my files.

Q: are you a supporter of using some kind of natural pig thyroid?

RP: Yes, when someone has been poisoned by stress and a bad diet, many things interfere with the ability to form and use Thyroid hormone. PUFAs will interfere both with production, transport and ability to respond to it, through poisoning of the mitochondria that use it. When you are under stress, by the time person is about 30 years old, their tissues have had time to store PUFA, even if they are not eating very much in the diet, the body preferentially oxidises saturated fats and sugar, and puts the PUFA into storage. So when you are stressed and over 30, your blood will fill with PUFA, which blocks Thyroid function as well as production of protective steroid hormones.

Great quote! Thanks.

 

[YuraCZ]

"So when you are stressed and over 30, your blood will fill with PUFA"

which does not happen if you are athlete(carb burning machine) with 5% of body fat..

 

[Such_Saturation]

Good for yu

 

[haidut]

"So when you are stressed and over 30, your blood will fill with PUFA"

which does not happen if you are athlete(carb burning machine) with 5% of body fat..

Actually, athletes are fat burning machines. The ones with big muscles burn fat naturally through the muscle's preference for fat (at rest) and the lean, catabolic-looking runners, rowers, etc burn fat through adaptation from the countless "endurance" exercises they have done. The only true carb burning machines are babies and children under 12. But the low body fat percentage of athletes does offer some protection against the PUFA release since there isn't much stored to use anyways. What the body does instead is break down muscle to fuel these people. It's no coincidence that most athletes retire in their late 20s or early 30s. When you run in catabolic mode for so long you either have to take anabolic steroids to recover or you will start falling apart around the age of 30. It is also no coincidence that virtually all of these athletes put on a massive amount of weight after "retiring" from sports. They are so hypometabolic that once they stop burning calories through exertion their body will pack as fat every ounce of food eaten. So, here is a recipe for obesity in middle age - be a pro-level athlete in your younger years.

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think Michael Phelps keeps in ketosis, I guess there's no other way he could fit 10.000 calories inside of him.

 

[Blinkyrocket]

I think Michael Phelps keeps in ketosis, I guess there's no other way he could fit 10.000 calories inside of him.

Why do you have to be in ketosis to eat that much?

 

[Such_Saturation]

I think Michael Phelps keeps in ketosis, I guess there's no other way he could fit 10.000 calories inside of him.

Why do you have to be in ketosis to eat that much?

So you can just chug coconut oil one shot = 300kcal

 

[Blinkyrocket]

I think Michael Phelps keeps in ketosis, I guess there's no other way he could fit 10.000 calories inside of him.

Why do you have to be in ketosis to eat that much?

So you can just chug coconut oil one shot = 300kcal

Quite informative -_-