PUFA Required/essential For Cancer; Stearic Acid Is A PUFA Antagonist & Anti-cancer

[lollipop]

Obi-wan, your the man!... I follow you...I know you have serious health issues and I wish you well.

+1

 

[Obi-wan]

@Travis, would really like to get your thoughts on wheat germ oil since it seems to be high in linoleic acid and many of us use it for a Vit. E supplement.

 

[Travis]

@Travis, would really like to get your thoughts on wheat germ oil since it seems to be high in linoleic acid and many of us use it for a Vit. E supplement.

I think mixed tocopherols in olive would be the best. The 'mixed tocopherols' have all of the Greek subtypes—α, β, γ, and δ—which are all slightly different. Gamma‐(γ)‐tocopherol is unique in that it can capture reactive nitrogen species (RNS) on the cell membrane, something that α‐tocopherol cannot do. Alpha‐(α)‐tocopherol can actually displace γ‐tocopherol leading to a lower rate of RNS clearance. Like many things dealing will small free radicals, the ability of γ‐tocopherol to capture RNS has actually been demonstrated (by serious chemists, multiple times):

Cooney, R. "Gamma-tocopherol detoxification of nitrogen dioxide: superiority to alpha-tocopherol." Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (1993)​

 

[dand]

Wouldn’t defibrin cover this?

 

[managing]

I have a cocoa butter/shea oil combo I've been putting on scar tissue. Maybe I should be eating it . . .

 

[Obi-wan]

I have a cocoa butter/shea oil combo I've been putting on scar tissue. Maybe I should be eating it . . .

Actually better to use transdermal. Stearic acid will stay as stearic acid where if taken orally some will convert to oleic acid

 

[Pompadour]

Actually better to use transdermal.

So , a cream with pure stearic acid might be a good solution.

 

[Obi-wan]

So , a cream with pure stearic acid might be a good solution.

I would think so as long as it does not include a vegetable oil

 

[Obi-wan]

Thank you @bzmazu and @lisaferraro

 

[Obi-wan]

Olive Oil:

Fatty acid Percentage ref.
Oleic acid 55 to 83% [89][90]
Linoleic acid 3.5 to 21% [89][90]
Palmitic acid 7.5 to 20% [89]
Stearic acid 0.5 to 5% [89]
α-Linolenic acid 0 to 1.5% [89]

Olive oil can still have a lot of Linoleic acid. @Travis it looks as though you can't have Vit E without a lot of Linoleic acid

 

[Obi-wan]

In general, food sources with the highest concentrations of vitamin E are vegetable oils, followed by nuts and seeds including whole grains. Adjusting for typical portion sizes, however, for many people in the United States the most important sources of vitamin E include commercial breakfast cereal and tomato sauce.[22] Although originally extracted from wheat germ oil, most natural vitamin E supplements are now derived from vegetable oils, usually soybean oil.

Vitamin E content per 100 g of source include:[23][24]

• Wheat germ oil (215.4 mg)
• Sunflower oil (55.8 mg)
• Almond oil (39.2 mg)
• Sunflower seed (35.17 mg)
• Almond (26.2 mg)
• Hazelnut (26.0 mg)
• Walnut oil (20.0 mg)
• Peanut oil (17.2 mg)
• Olive oil (12.0 mg)
• Poppyseed oil (11.4 mg)
• Peanut (9.0 mg)
• Pollard (2.4 mg)
• Maize (2.0 mg)
• Poppy seed (1.8 mg)
• Baru almonds (Dipteryx alata) (21.4 mg)
• Asparagus (1.5 mg)
• Oats (1.5 mg)
• Chestnut (1.2 mg)
• Coconut (1.0 mg)
• Tomatoes (0.9 mg)
• Walnut (0.7 mg)
• Carrots (0.6 mg)
• Goat's milk (0.1 mg)

A 100 g serving of certain fortified breakfast cereals may contain 24 mg (or more) vitamin E.[22]

The proportion of vitamin E to other tocopherols in a nutrient source varies greatly. For example, the tocopherol content is 96% vitamin E in almonds and 9% vitamin E in poppy seeds.[24]

 

[Obi-wan]

@Travis I don't understand how Vit. E can be protective against PUFA when it comes from PUFA?

 

[HDD]

@Travis I don't understand how Vit. E can be protective against PUFA when it comes from PUFA?

I just listened to this interview and here is Ray Peat’s explanation.

RP: Vitamin E is somewhat unsaturated, but it happens to stop the chain reaction that proceeds if you have too much of the polyunsaturated fats. And if you don't have any of the polyunsaturated fats in your diet, you really don't need vitamin E. The requirement for vitamin E is directly related to how much unsaturated fat you're eating. So, when they feed animals coconut oil, they find that they hardly need any vitamin E at all.

The coconut oil works very much like vitamin E in stopping the chain reactions of oxidation in the RP: polyunsaturated fats.


Eluv: Good Fats

 

[Obi-wan]

So it stops the chain reaction of linoleic acid to arachidonic acid to prostaglandin E2 to ornithine decarboxylase to polyamines to proliferation . I would enjoy an explanation from @Travis, @haidut, @Koveras . To my knowledge only stearic acid can do this.

 

[Obi-wan]

The early vitamin E studies showed that it would protect to a great extent against the overexposure to the unsaturated fats, and that led to vitamin E being thought of as an antioxidant primarily. The vitamin E originally (research) showed that it was an anti-estrogen. For various reasons it came to be described only as an antioxidant because it protected against the polyunsaturated fat excess.

The reason there's a connection is that estrogen excess causes the oxidation of the polyunsaturated fats, and so an excess of either estrogen or polyunsaturated fat amounts to the same thing as a vitamin E deficiency leading to sterility and brain problems and skin aging and RP: so on.

The coconut oil works very much like vitamin E in stopping the chain reactions of oxidation in the RP: polyunsaturated fats. -Per Ray Peat

Coconut oil has ZERO linoleic acid and can stop the chain reaction of oxidation. Unfortunately Vit E is derived from seed oils and ALL have Linoleic acid.

I will stop all supplements with Vit. E and take Coconut oil!

 

[Koveras]

So it stops the chain reaction of linoleic acid to arachidonic acid to prostaglandin E2 to ornithine decarboxylase to polyamines to proliferation . I would enjoy an explanation from @Travis, @haidut, @Koveras . To my knowledge only stearic acid can do this.

No, different chain reaction.

Vitamin E will help reduce the formation (or increase the clearance) of lipid peroxides.



Masterclass With Masterjohn 1: The Antioxidant Defense System

 

[Obi-wan]

RP: Oh, for a hundred years it was a good cheap oil that they made Oreo crackers and tortilla chips and potato chips, and it was very popular because you could store it in a barrel as long as you wanted and it never got rancid. But in the Second World War, the islands weren't accessible and they started experimenting with using other seed oils, and animal food was one of the first places that they experimented with the unsaturated fat. They started seeing animals, rats and other lab animals dying with softening of the brain and degeneration of the GONADS! - loved this comment!

 

[Obi-wan]

Lipid peroxidation is the oxidative degradation of lipids. It is the process in which free radicals "steal" electrons from the lipids in cell membranes, resulting in cell damage. This process proceeds by a free radical chain reaction mechanism. It most often affects polyunsaturated fatty acids, because they contain multiple double bonds in between which lie methylene bridges (-CH2-) that possess especially reactive hydrogen atoms. As with any radical reaction, the reaction consists of three major steps: initiation, propagation, and termination. The chemical products of this oxidation are known as lipid peroxides or lipid oxidation products-Wilkipedia

The chain reaction format of the lipid peroxidation cycle and tight control of the levels of antioxidants “dissolved” in lipid bilayers (vitamin E is present in lipid membranes at levels not exceeding the ratio of 1 molecule per 2000 fatty acid residues[5]) explain the inefficiency of antioxidant approaches at keeping lipid peroxidation in check. An alternative, non-antioxidant based method employs deuteration of polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) at the methylene bridges (bis-allylic sites) between double bonds, which leads to the inhibition of the chain reaction courtesy of a kinetic isotope effect. Such D-PUFAs, for example, 11,11-D2-ethyl linoleate, suppress lipid peroxidation even at relatively low levels of incorporation into membranes.[6] -Wilkipedia

Note: inefficiency of antioxidant approaches at keeping lipid peroxidation in check

 

[Travis]

So it stops the chain reaction of linoleic acid to arachidonic acid to prostaglandin E2 to ornithine decarboxylase to polyamines to proliferation . I would enjoy an explanation from @Travis, @haidut, @Koveras . To my knowledge only stearic acid can do this.

If you look at the eicosanoids, you'll see that they are all oxidized 20‐carbon polyunsaturated fatty acids. Some of the simpler ones, like leukotriene B₄, are so simple that they can be made spontaneously from O₂ on the cell membrane. However, this would still have to be cleaved off the phospholipid for it to signal the nucleus. I have even read an article where a cyclic 'prostaglandin‐like' eicosanoid had been formed spontaneously from oxygen—a truly bizarre lipid.

Vitamin E is probably most beneficial in the brain, where it has been shown to reduce lipofuscin. If you read through a few of the classic Brunk & Terman articles you will find the source for this. Iron chelators have also been shown to reduce the rate of lipofuscin formation, and O₂ has been shown to accelerate it. Since I don't think it's a good idea to lower O₂ in the brain (besides those occasional autoerotic asphyxiations), perhaps the best we can do to avoid lipofuscin is avoid iron and excessive polyunsaturated fatty acids while taking vitamin E. I think 'mixed tocopherols' are better, since only γ-tocopherol is capable of intercepting reactive nitrogen species—something α-tocopherol cannot. The fact that α-tocopherol can displace γ-tocopherol can perhaps explain why the large scale cancer trials with vitamin E supplementation gave little effect (although, I can't really see how vitamin E would be expected to influence cancer too much). Autophagy has also been shown to reduce lipofuscin, and this is activated by leucine restriction. Terms like 'dietary restriction,' 'fasting,' and 'caloric restriction' have been used to describe the induction of autophagy, but after every single amino acid had been tested only leucine had been found relevant. Rapamycin also increases autophagy, lending support to the idea that leucine is doing this through the mTOR pathway (perhaps through the leucine‐receptor–sensor called sestrin‐2). So leucine is on par with methionine and would seem contraindicated in cancer—despite not being be particularly carcinogenic—by preventing tumor breakdown.

Even if vitamin E isn't particularly effective against cancer, you'd expect it promote longevity and prevent dementia by reducing spontaneous lipid peroxidations in brain.

 

[Wagner83]

In general, food sources with the highest concentrations of vitamin E are vegetable oils, followed by nuts and seeds including whole grains. Adjusting for typical portion sizes, however, for many people in the United States the most important sources of vitamin E include commercial breakfast cereal and tomato sauce.[22] Although originally extracted from wheat germ oil, most natural vitamin E supplements are now derived from vegetable oils, usually soybean oil.

Vitamin E content per 100 g of source include:[23][24]

Kiwi fruits! They have plenty of vitamin E, C and K.