Raising Serum Androgens Using DHEA, Pregnenolone, And Vitamin K

[amethyst]

Not sure how well it would absorb if it's just the powder. Ideally, it should be in some sort of carrier that enhances absorption and at least makes it a liquid solution. Tocopherols/oil, ethanol, DMSO, PG, PEG, etc are all options for solvents. Given that DHEA-S is the only steroid correlated with sexual desire in women then probably anybody who has low libido and/confirmed low DHEA-S could benefit. Unless DHEA-S are very low most people probably do not need more than 5mg - 10mg daily.

Would coconut oil be a good carrier?

 

[haidut]

Would coconut oil be a good carrier?

Yes, if you can dissolve the DHEA fully. Several women on the forum such as @Blossom mentioned they tried and it did not work very well. So, tocopherol may be better option and the extra oil would be to make it less viscous/sticky so it does not irritate the mucosa.

 

[amethyst]

Yes, if you can dissolve the DHEA fully. Several women on the forum such as @Blossom mentioned they tried and it did not work very well. So, tocopherol may be better option and the extra oil would be to make it less viscous/sticky so it does not irritate the mucosa.

Thanks!

 

[Drareg]

"The serum concentration of these various conjugated androgen metabolites decreased by 40.8% to 72.8% between the 20- to 30-yr-old and 70- to 80-yr-old age groups in men and women, respectively, thus suggesting a parallel decrease in the total androgen pool with age."

Does anybody have a link to more info on the 20-30 year old decrease in androgens, over half the androgen metabolites dissapear at such a young age?

 

[haidut]

"The serum concentration of these various conjugated androgen metabolites decreased by 40.8% to 72.8% between the 20- to 30-yr-old and 70- to 80-yr-old age groups in men and women, respectively, thus suggesting a parallel decrease in the total androgen pool with age."

Does anybody have a link to more info on the 20-30 year old decrease in androgens, over half the androgen metabolites dissapear at such a young age?

After the age of 30 most people really get into a catabolic state driven by low thyroid and high adrenal (cortisol, adrenaline) function. Adrenals are opposite to gonads in function. Look at most people over 30 when wearing a bathing suit. The effects of cortisol are hard to miss in both men (big gut) and women (thin limbs and bony appearance with obvious muscle loss). It is a well known process and endocrinologists know about it but it is ascribed as a normal feature of aging. So, keeping adrenal function low should allow gonads and thyroid some legroom to work better.

 

[Regina]

After the age of 30 most people really get into a catabolic state driven by low thyroid and high adrenal (cortisol, adrenaline) function. Adrenals are opposite to gonads in function. Look at most people over 30 when wearing a bathing suit. The effects of cortisol are hard to miss in both men (big gut) and women (thin limbs and bony appearance with obvious muscle loss). It is a well known process and endocrinologists know about it but it is ascribed as a normal feature of aging. So, keeping adrenal function low should allow gonads and thyroid some legroom to work better.

"After the age of 30 most people really get into a catabolic state driven by low thyroid and high adrenal (cortisol, adrenaline) function."
Guilty. That pretty much describes me until I found you guys.

 

[Drareg]

After the age of 30 most people really get into a catabolic state driven by low thyroid and high adrenal (cortisol, adrenaline) function. Adrenals are opposite to gonads in function. Look at most people over 30 when wearing a bathing suit. The effects of cortisol are hard to miss in both men (big gut) and women (thin limbs and bony appearance with obvious muscle loss). It is a well known process and endocrinologists know about it but it is ascribed as a normal feature of aging. So, keeping adrenal function low should allow gonads and thyroid some legroom to work better.

What signals the adaptive hormones to drop at this point is the question and why do the the other hormones continue to rise? The environment I'm guessing,perhaps the years of building fat stores in certain areas.

I would guess most people who are in "great shape"at thirty have exercised and starved themselves to the bone looking ripped,those who don't use anabolic steroids that is.

 

[haidut]

What signals the adaptive hormones to drop at this point is the question and why do the the other hormones continue to rise? The environment I'm guessing,perhaps the years of building fat stores in certain areas.

I would guess most people who are in "great shape"at thirty have exercised and starved themselves to the bone looking ripped,those who don't use anabolic steroids that is.

Prolonged overproduction of cortisol atrophies the adrenal layer that produces pregnenolone and progesterone and DHEA, while leaving the cortisol layer intact. In addition, cortisol inhibits the side cleavage enzyme so eventually pregnenolone production in the brain and other crucial organs will also drop. Cortisol also activate aromatase and both cortisol and estrogen inhibit Leydig cell function, so gonads cannot synthesize enough T/DHT to oppose the glucocorticoids and estrogen. It is well known that with age the ability to produce cortisol does NOT decline and the "normal" cortisol range on blood tests is pretty much the same for age range 12-100. The good news is that the adrenal layer producing beneficial steroids can regenerate within 2-3 days if cortisol is lowered and thyroid is given a chance to take over. Leydig cells were also shown to NOT degenerate with age, they are simply suppressed and resume production as soon as pregnenolone and DHEA are available as precursors and NAD as cofactor. See this thread for more info.
Pregnenolone, Progesterone And DHEA Drop, Cortisol Rises In Aging
Cortisol rises since the progessive accmulation of PUFA leads to both chronic low grade inflammation and insulin resistance. Getting rid of all that bad fat can have dramatic effects on steroid synthesis even in very old people. There was a case study published recently showing after liposuction and bariatric surgery the DHEA and progesterone levels of a woman in her late 60s returned to teen levels. I would not advise everybody to go do that but it does illustrate the point well.
And yes, most of these lean and "healthy" looking people either are in very catabolic state and pass as healthy simply due to being thin, or are using something they do not wan the public to know. Most actors and celebrities are on some form of steroid therapy. Even "natural looking" types like Hugh Jackman. I am not even mentioning the likes of the Rock and Arnold - they never denied taking steroids when asked.

 

[Drareg]

Prolonged overproduction of cortisol atrophies the adrenal layer that produces pregnenolone and progesterone and DHEA, while leaving the cortisol layer intact. In addition, cortisol inhibits the side cleavage enzyme so eventually pregnenolone production in the brain and other crucial organs will also drop. Cortisol also activate aromatase and both cortisol and estrogen inhibit Leydig cell function, so gonads cannot synthesize enough T/DHT to oppose the glucocorticoids and estrogen. It is well known that with age the ability to produce cortisol does NOT decline and the "normal" cortisol range on blood tests is pretty much the same for age range 12-100. The good news is that the adrenal layer producing beneficial steroids can regenerate within 2-3 days if cortisol is lowered and thyroid is given a chance to take over. Leydig cells were also shown to NOT degenerate with age, they are simply suppressed and resume production as soon as pregnenolone and DHEA are available as precursors and NAD as cofactor.
Cortisol rises since the progessive accmulation of PUFA leads to both chronic low grade inflammation and insulin resistance. Getting rid of all that bad fat can have dramatic effects on steroid synthesis even in very old people. There was a case study published recently showing after liposuction and bariatric surgery the DHEA and progesterone levels of a woman in her late 60s returned to teen levels. I would not advise everybody to go do that but it does illustrate the point well.
And yes, most of these lean and "healthy" looking people either are in very catabolic state and pass as healthy simply due to being thin, or are using something they do not wan the public to know. Most actors and celebrities are on some form of steroid therapy. Even "natural looking" types like Hugh Jackman. I am not even mentioning the likes of the Rock and Arnold - they never denied taking steroids when asked.

Thanks.
Anybody performing at high levels are on something these days,even musicians have a beta blocker epidemic!

 

[Regina]

Prolonged overproduction of cortisol atrophies the adrenal layer that produces pregnenolone and progesterone and DHEA, while leaving the cortisol layer intact. In addition, cortisol inhibits the side cleavage enzyme so eventually pregnenolone production in the brain and other crucial organs will also drop. Cortisol also activate aromatase and both cortisol and estrogen inhibit Leydig cell function, so gonads cannot synthesize enough T/DHT to oppose the glucocorticoids and estrogen. It is well known that with age the ability to produce cortisol does NOT decline and the "normal" cortisol range on blood tests is pretty much the same for age range 12-100. The good news is that the adrenal layer producing beneficial steroids can regenerate within 2-3 days if cortisol is lowered and thyroid is given a chance to take over. Leydig cells were also shown to NOT degenerate with age, they are simply suppressed and resume production as soon as pregnenolone and DHEA are available as precursors and NAD as cofactor.
Cortisol rises since the progessive accmulation of PUFA leads to both chronic low grade inflammation and insulin resistance. Getting rid of all that bad fat can have dramatic effects on steroid synthesis even in very old people. There was a case study published recently showing after liposuction and bariatric surgery the DHEA and progesterone levels of a woman in her late 60s returned to teen levels. I would not advise everybody to go do that but it does illustrate the point well.
And yes, most of these lean and "healthy" looking people either are in very catabolic state and pass as healthy simply due to being thin, or are using something they do not wan the public to know. Most actors and celebrities are on some form of steroid therapy. Even "natural looking" types like Hugh Jackman. I am not even mentioning the likes of the Rock and Arnold - they never denied taking steroids when asked.

It's not just that catabolic state people are thin so they pass for "healthy." They get the confirmation from just about everybody. For example, my pulse was a shitty 66 at my Dr's office. She said that was WONderful!!

 

[PUTFOT]

Will this significantly increase free testosterone even in healthy man? Anybody experience better beard growth?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Will this significantly increase free testosterone even in healthy man? Anybody experience better beard growth?

I have. Much faster.

 

[PUTFOT]

I have. Much faster.

How about density or thickness?

 

[amethyst]

Prolonged overproduction of cortisol atrophies the adrenal layer that produces pregnenolone and progesterone and DHEA, while leaving the cortisol layer intact. In addition, cortisol inhibits the side cleavage enzyme so eventually pregnenolone production in the brain and other crucial organs will also drop. Cortisol also activate aromatase and both cortisol and estrogen inhibit Leydig cell function, so gonads cannot synthesize enough T/DHT to oppose the glucocorticoids and estrogen. It is well known that with age the ability to produce cortisol does NOT decline and the "normal" cortisol range on blood tests is pretty much the same for age range 12-100. The good news is that the adrenal layer producing beneficial steroids can regenerate within 2-3 days if cortisol is lowered and thyroid is given a chance to take over. Leydig cells were also shown to NOT degenerate with age, they are simply suppressed and resume production as soon as pregnenolone and DHEA are available as precursors and NAD as cofactor.
Cortisol rises since the progessive accmulation of PUFA leads to both chronic low grade inflammation and insulin resistance. Getting rid of all that bad fat can have dramatic effects on steroid synthesis even in very old people. There was a case study published recently showing after liposuction and bariatric surgery the DHEA and progesterone levels of a woman in her late 60s returned to teen levels. I would not advise everybody to go do that but it does illustrate the point well.
And yes, most of these lean and "healthy" looking people either are in very catabolic state and pass as healthy simply due to being thin, or are using something they do not wan the public to know. Most actors and celebrities are on some form of steroid therapy. Even "natural looking" types like Hugh Jackman. I am not even mentioning the likes of the Rock and Arnold - they never denied taking steroids when asked.

I know for a fact that many in my former industry were/are using drugs: ie cocaine, nicotine, steroids,adderall, abusing off market diet drugs etc. Several ended up with heart problems, addiction you name it, so they were definitely not healthy.

 

[haidut]

It's not just that catabolic state people are thin so they pass for "healthy." They get the confirmation from just about everybody. For example, my pulse was a shitty 66 at my Dr's office. She said that was WONderful!!

Next time ask her why before people die their heart rate and blood pressure drops to levels of a marathon runner (30bpm, and 80/50).

I know for a fact that many in my former industry were/are using drugs: ie cocaine, nicotine, steroids,adderall, abusing off market diet drugs etc. Several ended up with heart problems, addiction you name it, so they were definitely not healthy.

Well, if they want to use steroids you can send them this link below for some background on what steroids decline and what needs to be supplemented.
Pregnenolone, Progesterone And DHEA Drop, Cortisol Rises In Aging

 

[amethyst]

Next time ask her why before people die their heart rate and blood pressure drops to levels of a marathon runner (30bpm, and 80/50).


Well, if they want to use steroids you can send them this link below for some background on what steroids decline and what needs to be supplemented.
Pregnenolone, Progesterone And DHEA Drop, Cortisol Rises In Aging

To be candid with you, I don't think many would be willing to give up their drugs as they would probably lose their careers. They are (have)probably going to (have already) ended up crashing and burning unfortunately.

 

[bdawg]

To be candid with you, I don't think many would be willing to give up their drugs as they would probably lose their careers. They are (have)probably going to (have already) ended up crashing and burning unfortunately.

which industry do you speak of?

 

[Regina]

Next time ask her why before people die their heart rate and blood pressure drops to levels of a marathon runner (30bpm, and 80/50).
I will Haidut! It's a stunning question and I've committed it to memory.
Considering the day I was there, my pulse was 66 and BP 104/70. So, death's door she calls WONderful.

I tried to find more on the forum about low blood pressure and am a bit lost. I noted you mentioned in another thread that there are many diseases associated with chronic low blood pressure. (sorry for the sloppy paraphrase). Would you perhaps point me to some place I can dig around to learn more? (re chronic diseases associated with lo bp).

 

[haidut]

Chronically low blood pressure is usually due to high NO. So, many autoimmune conditions, characterized with high NO also have low BP and low BPM issues. You can search for "rheumatoid arthritis nitric oxide" or "multiple sclerosis nitric oxide" and then search each condition in regards to blood pressure. Blood pressure drops quite a bit during anesthesia and methylene blue is sometimes given to raise it if it drops too low for doctor's comfort. The mechanism of action is opposition to NO, which skyrockets during surgery.

 

[Regina]

Chronically low blood pressure is usually due to high NO. So, many autoimmune conditions, characterized with high NO also have low BP and low BPM issues. You can search for "rheumatoid arthritis nitric oxide" or "multiple sclerosis nitric oxide" and then search each condition in regards to blood pressure. Blood pressure drops quite a bit during anesthesia and methylene blue is sometimes given to raise it if it drops too low for doctor's comfort. The mechanism of action is opposition to NO, which skyrockets during surgery.

Great Haidut! Thank you!