Simple Copper Complexes Are A Powerful Alternative To Antibiotics

[yerrag]

Thanks. It seems that with increasing antibiotic resistance around the world modern medicine is quickly re-"discovering" ancient remedies which up until very recently were dismissed as "folk medicine".

I should take silver seriously as well, and consider it together with copper

This reminded me I need to get some more copper for my goats...

Goats need a lot of copper, so much that if you house sheep with them and the sheep use the goat minerals they can get copper toxicity. When goats become deficient in copper their hair loses its colour.

Based off this post, I am wondering if copper is somehow integral to their immune system.

Does eating goat meat confer on the benefit of eating copper as in eating shrimps?

 

[haidut]

Interesting post!

Copper complexes have been found to be more therapeutic (and sometimes safer) than copper salts for infections and inflammatory diseases in some cases.

Examples of copper complexes: copper nicotinate, copper glycinate, copper cystinate, copper acetylsalicylate (also called copper aspirinate) and copper salicylate.

Copper Complexes as the Active Metabolites of Antiinflammatory Agents (John R. J. Sorenson)

Copper chelates as possible active forms of the antiarthritic agents (John R. J. Sorenson)

Copper complexes of non-steroidal antiinflammatory agents: Analgesic activity and possible opioid receptor activation

Potential Application of Copper Aspirinate in Preventing and Treating Thromboembolic Diseases

Copper complexes of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs: an opportunity yet to be realized

Synthesis and Biological Evaluation of Tetrakis(acetylsalicylato)-u-dicopper(II)

Note that some researchers think that chronic exposure to copper salts (via tap water and copper supplements) may contribute to pathologies such as Alzheimer's Disease because non-protein bound forms (in part) bypass liver processing and cause transiently-high blood levels; see for example: The risks of copper toxicity contributing to cognitive decline in the aging population and to Alzheimer's disease.

As far as I am aware, studies have yet to prove this hypothesis, see for example: Intake of copper has no effect on cognition in patients with mild Alzheimer’s disease: a pilot phase 2 clinical trial

The study above actually did look at some of these copper complexes (sulfate, glycinate, chloride, etc) and they had much weaker bactericidal and fungicidal activity. It was the combination of copper with things like benzoate and acetate that really made them lethal. I think the copper nicotinate and salicylate have a lot of promise and can probably match the acetate salt in effectiveness but this study did not look at them.

 

[haidut]

I should take silver seriously as well, and consider it together with copper

They did, the study mentions silver and gold as copper alternatives, and how a Persian king refused to drink water unless it was stored in silver containers. I thin they went with copper simply due to its low cost.

 

[yerrag]

They did, the study mentions silver and gold as copper alternatives, and how a Persian king refused to drink water unless it was stored in silver containers. I thin they went with copper simply due to its low cost.

Colloidal silver such as Mesosilver has been mentioned in past threads, but I admit to not taking it seriously. I'm giving it more thought now. I wonder how copper acetate would compare to MesoSilver. I hope it would be more effective. A month's supply of Mesosilver (500 ml at 1 tbsp/day) costs $30. Copper acetate would not only be effective, but cost-effective just as well.

 

[managing]

The study above actually did look at some of these copper complexes (sulfate, glycinate, chloride, etc) and they had much weaker bactericidal and fungicidal activity. It was the combination of copper with things like benzoate and acetate that really made them lethal. I think the copper nicotinate and salicylate have a lot of promise and can probably match the acetate salt in effectiveness but this study did not look at them.

the copper complexes seem to work by virtue of enabling amine-digesting microbes in the gut. I believe it is a cofactor in an amine oxidizing enzyme. This obviously can be quite good. But is quite different from the action you're seeking.

 

[ecstatichamster]

The protein, metallothionein, is rich in sulfhydryl groups,
which bind heavy metals. It is assumed that this protein helps
to detoxify and eliminate the toxic metals. This protein is in-
duced by exposure to either a heavy metal or cortisol. A larg-
er amount is produced in response to the combination of
heavy metals and cortisol, than by either alone. Since copper,
like the toxic metals cadmium, lead, mercury, and silver,
reacts strongly with sulfhydryl groups, the body is likely to
lose some copper when it is subjected to heavy metals or cor-
tisol. I think this chronic loss of copper accounts for the ob-
vious features of aging, such as loss of elasticity of the skin,
lungs, and blood vessels, the depigmentation (demelanization)
of skin, hair, and (in Parkinson's disease) substantia nigra, and
for the decrease in respiratory capacity. The replacement of
the copper by iron (and the loss of the copper-enzymes which
protect against iron-catalyzed free radicals) probably accounts
for the increased formation of lipofuscin during aging. When
copper-dependent mitochondrial respiration fails, lipofuscin
has the ability to sustain energy production through glycolysis
(by keeping the coenzyme NAD, nicotinamide adenine dinu-
cleotide, relatively oxidized), so it is possible that lipofuscin is
a primitive sort of defense against stress.

In animals, copper supplementation can restore natural col-
or to white hair, and in one experiment, it increased longevity.
At present, there isn't enough knowledge about the safety of
different ways of administering supplemental copper. It can
be toxic, and it oxidizes other nutrients. Besides choosing
foods high in copper and low in iron and other heavy metals,
other dietary choices which support thyroid limction will tend
to promote the retention of copper. Other dietary practices
can minimize our production of cortisol (e.g., combining fruits
and proteins, since protein foods lower blood sugar




----->Ray is not a fan of silver consumption.

 

[Luann]

Yay, it arrived today!!

 

[Luann]

It's just chelate, not mixed with any of the stuff talked about above.
After starting it I have odd, quick stomach pains and tonsil stones. Is this die off of some kind?

 

[TeslaFan]

It's just chelate, not mixed with any of the stuff talked about above.
After starting it I have odd, quick stomach pains and tonsil stones. Is this die off of some kind?

Did you take it on an empty stomach?

 

[Luann]

No, people said that would feel bad.

 

[Ideonaut]

The anti-bacterial effects of some metals have been known for millenia. Silver, Gold, copper and even nickel have been used by many ancient civilizations to sterilize water or even disinfect wounds. Of these metals, copper has been getting some renewed attention lately due to its ability to eradicate strains such as MRSA in hospitals even when used at very low concentrations.
This new study found that combining a metal such as copper, sodium, nickel or silver with an organic acid like acetate or benzoate dramatically increases the antibacterial effects of the combination and is able to quickly kill most bacteria, with very few (if any) side effects to healthy cells. As far as I can see copper acetate and copper benzoate were the most effective combinations and were effective in concentrations as little as 1uM, which is achievable with a dose of 3mg-4mg copper acetate or copper benzoate, and those doses are physiological. Now, copper acetate and copper benzoate are hydrolyzed in the stomach when ingested, so when taken orally they may help mostly for things like H. pylori. However, when applied topically they may stay in systemic circulation long enough to have a pronounced systemic antibacterial and anti-viral effect. So, dissolving them in DMSO/ethanol solution and applying to the skin may achieve the equivalent of a very hefty dose of antibiotics like ampicillin or even tetracycline.

The highly synergistic, broad spectrum, antibacterial activity of organic acids and transition metals : Scientific Reports
A Possible Alternative to Antibiotics : ATS

"...Numerous alternatives to antibiotics are already being tested by researchers around the world. Two of these are the use of metals such as silver, zinc, and copper (which were used in ancient Egypt and Greece for treating infection and purifying water sources), and the use of organic acids such as food acid (haidut: acetate, benzoate) that is used as a preservative in the food industry.
In their research, Lewinson and his team combined organic acids and metals at a low concentration, and found that the combination is extremely effective in eradicating pathogenic bacteria such as cholera, salmonella, and pseudomonas, as well as eliminating bacteria that attack agricultural crops such as tomatoes, melons, and apples.
“Combining these two types of substances is far more effective than using each one separately,” said Lewinson. “Called ‘synergistic inhibition’, this combination enables the use of extremely low concentrations of metals and food acids for preserving food and spraying crops.” He added that lowering the concentration of the substances has significant positive implications for the environment and human health."

Making copper acetate: I'm just going to use an electrical wire. http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Copper-Ac
etate

 

[marikay]

I would be very very interested in purchasing this if it were to become an @haidut product.

 

[haidut]

I would be very very interested in purchasing this if it were to become an @haidut product.

Noted, will do what I can.

 

[yerrag]

Making copper acetate: I'm just going to use an electrical wire. http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Copper-Ac
etate

Thanks for the link. I started making one today using the first method.

Got 250 ml each of 3% hydrogen peroxide and coconut vinegar (I assume it's 5% acetic acid) and 12.5 g of copper from stranded copper electrical wire. Heated the mixture till near boiling and poured it into a glass vessel. Added the 12.5 g of copper. The 5% acetic acid in 250ml amount to around 12.5 grams. Since the a mole of acetic acid and copper are about the same (60g), I needed about 12.5 g of copper. If all the copper is used up, the solution I get will be a 7.5% copper acetate solution roughly. Will weigh the unreacted copper later, to see what strength I'm actually left with in solution.

 

[yerrag]

I strained off the remaining copper from the solution, dried it, and weighed it. Weighs 11.75 g, which means the copper that got converted to copper acetate weighs 1.75g.

The 1.75g of copper is equivalent to 5 grams of copper acetate ( 1.75g x molecular weight of copper acetate at 181g/m.w. of copper at 64.5).

The solution is 500ml or 500grams.

Which leaves me with 5/500 = 1% copper acetate solution.

Now, how do I dose with this, anyone?

 

[managing]

I strained off the remaining copper from the solution, dried it, and weighed it. Weighs 11.75 g, which means the copper that got converted to copper acetate weighs 1.75g.

The 1.75g of copper is equivalent to 5 grams of copper acetate ( 1.75g x molecular weight of copper acetate at 181g/m.w. of copper at 64.5).

The solution is 500ml or 500grams.

Which leaves me with 5/500 = 1% copper acetate solution.

Now, how do I dose with this, anyone?

I don't know, but I am sure @haidut will have some ideas. I am just chiming in to say thanks for sharing. Looking forward to hearing more.

 

[haidut]

I don't know, but I am sure @haidut will have some ideas. I am just chiming in to say thanks for sharing. Looking forward to hearing more.

Ideas on what - how to use a copper supplement??

 

[lvysaur]

Wool of sheep deficient in copper will be inferior, wirery, loss of pigment, anemia, sway backs in lambs and staggers. During wet season, there will be infestation of worms if not addressed quickly and will result in death.

What exactly do you mean by sway backs? Do you have experience raising them?

 

[managing]

Ideas on what - how to use a copper supplement??

yeah, dosing per @yerrag post above.

 

[yerrag]

@managing I had to go back to the first post so I think the answer would be 3-4mg:

The anti-bacterial effects of some metals have been known for millenia. Silver, Gold, copper and even nickel have been used by many ancient civilizations to sterilize water or even disinfect wounds. Of these metals, copper has been getting some renewed attention lately due to its ability to eradicate strains such as MRSA in hospitals even when used at very low concentrations.
This new study found that combining a metal such as copper, sodium, nickel or silver with an organic acid like acetate or benzoate dramatically increases the antibacterial effects of the combination and is able to quickly kill most bacteria, with very few (if any) side effects to healthy cells. As far as I can see copper acetate and copper benzoate were the most effective combinations and were effective in concentrations as little as 1uM, which is achievable with a dose of 3mg-4mg copper acetate or copper benzoate, and those doses are physiological. Now, copper acetate and copper benzoate are hydrolyzed in the stomach when ingested, so when taken orally they may help mostly for things like H. pylori. However, when applied topically they may stay in systemic circulation long enough to have a pronounced systemic antibacterial and anti-viral effect. So, dissolving them in DMSO/ethanol solution and applying to the skin may achieve the equivalent of a very hefty dose of antibiotics like ampicillin or even tetracycline.

@haidut I'm guessing the dosing refers to elemental copper. If so, the solution I made would have 3.5 mg Cu/ml. At 20 medicine dropper drops/ml, and 2 doses a day, a dose would make out to be about 10 drops. Is it best to take it in-between meals, like say 10 am and 3pm? I'll probably mix it in juice. It's not tasty and leaves an aftertaste.

I'm excited to find out if this will help out with my mom's recurrence of UTI!