So Where Are The Real Dietary Guidelines?

Ron J

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I don't come across much about carb consumption appropriate to size and gender. Some members claim that they consume 300g-400g of carbs; assuming 50-60g of fats and 100-200g of protein, at max it comes out to 2940 cals. Many members aren't consuming 200g of protein, so at an average of 100g and max claims in other macros, it adds up to 2540 cals. That's what a woman should be eating(or more), according to some.
 

tara

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Not sure what you are expecting people to post. I agree that there are quite a few posts describing low calorie diets. There are also some posts here from people saying they are eating more.
There's some related discussion here:
Recovery From Undereating - Youreatopia
 
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Ron J

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Not sure what you are expecting people to post. I agree that there are quite a few posts describing low calorie diets. There are also some posts here from people saying they are eating more.
There's some related discussion here:
Recovery From Undereating - Youreatopia
The link you provided is actually quite helpful.
I'm expecting at least a rough estimate of carbs needed at different heights and genders.
""*Minimum Recommended Intake Guidelines for Recovery:
a) Females under the age of 25: 3000 calories and sedentary.
b) Females 5’0”-5’8” over the age of 25: 2500 calories and sedentary.
c) Males under the age of 25: 3500 calories and sedentary.
d) Males over the age of 25: 3000 calories and sedentary.
e) Females over 5’8” over age 25: 2700 calories; under age 25: 3200 calories.
f) Females over age 25 and under 5’0” as well as post-menopausal women can
lower the minimum intake to 2300, but more is always better.""

3,200 calories for a female under 25 over 58", yet I've seen comments from well built, taller males eating that, or probably less. "Males under the age of 25: 3500 calories and sedentary." Up to what height/size would that be for men?
 

tara

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The link you provided is actually quite helpful.
Bear in mind that this is not from Peat, but from Olwyn, and some not all their theories are in agreement. Olwyn's focus is primarily on recovery from restrictive eating disorders, and these guidelines as minima for that purpose, based on averages - I think she describes the sources she has based these on. You can't necessarily derived detailed guidelines from a paucity of data.

3,200 calories for a female under 25 over 58", yet I've seen comments from well built, taller males eating that, or probably less.
Yes, though according to Olwyn, the needs reduce once women and men get to full mature size around 25 yrs, so that may well be enough for a reasonably tall mature male, unless he is working extra hard.

I'm also thinking that posters here may not be immune to the phenomenon that in general people are not all that reliable at estimating their calorie intake. I certainly wouldn't bet much on the accuracy of my own estimates. In the general population, most people underestimate on average, while people with significant restrictive eating disorders have, on average, a tendency to over-estimate.

3,200 calories for a female under 25 over 58", yet I've seen comments from well built, taller males eating that, or probably less. "Males under the age of 25: 3500 calories and sedentary." Up to what height/size would that be for men?
You can go off and look up her articles - they are now at this site:
Patients and General Public
and there is more detail about her calorie guidelines in this article:
Phases of Recovery From An Eating Disorder Part 4.
 
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Ron J

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Bear in mind that this is not from Peat, but from Olwyn, and some not all their theories are in agreement. Olwyn's focus is primarily on recovery from restrictive eating disorders, and these guidelines as minima for that purpose, based on averages - I think she describes the sources she has based these on. You can't necessarily derived detailed guidelines from a paucity of data.


Yes, though according to Olwyn, the needs reduce once women and men get to full mature size around 25 yrs, so that may well be enough for a reasonably tall mature male, unless he is working extra hard.

I'm also thinking that posters here may not be immune to the phenomenon that in general people are not all that reliable at estimating their calorie intake. I certainly wouldn't bet much on the accuracy of my own estimates. In the general population, most people underestimate on average, while people with significant restrictive eating disorders have, on average, a tendency to over-estimate.


You can go off and look up her articles - they are now at this site:
Patients and General Public
and there is more detail about her calorie guidelines in this article:
Phases of Recovery From An Eating Disorder Part 4.
Thanks a lot. I'll go read those.
 

theLaw

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I don't come across much about carb consumption appropriate to size and gender. Some members claim that they consume 300g-400g of carbs; assuming 50-60g of fats and 100-200g of protein, at max it comes out to 2940 cals. Many members aren't consuming 200g of protein, so at an average of 100g and max claims in other macros, it adds up to 2540 cals. That's what a woman should be eating(or more), according to some.

Optimal diet for increasing lifespan
 
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Ron J

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Thanks for the link. I've read that before and I found the calories to be rather low.
And the there is also this: "The only problem I have with the study is that they did not test for life extension properties of diets with varying amounts of PUFA (or PUFA deficient altogether). The oil used for all diets was soy oil. However, that is to be expected given that to most researchers this scenario is not interesting since PUFAs are assumed to be essential for health but neutral for lifespan unless the organism is deficient in them."
The ratios are something to consider, and since I plan to do lower fat, or no fat for some weight loss, the ratio(protein to carb) will not be an issue.
 

theLaw

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Thanks for the link. I've read that before and I found the calories to be rather low.
And the there is also this: "The only problem I have with the study is that they did not test for life extension properties of diets with varying amounts of PUFA (or PUFA deficient altogether). The oil used for all diets was soy oil. However, that is to be expected given that to most researchers this scenario is not interesting since PUFAs are assumed to be essential for health but neutral for lifespan unless the organism is deficient in them."
The ratios are something to consider, and since I plan to do lower fat, or no fat for some weight loss, the ratio(protein to carb) will not be an issue.

The daily caloric needs apparently fall (sometimes significantly) when healthy metabolism is restored.

From members who have cleaned their liver + reduced pufa + healed their digestion, there is common theme of lower caloric needs day to day.

Ray suggests a pretty wide margin for fat up to 33% of calories.

Here's an interesting thread from a member who details the process of healing his metabolism using high-dose caffeine. I mention this because this is an extreme protocol for sure, but was apparently necessary for him to see such dramatic results in a short time. Many people here might just have the wrong perspective because of the slow speed of their healing process:

My Theory on Digestion
 
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Ron J

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The daily caloric needs apparently fall (sometimes significantly) when healthy metabolism is restored.

From members who have cleaned their liver + reduced pufa + healed their digestion, there is common theme of lower caloric needs day to day.

Ray suggests a pretty wide margin for fat up to 33% of calories.

Here's an interesting thread from a member who details the process of healing his metabolism using high-dose caffeine. I mention this because this is an extreme protocol for sure, but was apparently necessary for him to see such dramatic results in a short time. Many people here might just have the wrong perspective because of the slow speed of their healing process:

My Theory on Digestion
I'll read it, thanks.
"Many people here might just have the wrong perspective because of the slow speed of their healing process"
True
 

Regina

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The daily caloric needs apparently fall (sometimes significantly) when healthy metabolism is restored.

From members who have cleaned their liver + reduced pufa + healed their digestion, there is common theme of lower caloric needs day to day.

Ray suggests a pretty wide margin for fat up to 33% of calories.

Here's an interesting thread from a member who details the process of healing his metabolism using high-dose caffeine. I mention this because this is an extreme protocol for sure, but was apparently necessary for him to see such dramatic results in a short time. Many people here might just have the wrong perspective because of the slow speed of their healing process:

My Theory on Digestion
Thx! n=currently trying this
 

Optimus

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The daily caloric needs apparently fall (sometimes significantly) when healthy metabolism is restored.
From members who have cleaned their liver + reduced pufa + healed their digestion, there is common theme of lower caloric needs day to day.
@theLaw Ray has many times said that a healthier person has a more "wasteful metabolism", which would mean more calories. For example he talks about it here,
 

Constatine

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@theLaw Ray has many times said that a healthier person has a more "wasteful metabolism", which would mean more calories. For example he talks about it here,

Very much agree. I think it is healthy to eat as many calories as you can without getting fat. Uncoupled mitochondria "waste" energy but also prolong the lifespan and prevent disease.
 

ilpmusic

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There needs to be some nutritionists and drs that recommend the Ray Peat way of eating to set calorie limits, recommend supplements and monitor the individual progress so one does not run into new health problems or gain more weight. The problem is many (including myself) are doing this way of eating with "do it yourself" mentality without having specialists monitoring our health.
What drs and nutritionists are recommended? the only one I found is Cheryl Frost Figure PRO & Coach
 

Milena

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Very much agree. I think it is healthy to eat as many calories as you can without getting fat. Uncoupled mitochondria "waste" energy but also prolong the lifespan and prevent disease.
Also tends to provide a surplus of nutrients.
 
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Ron J

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Has Ray Peat or anyone knowledgeable discussed the caloric needs?
 

lampofred

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He has said 150g carbs is probably enough and that 300g-400g is for people who are very active. But he also has said calorie restriction isn't good for you and that he averaged 4000-5000 calories a day in his 20s (8000 before he took thyroid). So not really sure what his view are in terms of how many calories are necessary. I do remember an interview where he said 2500 for a young woman.
.
 

Cirion

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As much as is required to restore metabolism/temps/pulses/co2/etc. You must figure this out for yourself honestly. It's too individualistic. I personally think the calorie needs (carbs, mostly) are higher if you are hypo, but whatever calories gets you to the optimal temp/pulses (98.6F 85 bpm) while also not gaining or even losing weight is best IMO. A difficult task to be sure (accomplishing all 3 simultaneously) but worth it if you can figure out the diet that accomplishes it for you.
 
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Ron J

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@lampofred
@Cirion
I may have to up calories and monitor weight when the time comes. There doesn't seem to be much information about caloric needs. X amount for a young woman/man doesn't say much because not everyone has the same height, weight or frame size.
 

tankasnowgod

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Has Ray Peat or anyone knowledgeable discussed the caloric needs?

Caloric needs for what? A fly? An elephant? A sedentary 110 pound secretary? A 250 pound Longshorman?

There have been a few formulas that have estimated it, such as Harris Benedict, and Katch McArdle. You can look up the formulas and online calculators if you like.

For the most part, "guidelines" tend to issued by Satanic unconstitutional government organizations like the USDA, and also Satanic pseudo government organizations like the WHO.
 

CLASH

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* calories: katch mccardle formula for caloric needs with activity multipliers from what I understand is the most accepted formula currently

*protein: TLDR .6-.8g/lb bodybuilders know whats good here, they’ve been obsessed with figuring this out. The numbers line up with peats estimates, the jaminets estimates, danny roddys recommendations and @haidut ‘s recommendations The myth of 1 g/lb: Optimal protein intake for bodybuilders




*carbs/ fat: TLDR seems like 25-40% fat is ideal, with a concurrent 40-55% carbs

Fats and Testosterone: Dietary Fat, PUFA, & Androgens

Carbohydrates and Testosterone: Non-Essential but Still Important

These articles pretty much covered the few studies out there, atleast that I have seen looking at carbs and fat intake in relation to hormones in humans.

As a side note this video discusses fat intakes with comparative physiology, take it with a grain of salt but I think its helpful.

 

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