Should I Consider Myself Unhealthy If I Do Best Without Grains Or Dairy?

[Peatogenic]

I can tolerate most plant starches fine, and have been working with nutrition for years. I thought I was doing well eating bread and dairy occasionally....but I recently cut both and I noticed a persistent skin condition I've had for four years quickly go away, or about 80%. I've isolated all the variables. Ate pizza yesterday, it came back. Ate pie a week ago, came back.

I don't want to have to be so precise, as it makes me feel like I'm not healing.

 

[Sugar Bun]

What has lead you to believe that these 2 foods are necessary for health?

 

[charlie]

I thought I was doing well eating bread and dairy occasionally....but I recently cut both and I noticed a persistent skin condition I've had for four years quickly go away, or about 80%.

Imagine that!

 

[Peatogenic]

Imagine that!

Well it wasn't obvious...because I had eaten all kinds of stuff for years with no skin issues.

 

[Cirion]

Some will disagree with me, but I don't think things like starches (at least certain kinds anyway), PUFA's etc are ever good for consumption.

The argument some may make is you aren't healed until you can eat those "bad" foods without any detrimental effect, but I don't think I agree with that (At least while simultaneously living in stressful modern life). After all, its the bad foods that got you unhealthy in the first place... (for most of us anyway).

I would considered myself "healed" as long as I can function on a high level every day, even if it means being a little orthorexic, and at least being able to bounce back quickly after a single cheat here and there.

There was a user that used to post here, zachs, that considers himself healed though and now CAN eat just about whatever he wants, so maybe I'm wrong, but most people have to eat Peaty for life it seems...

TL;DR I think modern life and PUFA/starches etc just do not mix. Maybe if we all left our stressful environment/jobs and lived somewhere ultra low stress, that diet wouldn't matter as much. I speak for myself in saying I optimize my diet to offset some environment stressors that are difficult to change currently.

 

[Peatogenic]

Some will disagree with me, but I don't think things like starches (at least certain kinds anyway), PUFA's etc are ever good for consumption.

The argument some may make is you aren't healed until you can eat those "bad" foods without any detrimental effect, but I don't think I agree with that (At least while simultaneously living in stressful modern life). After all, its the bad foods that got you unhealthy in the first place... (for most of us anyway).

I would considered myself "healed" as long as I can function on a high level every day, even if it means being a little orthorexic, and at least being able to bounce back quickly after a single cheat here and there.

There was a user that used to post here, zachs, that considers himself healed though and now CAN eat just about whatever he wants, so maybe I'm wrong, but most people have to eat Peaty for life it seems...

Yeah, that's the debate. I function very well now, it's just that realization of the skin issue. I don't even really feel depressed eating "bad" foods, either, anymore. But it's a different feeling. Pboy has written on those feeling differences a lot. Thankfully I digest all the root vegetables, potatoes, etc. really well. They taste good, and eating only fruit as a carb would be very expensive.

 

[charlie]

Well it wasn't obvious...because I had eaten all kinds of stuff for years with no skin issues.

Wasnt a knock on you. Was about so many revelations lately about the foods we eat.

 

[Waremu]

In my opinion, grains: not so much; it is complicated, and milk: no, with few exceptions.

Grains will always have a endotoxin risk and serotonin risk so I wouldn't say someone is necessarily in bad health if they don't handle grains for that reason, but with milk, with few exceptions, I think it is usually the person and not the milk.

I was heavily lactose intolerant and would get rashes when I consumed dairy casien. After going fairy free Peat and cleaning my gut up, and cutting starches except white rice and well cooked boiled potatoes out, my gut began to improve. By that time I was well into Peating for a couple years and then decided to use more natural anti-biotics and more carrot salads and activated charcoal, and decided to cut out potatoes and rice and all starches in general. I started out with small amounts of raw goat milk yogurt and moved to raw goat milk. By the 3 yr into Peating I was having some raw A-2 cows milk and even began trying store bought organic skim milk again. I do notice a slight difference between A-1 and A2, but the real problem was my gut. I decided to cut out starches, go low on PUFA which improved my gut barrier, and use natural anti-biotics and carrots to maintain and clean my gut of bad bacteria. Some studies posted to this forum suggest certain gut bacteria interferes with milk digestion as well as thyroid hormone. So that and hearing Danny Roddy share his experience of handling diary better after cleaning his gut out inspired me to go down that road and it worked well for me. This is my experience and others here have similar experiences, but if there was anyone who would win an award for the most milk intolerant, it would probably be me. And if I was able to handle milk again, I am of the opinion others can too and that it is likely them and not the milk. If someone cannot handle milk, I'd tell the to give what I did a try (cut out starches and eat fruit/juice and honey/sugar for carbs, start eating carrot salads 1-2 per day, and after a month or a few months after getting more regulated on that, use activated charcoal in big servings 2-3x per week, and maybe some generation 1 Peat recommended anti-biotics, if you need something more potent, and keep PUFA low and have good nutrition to support gut barrier).

My diet is mostly skimmed raw milk and gelatin and fruit with some liver or the occasional oyster. May not be for everyone but I feel best on this and have no digestion issues whatsoever. I feel better than when I was in my teens and that says a lot. I am also very low PUFA, which I think is a big part of my success, but it is strict so I am not recommending people have to go as low on PUFA as I do, but a 'EFA deficiency' type of diet seems to be the only thing that has got my temp and pulse up and improved my thyroid and metabolism.

I think low thyroid, gut bacteria, and compromised gut barrier caused by stress hormones and PUFA are some of the main reasons why most cannot handle milk. But there are exceptions, and some are genetic, so I don't count that out either. Thats my 2 cents.

 

[Peatogenic]

In my opinion, grains: not so much; it is complicated, and milk: no, with few exceptions.

Grains will always have a endotoxin risk and serotonin risk so I wouldn't say someone is necessarily in bad health if they don't handle grains for that reason, but with milk, with few exceptions, I think it is usually the person and not the milk.

I was heavily lactose intolerant and would get rashes when I consumed dairy casien. After going fairy free Peat and cleaning my gut up, and cutting starches except white rice and well cooked boiled potatoes out, my gut began to improve. By that time I was well into Peating for a couple years and then decided to use more natural anti-biotics and more carrot salads and activated charcoal, and decided to cut out potatoes and rice and all starches in general. I started out with small amounts of raw goat milk yogurt and moved to raw goat milk. By the 3 yr into Peating I was having some raw A-2 cows milk and even began trying store bought organic skim milk again. I do notice a slight difference between A-1 and A2, but the real problem was my gut. I decided to cut out starches, go low on PUFA which improved my gut barrier, and use natural anti-biotics and carrots to maintain and clean my gut of bad bacteria. Some studies posted to this forum suggest certain gut bacteria interferes with milk digestion as well as thyroid hormone. So that and hearing Danny Roddy share his experience of handling diary better after cleaning his gut out inspired me to go down that road and it worked well for me. This is my experience and others here have similar experiences, but if there was anyone who would win an award for the most milk intolerant, it would probably be me. And if I was able to handle milk again, I am of the opinion others can too and that it is likely them and not the milk. If someone cannot handle milk, I'd tell the to give what I did a try (cut out starches and eat fruit/juice and honey/sugar for carbs, start eating carrot salads 1-2 per day, and after a month or a few months after getting more regulated on that, use activated charcoal in big servings 2-3x per week, and maybe some generation 1 Peat recommended anti-biotics, if you need something more potent, and keep PUFA low and have good nutrition to support gut barrier).

My diet is mostly skimmed raw milk and gelatin and fruit with some liver or the occasional oyster. May not be for everyone but I feel best on this and have no digestion issues whatsoever. I feel better than when I was in my teens and that says a lot. I am also very low PUFA, which I think is a big part of my success, but it is strict so I am not recommending people have to go as low on PUFA as I do, but a 'EFA deficiency' type of diet seems to be the only thing that has got my temp and pulse up and improved my thyroid and metabolism.

I think low thyroid, gut bacteria, and compromised gut barrier caused by stress hormones and PUFA are some of the main reasons why most cannot handle milk. But there are exceptions, and some are genetic, so I don't count that out either. Thats my 2 cents.

Thanks, I'm doing goat milk at present in my coffee and butter. I was surprised to see how eating a heavy grain meal made my skin turn pink..things I had previously associated with good metabolism, etc. Beets, parsnips, and red potatoes seem to be better options for starches. I used to be able to eat a loaf of bread if I wanted and feel fine, but I've never been able to eat rice without feeling tired and depressed.

 

[tankasnowgod]

I can tolerate most plant starches fine, and have been working with nutrition for years. I thought I was doing well eating bread and dairy occasionally....but I recently cut both and I noticed a persistent skin condition I've had for four years quickly go away, or about 80%. I've isolated all the variables. Ate pizza yesterday, it came back. Ate pie a week ago, came back.

I don't want to have to be so precise, as it makes me feel like I'm not healing.

Pizza and Pie..... well, might be grains and or dairy.... but, were either or both of those foods fortified with iron fillings?

 

[Peatogenic]

Pizza and Pie..... well, might be grains and or dairy.... but, were either or both of those foods fortified with iron fillings?

I don't know, but it was other foods too over past few weeks

 

[jacob]

I was surprised to see how eating a heavy grain meal made my skin turn pink..things I had previously associated with good metabolism, etc.

Do you consider the pink skin to be a good thing? Or is this a bad thing for you? I'm unsure what you're saying here since you mentioned you had a skin condition previously.

 

[Peatogenic]

Do you consider the pink skin to be a good thing? Or is this a bad thing for you? I'm unsure what you're saying here since you mentioned you had a skin condition previously.

For me, I wonder now if the pink skin is an inflammatory response (it's on face primarily) in combo with little red spots that show up underneath my skin. Similar to rosacea. Dairy and grain free, I don't flush after meals now, skin tone is even and more pale, and the red spots have faded considerably to almost non-existent. It takes about two days to get back to normal. I've never eaten a ton of grain or dairy in past four years, just little bits a day.

 

[Sativa]

. I thought I was doing well eating bread and dairy occasionally

Are we talking Sourdough / Sprouted or Standard grain bread?
Non organic grains can containg glyphosate residues.
PUFA's and Lectins in grains ofc have their own influences on digestion.

Was it cows or goats dairy products?

[-Aside-]
I currently eat goats cheese (usually warmed with food and pro-digestive spices) and oat biscuits as a snack...temporarily (the high P content is on my mind re tooth ache). Also egg yolks occasionally. Main carb is arborio rice/rice noodles.

 

[Peatogenic]

Are we talking Sourdough / Sprouted or Standard grain bread?
Non organic grains can containg glyphosate residues.
PUFA's and Lectins in grains ofc have their own influences on digestion.

Was it cows or goats dairy products?

Cheap grains/cow dairy. I do goat milk now in my coffee and no issues I can tell. I'm even used to the barnyard taste now.

 

[Sativa]

Cheap grains

Whats your grain of choice?
I gather that wheat is the main one that's 'asking for trouble'!

My Oat choice is also cheap. I have a pretty healthy metabolism/liver.

 

[Peatogenic]

Whats your grain of choice?
I gather that wheat is the main one that's 'asking for trouble'!

Yeah, I'll eat wheat products occasionally...like just a tad little bit a day or every couple days. That's why it wasn't obvious to me. I never eat pasta or rice or big bread meals. That little bit stays in your system.

 

[Sativa]

My part-asian/celtic genetics ensures my resilience (lol)

But seriously, I strategically apply Peat's logical approach alongside intuitive traditional chinese medicine, so not all of Peats perceived limitations/conditions apply in my case.

But deffo no PUFA, estrogens etc.

 

[DavidGardner]

I could be totally wrong, but I sometimes wonder whether ethnicity influences food tolerances. I am of Italian/Southern European descent (yeah, my username is an alias) on my father’s side and have seemingly zero issues with bread or cheese. I sometimes wonder if I should avoid these foods because the PUFA does add up more than rice and coconut oil, but then I think— well, it was good enough for my ancestors for thousands of years.... and my 93 year old grandmother.

I will probably start looking for sources of wheat without added iron, though after reading other users’ posts about reduced iron. @tankasnowgod

I think some people have mild autoimmune reactions to wheat and/or dairy, hence commonly cited skin issues. I think other people just have difficulty digesting casein or gluten, causing gut issues. And as we know gut issues tend to cause problems elsewhere.

 

[Sativa]

I think some people have mild autoimmune reactions to wheat and/or dairy, hence commonly cited skin issues. I think other people just have difficulty digesting casein or gluten, causing gut issues. And as we know gut issues tend to cause problems elsewhere.

I gather that the several morphine-like substances (from digested wheat gluten) called gluten exorphins might be implicated in indirect endotoxin TLR4 receptor activation, so basically might in the long-term contribute to digestive/immune issues.

Also, from the study -

"These compounds have proven opioid effects and could mask the deleterious effects of gluten protein on gastrointestinal lining and function."

[source: The opioid effects of gluten exorphins: asymptomatic celiac disease]

Re cow's dairy -

In humans, digestion of bovine A1 beta-casein, but not the alternative A2 beta-casein, releases beta-casomorphin-7, which activates μ-opioid receptors expressed throughout the gastrointestinal tract and body. Studies in rodents show that milk containing A1 beta-casein significantly increases gastrointestinal transit time...

[source: Milk Intolerance, Beta-Casein and Lactose]

This is partly why I choose Goats dairy, and never bother with wheat in any form.
I am able to feel the opioid psychoactive effect from wheat and it is has real addictive potential! This is no surprise considering the nature of the Opioid system in the bodies overall dynamics and reward systems etc.
btw - I grew up on frosties(!) corn flakes, meat, wheat pasta/bread, cows/goats dairy.

-
As an aside, some interesting relevant contextual insight - this is from the wikipedia page on TLR4:

The response of TLR4 to opioid drugs is enantiomer-independent, so the "unnatural" forms of opioid drugs such as morphine, which lack affinity for opioid receptors, still produce the same activity at TLR4 as their "normal" forms.
...
Morphine causes inflammation by binding to the protein lymphocyte antigen 96, which, in turn, causes the protein to bind to Toll-like receptor 4 (TLR4)