Ready To Give Up

[oldfriend]

These threads seem to pop up occasionally on the forum. I think it's time for mine.

I was not the healthiest child. As an infant my parents took me off of dairy after recurrent ear infections and put me on soy. I drank milk in my grade school years but I was a latch key kid and ate a lot of fast food, and low-nutrient sugar meals. I had terrible allergies, had my adenoids removed, a deviated septum, varicocelectomy, varicocele embolization, and most of my tooth matter replaced with mercury fillings all before the age of 18. I was also molested by a family member and emotionally abandoned / neglected by the others.

After a few years of binge-drinking and cocktails of psychotropic medications in my early 20s I got sober, and tried to clean up my act. Soon after I was diagnosed with ulcerative proctitis, and was struggling with bad allergies, and low libido. I went to a naturopath who advised me to start a candida diet. Lots of whole grains, fat, chicken, green smoothies, and zero sugar. I tested allergic to eggs (off the charts), gluten, and was teetering on casein. I eventually crashed and started a fruitarian diet. Lost weight, spent many days in bed, no tolerance for cold weather, etc. Eventually I became ravenous and started eating any and everything. I would eat bananas, mangos, juice and dried fruit and more conventional meals at night. Still avoiding eggs and meat, but eventually added fish and sometimes splurged on cheese. My energy, allergies, and outlook were all improved. Not great, but improved so I stuck with it even though I still had somewhat painful bowel movements and an inconsistent libido. My resiliency and stamina were always compromised however.

A couple of years later I was going to school full time and working, so I slowly slipped back into SAD and fast food. It was not long before the stress of my diet and lifestyle took a toll on me. It was during this time that I started eating paleo and got back on SSRIs. Moreover, I moved in with family and suffered emotional distress due to PTSD/BPD issues. I did this for a couple of years but had a very bad episode when I decided to stop taking SSRIs, training on my bicycle, taking L-citrulline and Macuna Pruriens to help with my libido. I became so constipated that not even saline enemas could help. I started experiencing pain in my chest and extreme fatigue, urinating nearly every hour, stress hormones skyrocketing etc.

This was the start of a very bad chapter akin to the one that got me dieting in the first place. I went to the ER and had an abnormal EKG. I had some labs and my estradiol was well above the reference range, androgens and T at the low end, D below the reference range. I tried a low FODMAP diet, SCD, and then found Matt Stone. That led me to Ray Peat. I got on Cyproheptadine and started sleeping again. I started gaining weight and this was a good thing I thought; I had been underweight for years. I started supplementing with pregnenolone, thyroid, fat solubles, antibiotics, b vitamins etc. I ate lots of meat, ice cream, milk, fruit, gelatin, liver. Some combinations made me sluggish and constipated so I mixed things up by dropping all dairy, droppping meat, dropping fiber, adding starch, vegetables, less sugar & more fruit etc.

Fast forward a year and a half, I'm 32, I gained 40 lbs and most of it is still here after stopping cypro. I have stretch marks all over my thighs, started smoking again, gums are receding, had two teeth extracted, need root canal or more extractions soon. I consistently wake up to high cortisol no matter what. Joints click and pop when I move. Numbness in hands and feet. Dull pains any my legs and feet. I've had only fleeting success with libido, and have crows feet now. This summer I've been pin-balling my diet in a frantic state of emergency. Modified SCD to Lactose-free Peat. I had a couple of good weeks on the latter, but I mostly attribute that to the temporary euphoria of stress hormones and a new love interest that I have to let go of now.

It seems like no matter what I eat, it creates new problems. High protein lead to low blood sugar, high ammonia, and constipation. High fiber / starch leads to serotonin, endotoxin, estrogen, and adrenaline. Milk to constipation and hypercalcemia. Acid fruits / sugar to receding gums, and erosion of enamel. Everything to inflammation that just won't subside and is ruining my life.

I try to stay positive, I've been going to therapy, going on walks, trying to breathe but a lot of the time my sinuses are inflamed or blocked by polyps.

I'm not digesting anything, my body is shutting down, and I don't know what to do for it anymore. I can't continue with Peat, but I don't know if there's anything left to try. Please help. If anybody can recommend a dietician or other practitioner in the northern or bay areas of California I'm willing to try anything. Doctors think I'm a hypochondriac and family wants me back on psych meds.

 

[thomas00]

Which supplements are you still taking, if any?

There's certainly a time for trying to address things with diet. There's also time to recognise the limits of that sort of thing.

Do you have prominent gut symptoms that are always there to some degree, regardless of what you eat? If you have inflammation in your colon then it seems like addressing that with gelatin etc should be a priority given how a bad gut can cause so many health issues.

I got receding gums after using a lot of progesterone. It seems it's easy to create an imbalance in the other direction if you go overboard on certain substances. Vitamin A helps a lot with the gums.

Switching to an organic brand of tobacco might help somewhat, until you can get stress down to a point where quitting altogether is easier. At least you won't be poisoning yourself with polonium.

 

[oldfriend]

Which supplements are you still taking, if any?

Do you have prominent gut symptoms that are always there to some degree, regardless of what you eat? If you have inflammation in your colon then it seems like addressing that with gelatin etc should be a priority given how a bad gut can cause so many health issues.

I got receding gums after using a lot of progesterone. It seems it's easy to create an imbalance in the other direction if you go overboard on certain substance. Vitamin A helps a lot with the gums.

Switching to an organic brand of tobacco might help somewhat, until you can get stress down to a point where quitting altogether is easier. At least you won't be poisoning yourself with polonium.

Most recently I was taking A,D,K, pregnenolone, magnoil topically. Energin mixed with milk or juice. Also Vitamin C, TUDCA, glycine, and sometimes Lysine. I'm only using magnoil the past couple days which is great but I worry about the DMSO. I also take LDN, which is the one thing I'm certain helps me.

Constipation and inflammation are always in effect. Slow transit time. The ulcers I get are not bad. When/if I notice blood it's usually due to hemorrhoids. Aspirin increases bleeding.

Progesterone doesn't work for me. It seems to increase cortisol in my case. Pregnenolone might have the same effect, but it's much less noticeable if it does. I'm sure that I'm not getting the support from nutrients needed to tolerate these kinds of supplements.

I usually smoke American Spirits. Been trying to quit for months but keep getting stuck in a cycle of stress and always go back to them.

 

[Jsaute21]

It is tough to give advice because everyone is a different organism but in my limited experience, Ray Peat is in a league of his own in terms of his fundamental beliefs. His "diet" isn't perfect because there is no such thing, but i would stick with his fundamentals, while making individual tweaks to conform to your own life. The fundamentals that i would stick to are eating nutrient dense, trying to limit stress, measuring pulse & temps in a non obsessive way, staying active but not over training, red light, etc. These methods have improved countless people's health. Milk, seafood, coffee, gelatin, occasional liver, cheese should be included in your diet. Thyroid is a femme fatale, but it can certainly help if you are adequately fueling yourself. Do not give up, and go back to the basics.

 

[thomas00]

Most recently I was taking A,D,K, pregnenolone, magnoil topically. Energin mixed with milk or juice. Also Vitamin C, TUDCA, glycine, and sometimes Lysine. I'm only using magnoil the past couple days which is great but I worry about the DMSO. I also take LDN, which is the one thing I'm certain helps me.

Constipation and inflammation are always in effect. Slow transit time. The ulcers I get are not bad. When/if I notice blood it's usually due to hemorrhoids. Aspirin increases bleeding.

Progesterone doesn't work for me. It seems to increase cortisol in my case. Pregnenolone might have the same effect, but it's much less noticeable if it does. I'm sure that I'm not getting the support from nutrients needed to tolerate these kinds of supplements.

I usually smoke American Spirits. Been trying to quit for months but keep getting stuck in a cycle of stress and always go back to them.

A way to instantly reverse whatever healing has happened with my receding gums is take progesterone or pregenenolone. I think you are right that you may not in the right place at the moment to support their use. Perhaps dropping it would be prudent, or at least taking a very small dose in the range of 5mg-50mg.

The LDN should probably stay if you think its helping. I know Ray suggests only using it for a few days a time but I've never noticed any negatives from it's long term use, apart from waning effectiveness. If DMSO is an issue then a switch to oral magnesium glycinate could be a good idea, if you can tolerate it. Have you experimented with niacinaminde? The rest of the supplements wouldn't be causing many problems i think, but theoretically they all could so nixing all of them could be an experiment.

I say focus on the gut for now. Bad gut issues can product hypothyroid type symptoms.It might be a good idea to swap out the glycine for the gelatine. I've always found gelatine far more effective. Have you tried Cascara? Have you ever trialled antibiotics? Have you had tests for H Pylori and a comprehensive stool analysis for pathogens just to be on the safe side?

I used to smoke Manitou tobacco before I quit (again!) a few months back. Definitely noticed a difference smoking that.

 

[danishispsychic]

I would give this a try- https://goforward.com/ ( they are in SF ) get bloods, scans , dna, all of it. xx

 

[oldfriend]

A way to instantly reverse whatever healing has happened with my receding gums is take progesterone or pregenenolone. I think you are right that you may not in the right place at the moment to support their use. Perhaps dropping it would be prudent, or at least taking a very small dose in the range of 5mg-50mg.

The LDN should probably stay if you think its helping. I know Ray suggests only using it for a few days a time but I've never noticed any negatives from it's long term use, apart from waning effectiveness. If DMSO is an issue then a switch to oral magnesium glycinate could be a good idea, if you can tolerate it. The rest of the supplements wouldn't be causing many problems i think, but theoretically they all could so nixing all of them could be an experiment.

It might be a good idea to swap out the glycine for the gelatine too. I've always found gelatine far more effective. I say focus on the gut for now. Bad gut issues can product hypothyroid type symptoms. Have you ever trialled antibiotics? Have you had tests for H Pylori and a comprehensive stool anaylsis for pathogens just to be on the safe side?

Sorry, I meant to say that gelatin is a no go for me. I'm not sure if it's the histamine, or glutamic acid, or low blood sugar symptoms I get. In general, I think protein is something I need to be very careful with, especially the forms that are digested quickly. I did 2 weeks of minocycline last year.

 

[thomas00]

Sorry, I meant to say that gelatin is a no go for me. I'm not sure if it's the histamine, or glutamic acid, or low blood sugar symptoms I get. In general, I think protein is something I need to be very careful with, especially the forms that are digested quickly. I did 2 weeks of minocycline last year.

I know Ray has said you can get an allergic response to concentrated sources of protein if you don't consume them with enough carbohydrate. I've certainly had unpleasant symptoms from using larger amounts of gelatin. Is your negative response to it dependent on how much you use? Do you get the same effects if you use collagen hydrolysate, if you've tried it?

Did the minocycline help?

 

[Peatful]

Hi @oldfriend

Josh Rubin at East West Healing in San Diego helped my friend quite a lot.
They do Skype or phone I believe.

Although, I think you can actually heal without them (@theLaw ); your gut issues are where I would start.... with blood sugar issues a close second.

Consider no supplements as a baseline (you can add back in later as needed); consider a macro diet of easy to digest nutrient dense foods of P/C/F of 30/40/30- this will balance your blood sugar- with small frequent meals. And absolutely no PUFA.
Your body wants to heal.

I’ve heard good things about Nathan Hatch’s book and Kate Deerings book as well.

I guess the main thing to reiterate is - don’t give up. Our bodies are always looking for health. You are insightful and open for change- which is a great place to start.

 

[oldfriend]

Hi @oldfriend

Josh Rubin at East West Healing in San Diego helped my friend quite a lot.
They do Skype or phone I believe.

Although, I think you can actually heal without them (@theLaw ); your gut issues are where I would start.... with blood sugar issues a close second.

Consider no supplements as a baseline (you can add back in later as needed); consider a macro diet of easy to digest nutrient dense foods of P/C/F of 30/40/30- this will balance your blood sugar- with small frequent meals. And absolutely no PUFA.
Your body wants to heal.

I’ve heard good things about Nathan Hatch’s book and Kate Deerings book as well.

I guess the main thing to reiterate is - don’t give up. Our bodies are always looking for health. You are insightful and open for change- which is a great place to start.

Thank you. I worked with Nathan for a couple of months earlier this year. I was looking for tailored dietary advice, and he insisted that he does not make those kinds of recommendations and instead gave only loose guidelines. I did read Kate Deerings book. Unfortunately I have not been able to figure out how to apply these concepts in a way that has made sustainable progress.

 

[oldfriend]

I know Ray has said you can get an allergic response to concentrated sources of protein if you don't consume them with enough carbohydrate. I've certainly had unpleasant symptoms from using larger amounts of gelatin. Is your negative response to it dependent on how much you use? Do you get the same effects if you use collagen hydrolysate, if you've tried it?

Did the minocycline help?

I'm not sure. I was taking about 3 tablespoons a day with cooked fruit and meat to help digestion. Hydrolosate did not help in the same way.
I made some gains with Minocycline, but they vanished after a few weeks.

What toothpaste / hygiene regimen do you use for your receding gums?

 

[thomas00]

You could try smaller amounts of gelatine. Maybe just a teaspoon. Doesn't sound like the glycine is helping much. I get weird allergic symptoms from using too much gelatine in one go.


If that doesn't work you could try cascara, another round of antibiotics, perhaps ditching all the other supplements to see what effect that has and adding them back in one at a time. I think the stool anaylsis and H Pylori tests could be something to consider if you are having symptoms consistent with any of those bugs. It really sounds like the gut is where it's at for moving your health forward. The raw carrots/bamboo shoots are important, if they cause you no issues.


Do you have recent labwork? Are you seeing a gastroenterologist? have you had a colonoscopy and endoscopy recently?

 

[thomas00]

What toothpaste / hygiene regimen do you use for your receding gums?

I use normal toothpaste and an electric toothbrush. I think dentists recommend a soft brush and be mindful of the gumline when brushing if you have receding gums.

I bought a waterpik a little while back. I don't use it as much as I ought to but it is really good.

 

[oldfriend]

Do you have recent labwork? Are you seeing a gastroenterologist? have you had a colonoscopy and endoscopy recently?

I'm in a legal battle with my insurance company to approve a visit to an endocrinologist. Apparently elevated estradiol for over a year doesn't qualify as 'abnormal' lab work. I find my GI doctor to be pretty useless. I got transferred to her after my previous doctor retired, and she wants to give me a sigmoidoscopy 6 months after I got a colonoscopy despite no complaints of bleeding or pain. Only wants to prescribe prednisone, 5-ASA or sulfa drugs. I had to get LDN from my psychiatrist.

 

[thomas00]

That's orthodox gastroenterologists for you. Did your colonoscopy show inflammation?

If you've gained a lot of weight on cypro, have you considered lisuride or metergoline for your mood?

 

[Herbie]

I would give up on the mainstream medical system, too stressful, unnecessarily annoying and complex on top of too much stress, I would go it alone and give yourself some space from the family pushing you into the system.

If doing it in solitude and having less stress from family and medical system putting pressure on you, you may find clarity to find solutions to your problems, only you can know your body. When highly stressed, I've found its best to simplify life which means in way of people, diet, etc.

I would not stop smoking at this point, I would smoke more and enjoy it.

 

[oldfriend]

I would give up on the mainstream medical system, too stressful, unnecessarily annoying and complex on top of too much stress, I would go it alone and give yourself some space from the family pushing you into the system.

If doing it in solitude and having less stress from family and medical system putting pressure on you, you may find clarity to find solutions to your problems, only you can know your body. When highly stressed, I've found its best to simplify life which means in way of people, diet, etc.

I did that. It backfired, and I've unwittingly forced myself into isolation. At this point I'm finding it difficult to trust my own judgement.
I've resorted to extreme measures to manage my condition (fruitarianism, paleo, etc.). My neurosis has led me astray, unmotivated and unwilling to change at times. Holding onto the promise that things will get worse before they get better, etc.

However unintuitive or anti-peat it is, I really feel like I need guidance and instruction.

 

[Waynish]

However unintuitive or anti-peat it is, I really feel like I need guidance and instruction.

It isn't anti-Peat at all to use guidance and instruction. That's what some silly people say, who have gotten guidance and instruction from Peat - haha!

It is important to have some people around in real life that you trust - they can help you gain valuable data points. Have you been to any local Chinese doctors, for example?

 

[oldfriend]

It isn't anti-Peat at all to use guidance and instruction. That's what some silly people say, who have gotten guidance and instruction from Peat - haha!

It is important to have some people around in real life that you trust - they can help you gain valuable data points. Have you been to any local Chinese doctors, for example?

Thanks for the suggestion. I was really hoping to get more from outside the box of Peat. I've learned a lot from Peat and the forums, but see that many of it's members don't adhere to Peat principles 100%. I feel comments like 'hang in there' are kind of missing the point of this thread.

 

[Waynish]

Thanks for the suggestion. I was really hoping to get more from outside the box of Peat. I've learned a lot from Peat and the forums, but see that many of it's members don't adhere to Peat principles 100%. I feel comments like 'hang in there' are kind of missing the point of this thread.

Who said, "hang in there," besides you? :)
Maybe this expectation of a certain answer or a certain kind of answer is what's holding you back. Be open with yourself: do you want a magic pill for a deeper problem, to any degree?