Psilocybin For Treatment-resistant Depression: FMRI-measured Brain Mechanisms

[RedStaR]

Have you read any of Ray Peat's work?

No, but I read scientific studies.

Are they contradictory?

 

[Makrosky]

No, but I read scientific studies.

Are they contradictory?

Ah, that explains

 

[Dhair]

No, but I read scientific studies.

Are they contradictory?

If you're implying that his work is unscientific, I would say no.
We also read scientific studies, so welcome to the club, I guess? Not sure if that question was rhetorical or just generally snarky.
Anyway, had you been privy to his work you would certainly know and understand why estrogen and serotonin get a "bad rap" on this forum, which is, after all, the Ray Peat Forum.

 

[RedStaR]

If you're implying that his work is unscientific, I would say no.
We also read scientific studies, so welcome to the club, I guess? Not sure if that question was rhetorical or just generally snarky.
Anyway, had you been privy to his work you would certainly know and understand why estrogen and serotonin get a "bad rap" on this forum, which is, after all, the Ray Peat Forum.

Why would you think that I would think that his work is unscientific?

I guess it has to do with me saying that estrogen and serotonin are essential to life, and Ray's work dissuade's them.

At least we both agree that my implication was your conjecture.

 

[charlie]

Why would you think that I would think that his work is unscientific?

I guess it has to do with me saying that estrogen and serotonin are essential to life, and Ray's work dissuade's them.

At least we both agree that my implication was your conjecture.

Have you read any of Ray Peat's articles? This is the Ray Peat Forum and we are here to discuss Ray Peat's work and how we can apply it to our lives.

www.RayPeat.com

 

[RedStaR]

Have you read any of Ray Peat's articles? This is the Ray Peat Forum and we are here to discuss Ray Peat's work and how we can apply it to our lives.

www.RayPeat.com

I just skimmed quickly through the first serotonin article posted. To my understanding, Ray has passed away some time ago, and there are several fields like neurochemistry that are still rather undeveloped to this day. Whereas a lot of the articles use sources from the 50's and 60's and 90's, and from the 2000's to a lesser extent. For example, I quickly skimmed through the first Serotonin article. The last reference in the article seems to conclude, in support of Ray's view, that hypothyroidism is associated with increased 5HT brain levels. And thus we should try to minimize serotonin release in order to maximize our metabolism.

However, this goes against this paper, which suggests the opposite.
Thyroid hormones, serotonin and mood: of synergy and significance in the adult brain

Science is a continually expanding field, moreso in some parts than others obviously. Even though Ray's protocols have helped lots of people in their health goals, but I find either some users here take his articles too literally (serotonin and estrogen is bad), or that some of his work has become outdated since he isn't around anymore, naturally.

I'm not saying his methods are outdated, our bodies stay the same, and if it worked at one point, it should continue doing so. However, the rationale behind them may be disputed. It would take me days to go through it and its sources properly, however.

 

[charlie]

To my understanding, Ray has passed away some time ago, and there are several fields like neurochemistry that are still rather undeveloped to this day.

You understand incorrectly, Ray is not dead.

Even though Ray's protocols have helped lots of people in their health goals, but I find either some users here take his articles too literally (serotonin and estrogen is bad), or that some of his work has become outdated since he isn't around anymore, naturally.

Some people do take it wrong, as with any other teachings in life. However, many of us know and agree that those substances(estrogen, serotonin, etc) are indeed needed for life, but when they become too much without the proper mechanisms to oppose them in the correct ratio for example estrogen dominance, that is where degenerative energy comes into play. Ray Peat continues to expand his knowledge, all the while keeping those old studies in play for an even bigger complete picture then someone looking at all the new and shiny studies and throwing out the old ones.

It would take me days to go through it and its sources properly, however.

The purposes of this forum are stated:

This forum is for members interested in learning about and discussing Dr. Ray Peat's ideas, as presented in his writings and interviews, and in helping each other to think about how we can apply these ideas in our own lives.

 

[RedStaR]

You understand incorrectly, Ray is not dead.

That's good to hear, I genuinely thought otherwise.

Does he post here?

Some people do take it wrong, as with any other teachings in life. However, many of us know and agree that those substances(estrogen, serotonin, etc) are indeed needed for life, but when they become too much without the proper mechanisms to oppose them in the correct ratio for example estrogen dominance, that is where degenerative energy comes into play. Ray Peat continues to expand his knowledge, all the while keeping those old studies in play for an even bigger complete picture then someone looking at all the new and shiny studies and throwing out the old ones.

Thank you! It's when things are taking literally that people get hurt.

The purposes of this forum are stated

I hope that does not mean that I need to read all his articles and follow them before posting on this forum.

For example, this thread has little to do with Ray Peat's work, among others.

I stumbled upon here by accident initially, but I've then found the community to be quite intelligent, health conscious, and driven.

 

[ecstatichamster]

That's good to hear, I genuinely thought otherwise.

Does he post here?

Thank you! It's when things are taking literally that people get hurt.

I hope that does not mean that I need to read all his articles and follow them before posting on this forum.

For example, this thread has little to do with Ray Peat's work, among others.

I stumbled upon here by accident initially, but I've then found the community to be quite intelligent, health conscious, and driven.

yes but you should take time to read some of Ray's work. Ray has specifically talked about the damage caused by estrogen and the pro-estrogen pharma lobbies and its influence on decades of medical research that is politically funded and driven by drug companies.

One of the bedrocks of Ray's work is low estrogen is desirable and estrogen itself is harmful. Estrogen is a hormone needed for tissue repair and rapid cell division and is a stress hormone.

I think it will take you a couple of hours to read some of Ray's articles if you want to do so. He is a bit hard to understand sometimes but totally and completely worth reading.

 

[RedStaR]

That's funny since 5HT2a antagonists are used to nullify SSRI's neurogenesis and antidepressant effects.

Small correction, it's actually 5-HT2B.

 

[RedStaR]

yes but you should take time to read some of Ray's work. Ray has specifically talked about the damage caused by estrogen and the pro-estrogen pharma lobbies and its influence on decades of medical research that is politically funded and driven by drug companies.

One of the bedrocks of Ray's work is low estrogen is desirable and estrogen itself is harmful. Estrogen is a hormone needed for tissue repair and rapid cell division and is a stress hormone.

I think it will take you a couple of hours to read some of Ray's articles if you want to do so. He is a bit hard to understand sometimes but totally and completely worth reading.

Which Estrogen are we talking about? Which pathways of estrogen do we need to minimize? Why don't we just take Aromatase Inhibitors for a healthier life? This is partially what I was referring to earlier.

Estrogen is essential for the male and female brain, and going out of your way to minimize this can cause irreversible neurological damage.

Some people have estrogen problems and should address them accordingly (through a peat diet or otherwise), but generalizations may create problems, rather than abide them.

I understand that this is more targeted towards hypothyroids restarting their metabolism, but again, it's sometimes taken literal by everybody.

 

[ecstatichamster]

Which Estrogen are we talking about? Which pathways of estrogen do we need to minimize? Why don't we just take Aromatase Inhibitors for a healthier life? This is partially what I was referring to earlier.

Estrogen is essential for the male and female brain, and going out of your way to minimize this can cause irreversible neurological damage.

Some people have estrogen problems and should address them accordingly (through a peat diet or otherwise), but generalizations may create problems, rather than abide them.

I understand that this is more targeted towards hypothyroids restarting their metabolism, but again, it's sometimes taken literal by everybody.

Yes, I'm sure estrogen is essential. Aromatase inhibitors have many of their own problems and side effects. That doesn't mean that estrogen is a good thing for most of us. Because we have too much of it. In the real world, we are low in thyroid and we have slow metabolisms and digestive issues and we are all trying to improve. That's why we are here.

 

[Makrosky]

That's good to hear, I genuinely thought otherwise.

Does he post here?

Thank you! It's when things are taking literally that people get hurt.

I hope that does not mean that I need to read all his articles and follow them before posting on this forum.

For example, this thread has little to do with Ray Peat's work, among others.

I stumbled upon here by accident initially, but I've then found the community to be quite intelligent, health conscious, and driven.

Welcome to the forum then! I think charlie's and ecstatichamster suggestions are more in the sense that if you haven't read Ray's work then lots of things we talk about here will seem you contrary to common medical/scientifical knowledge and then we'll engage in useless discussions. Like the serotonin receptor thing we just had. We all here know what the mainstream medicine says : serotonin is good, fish oils are good, etc. it is useless to discuss those things here because we came here in the first place running away from those mantras.

On the other hand, discussing, opposing, rejecting, whatever... all these things in relation to Ray's work then that's a vergy good thing IMHO.

 

[Dhair]

Which Estrogen are we talking about? Which pathways of estrogen do we need to minimize? Why don't we just take Aromatase Inhibitors for a healthier life? This is partially what I was referring to earlier.

Estrogen is essential for the male and female brain, and going out of your way to minimize this can cause irreversible neurological damage.

Some people have estrogen problems and should address them accordingly (through a peat diet or otherwise), but generalizations may create problems, rather than abide them.

I understand that this is more targeted towards hypothyroids restarting their metabolism, but again, it's sometimes taken literal by everybody.

When we say limiting estrogen's damaging effects on tissues is desirable, we are not suggesting that estrogen needs to be eliminated from the body at all costs. No one is suggesting that we should all take synthetic AIs so that we may be healthy again. In fact, most of us recommend against using them in any case. Again, this is why it would be helpful to read Ray Peat's work so that you can understand the context.
New people come here all the time and say, "you guys are crazy for recommending x, y and z!" but they never do the work. You would probably enjoy Ray's articles and books if you took the time to read them. And yes, he does provide verifiable sources.

 

[Frankdee20]

So you think pure and simple agonism of 5ht2a can bring someone suffering severe depression out of it? Non sense to me.

I agree, activation of 5ht2a should worsen depression, and neuroticism. Look at brains of suicide victims, lots of 2A demsity

 

[Brandin]

No, but I read scientific studies.

Are they contradictory?

I have had both high serotonin and also low. High serotonin blunts bad feelings but also all the good ones. The only thing that I felt was irritation. Did it as an experiment. Trust me its not the 5htp agonism from ssri that does the job.

 

[Brandin]

I agree, activation of 5ht2a should worsen depression, and neuroticism. Look at brains of suicide victims, lots of 2A demsity

Totally!