Probiotics Are Dangerous, Should Be Regulated As Drugs

[Elephanto]

Not arguing with you here. Just highlighting that this product only contains the phages that Ray has recommended in the past. I am not an expert in their action. Thank you for highlighting in case someone wants to dig deeper.

It's fine, I was just pointing out that the product itself advertises growth in the small intestine.

 

[Elchapchapchapo]

I recently read in a book about apple cider vinegar that ACV can help to elimainate lactic acid from fermented foods

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Acetic acid is highly toxic to lactobacillus and lactobacillus reuteri produces powerful antibiotics and may have beneficial systemic effects due to it.

Personally I consume Apple cider vinegar almost daily to reduce lactobacillus.

 

[Glassy]

So that would support ACV and CO in your carrot salad. The carrot fibres presumably help transport the CO and ACV as well as sweeping out the contents and not feeding the microbial populations too much.

I’ve personally not taken pro biotics or anti biotics in over a decade and I don’t plan to anytime soon. I like the carrot salad a lot (even without CO and ACV) as it seems to speed up transit time.

 

[Owen B]

All great points, and this is why I stay away from probiotics altogether. There is just no reliable way to test if the capsule delivers its payload in the small intestine or the gut. If there was pure phage capsule product it would probably be good since the phages should be able to clear both the small intestine and the gut.
I think you are spot on with the rectal delivery of bacteria. The fecal transplant for patients with Clostridium infection are in effect an alternative delivery method for probiotics. There are quite a few studies on this method and even established products on the market. However they tend to be VERY expensive. Here is one, just as an example that I do not suggest or endorse in any way.
https://www.amazon.com/BioPure-Brav...id=1535987552&sr=8-3&keywords=bravo+probiotic

There were at one time - I haven't researched it - rectal delivery bacterial medicines that followed the work of a guy named Enderlein. I tried one once for a really bad candida and it was very effective..

 

[EIRE24]

I just wanted to throw my own experience. I had been battling autoimmune disease for the past two years and besides switching to saturated fats and following other Ray Peat guidelines the absolute crucial step was taking a histamine degrading D-lactate free probiotic, without which I could not have recovered.

I had taken antibiotics before but afterwards something in my gut always got screwed up. Three days of stool testing showed I had disbiosis where I had certain strains missing and had the presence of infectious strains and a yeast infection. I couldn’t tolerate sugar or sweet fruits (would get inflammation flare up).

In fact when I look back to when my autoimmune problems started it was weeks after taking one of those off the shelf multi-strain probiotics to treat constipation.

Since then I’ve tried many probiotics and probiotic drinks and foods like sauerkraut and kimchi and they almost all made me more sick and it took me a while to connect the dots to histamine/d-lactate. The only probiotic that made me improve had only histamine degrading/neutral and d-lactate free strains that my naturopath recommended. I did get SIBO from it after 3 months of use and had to fight that for weeks. Than my autoimmune flared up again.

After months of struggle I went back on the same probiotic but at a much smaller dose (25 billion instead of 500 billion). I also stopped taking it after eating fruits or any “prebiotics” and took them on an empty stomach to prevent overgrowth. I now am significantly healthier and I have much more energy and my inflammation is virtually gone thanks to the probiotic. I can also tolerate sugar, candies, and any fruit without flare ups or brain fog.

Just my 2 cents.

How did you get rid of the sibo and the gut issues?

 

[Owen B]

http://www.sanum.co.uk/gunther-enderlein/

Here's the link to Gunther Enderlein's work. Products are still available. I haven't used them in years.

 

[bk_]

How did you get rid of the sibo and the gut issues?

I got rid of the SIBO by cutting out the probiotics, fruits, and sweets and taking manuka honey, Berberine, and coconut oil straight. Took 3 weeks until I was able to eat a fruit without diarrhea.

A year later I still have some food sensitivities and hypochloridia though it’s improved after starting on desiccated thyroid and making my diet more Peat-like. I was screwed up by finasteride, any advice is welcome.

 

[Obi-wan]

"Yes, but I think Acetobacter does it better: This genus produces acetic acid, is nonimmunogenic towards macrophages, and has an alcohol dehydrogenase isoform. Actinomycetes has yeast-destroying chitinase," -Travis

ACV seems to be getting a lot of attention on the forum. I personally mix it with a base like baking soda (I prefer potassium bicarbonate now) to create an acetate which is directly used with coenzyme A to form acetyl-CoA that feeds directly into the Krebs cycle. Glycolysis and beta oxidation of fats does this as well. Glycolysis is preferred. But this is in a normal resting cell. A continuous overexcited cell will convert Pyruvate from Glycolysis to lactic acid instead and the cell will use beta oxidation of fats to produce ATP (the cells energy currency) but less than Glycolysis. PUFA just creates more lactic acid and the cell goes into a primitive fermentative stage. The membrane potential depolarizes as sodium enters the cell and potassium leaves causing the cell to swell bringing in the stress hormones so the cell can divide. By feeding the cell with ACV/base it should restart the Krebs cycle. Malate of ACV must also have a positive function in the Krebs cycle. The end result is more ATP and carbon dioxide which will oppose the lactic acid. By feeding the cell potassium it and the extra ATP should return the cell back to a high negative potential (-70 to -80 mV). Add aspirin to inhibit COX1 and COX2 which prevents prostaglandins and prevents inflammation...so what caused the continuous overexcitation of the cell in the first place...

 

[Obi-wan]

Action potential

In physiology, an action potential occurs when the membrane potential of a specific axon location rapidly rises and falls:[1] this depolarization then causes adjacent locations to similarly depolarize. Action potentials occur in several types of animal cells, called excitable cells, which include neurons, muscle cells, endocrine cells, and in some plant cells. -Wikipedia

My focus is excitation in endocrine cells...

 

[Mufasa]

@haidut Do you know if skyr is high in the bad form of lactic acid as well?

 

[haidut]

@haidut Do you know if skyr is high in the bad form of lactic acid as well?

None of the strained yogurts should have lactic acid in them. So, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, skyr, etc are all essentially cheeses - yogurt drained of the whey and lactic acid so only the casein is left.

 

[Fractality]

I personally mix it with a base like baking soda (I prefer potassium bicarbonate now) to create an acetate which is directly used with coenzyme A to form acetyl-CoA that feeds directly into the Krebs cycle.

Where do you buy the potassium bicarbonate? Thanks

 

[Obi-wan]

At Amazon Prime under $10,00 for a 1 pound bag.

 

[Obi-wan]

At Amazon Prime. Under $10.00 for a 1 pound bag. I have been experimenting with ACV, sodium bicarbonate and potassium bicarbonate. SB gives me energy and PB kind of makes me feel fatigued. So now I decided to combine the ACV/SB/PB and like the mix producing a sodium/potassium acetate. This will combine with CoA and form acetyl-CoA and feed the Krebs cycle. Both inner potassium and outer sodium keep the cell at a potential. Hopefully a -70 to -80 mV resting potential.

 

[Broken man]

Hello, I am little confused because I am taking probiotic product for 1 week and have only benefits like white teeth, good digestion, no histamine intolerance, warm whole day.

 

[hmac]

So you're effectively taking a potassium acetate/malate supplement?

 

[hmac]

At Amazon Prime. Under $10.00 for a 1 pound bag. I have been experimenting with ACV, sodium bicarbonate and potassium bicarbonate. SB gives me energy and PB kind of makes me feel fatigued. So now I decided to combine the ACV/SB/PB and like the mix producing a sodium/potassium acetate. This will combine with CoA and form acetyl-CoA and feed the Krebs cycle. Both inner potassium and outer sodium keep the cell at a potential. Hopefully a -70 to -80 mV resting potential.

So you're effectively taking a potassium acetate/malate supplement?

 

[zewe]

For those who are histamine intolerant:

Histamine Intolerance and Probiotics: Restoring Gut Bacterial Balance
In an attempt to restore gut bacterial balance, many people turn to probiotics for histamine intolerance.

Probiotics have shown in numerous studies to improve gut bacterial populations and improve overall health – however, histamine intolerance poses a particular conundrum.

As discussed above, the conversion of histidine to histamine by your gut bacteria is a natural process that’s actually performed by bacteria which are typically considered beneficial to the host.

In the case of histamine intolerance, specifically, these beneficial bacteria may have become so imbalanced that they are creating negative effects and symptoms of histamine intolerance1.

In fact, bacterial production of histamine is the very same reason why histamine intolerant individuals cannot tolerate fermented foods (bone broth, kefir, wine, cheese).

Because, while bacteria are busy digesting and fermenting to produce your wines and cheeses, they produce histamine and turn these into high histamine foods!

For this exact reason, grabbing any random bottle of probiotics for histamine intolerance off the shelf is one of the biggest mistakesyou can make if you’re histamine intolerant - even if you've heard it's the best probiotic on the market.

Almost all probiotics will contain strains of bacteria that produce histamine and, therefore, adding these into your body can further throw off your bacterial balance and worsen symptoms.

I have many, many clients who have experienced this and, as you can imagine, it’s not fun. It’s a waste of time, money, and a lot of extra suffering, only to worsen their condition.

To be clear, there is literally no upside to randomly taking probiotics for histamine intolerance, unless you know exactly which ones to take.

Otherwise, there's a solid chance you're making things worse.

Below is a list of all known probiotics for histamine intolerance that will help you to select the perfect probiotic avoid making this same mistake.

Probiotics for Histamine Intolerance
The list below details exactly which probiotics should be avoided, which have shown to be beneficial probiotics for histamine intolerance and which probiotics are still in question or may benefit certain symptoms only.

Species that may need to be avoided:

• Lactobacillus casei - this species increases both histamine and tyramine
• Lactobacillus Bulgaricus
• Streptococcus thermophilus
• Lactobacillus delbrueckii
• Lactobacillus helveticus

Species that may be beneficial

• Bifidobacterium infantis
• Lactobacillus gasseri
• Bifidobacterium breve
• Bifidobacterium bifidum
• Lactobacillus salivarius
• Lactobacillus rhamnosus (especially GG) – stabilizes mast cells, reduces sensitivity of histamine receptors and allergy-associated receptors while up-regulating anti-inflammatory cells2,3.
• Bifidobacterium longum – assists in histamine degradation. Enhances the expression of genes that create tight junctions, which are molecules that hold intestinal cells together, in order to reduce post-meal inflammatory response and prevent or improve intestinal hyperpermeability (“leaky gut syndrome”) which is a contributor to symptoms of histamine intolerance4.
• Bifidobacterium lactis – helps to break down both histamine and tyramine5.
• Lactobacillus plantarum – helps to break down several biogenic amines including histamine and tyramine6.

Additional Strains of Importance:

• Lactobacillus reuteri– although many histamine intolerance lists place this bacterial strain in a histamine producing category, Lactobacillus reuteri is an interesting case because, in addition to raising histamine, it also increases levels of anti-inflammatory cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP)7.
• Saccharomyces-Boulardii – also helps to regulate digestive issues, especially diarrhea.
• Lactobacillus lactis – debate exists over whether helpful, harmful or neutral for histamine intolerance8.
• Lactococcus Lactis – used in producing some high-histamine foods but, other studies have suggested this strain to be histamine-neutral9,10.
• Lactobacillus acidophilus – debate exists over whether helpful, harmful or neutral for histamine intolerance.

Buying Probiotics for Histamine Intolerance
Although it's easy to put together a list of low histamine bacteria, finding an actual brand that carries a probiotic for histamine intolerance in stores is nearly impossible.

The difficulties in finding a probiotic for histamine intolerance are due to the fact that numerous high histamine species from the 'avoid' or 'questionable' lists, such as Lactobacillus acidophilus or Streptococcus thermophilus, tend to be some of the most commonly used ones.

FROM:
Probiotics for Histamine Intolerance: List of Low Histamine Probiotics

 

[Broken man]

For those who are histamine intolerant:

Histamine Intolerance and Probiotics: Restoring Gut Bacterial Balance
In an attempt to restore gut bacterial balance, many people turn to probiotics for histamine intolerance.

Probiotics have shown in numerous studies to improve gut bacterial populations and improve overall health – however, histamine intolerance poses a particular conundrum.

As discussed above, the conversion of histidine to histamine by your gut bacteria is a natural process that’s actually performed by bacteria which are typically considered beneficial to the host.

In the case of histamine intolerance, specifically, these beneficial bacteria may have become so imbalanced that they are creating negative effects and symptoms of histamine intolerance1.

In fact, bacterial production of histamine is the very same reason why histamine intolerant individuals cannot tolerate fermented foods (bone broth, kefir, wine, cheese).

Because, while bacteria are busy digesting and fermenting to produce your wines and cheeses, they produce histamine and turn these into high histamine foods!

For this exact reason, grabbing any random bottle of probiotics for histamine intolerance off the shelf is one of the biggest mistakesyou can make if you’re histamine intolerant - even if you've heard it's the best probiotic on the market.

Almost all probiotics will contain strains of bacteria that produce histamine and, therefore, adding these into your body can further throw off your bacterial balance and worsen symptoms.

I have many, many clients who have experienced this and, as you can imagine, it’s not fun. It’s a waste of time, money, and a lot of extra suffering, only to worsen their condition.

To be clear, there is literally no upside to randomly taking probiotics for histamine intolerance, unless you know exactly which ones to take.

Otherwise, there's a solid chance you're making things worse.

Below is a list of all known probiotics for histamine intolerance that will help you to select the perfect probiotic avoid making this same mistake.

Probiotics for Histamine Intolerance
The list below details exactly which probiotics should be avoided, which have shown to be beneficial probiotics for histamine intolerance and which probiotics are still in question or may benefit certain symptoms only.

Species that may need to be avoided:

• Lactobacillus casei - this species increases both histamine and tyramine
• Lactobacillus Bulgaricus
• Streptococcus thermophilus
• Lactobacillus delbrueckii
• Lactobacillus helveticus

Species that may be beneficial

• Bifidobacterium infantis
• Lactobacillus gasseri
• Bifidobacterium breve
• Bifidobacterium bifidum
• Lactobacillus salivarius
• Lactobacillus rhamnosus (especially GG) – stabilizes mast cells, reduces sensitivity of histamine receptors and allergy-associated receptors while up-regulating anti-inflammatory cells2,3.
• Bifidobacterium longum – assists in histamine degradation. Enhances the expression of genes that create tight junctions, which are molecules that hold intestinal cells together, in order to reduce post-meal inflammatory response and prevent or improve intestinal hyperpermeability (“leaky gut syndrome”) which is a contributor to symptoms of histamine intolerance4.
• Bifidobacterium lactis – helps to break down both histamine and tyramine5.
• Lactobacillus plantarum – helps to break down several biogenic amines including histamine and tyramine6.

Additional Strains of Importance:

• Lactobacillus reuteri– although many histamine intolerance lists place this bacterial strain in a histamine producing category, Lactobacillus reuteri is an interesting case because, in addition to raising histamine, it also increases levels of anti-inflammatory cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP)7.
• Saccharomyces-Boulardii – also helps to regulate digestive issues, especially diarrhea.
• Lactobacillus lactis – debate exists over whether helpful, harmful or neutral for histamine intolerance8.
• Lactococcus Lactis – used in producing some high-histamine foods but, other studies have suggested this strain to be histamine-neutral9,10.
• Lactobacillus acidophilus – debate exists over whether helpful, harmful or neutral for histamine intolerance.

Buying Probiotics for Histamine Intolerance
Although it's easy to put together a list of low histamine bacteria, finding an actual brand that carries a probiotic for histamine intolerance in stores is nearly impossible.

The difficulties in finding a probiotic for histamine intolerance are due to the fact that numerous high histamine species from the 'avoid' or 'questionable' lists, such as Lactobacillus acidophilus or Streptococcus thermophilus, tend to be some of the most commonly used ones.

FROM:
Probiotics for Histamine Intolerance: List of Low Histamine Probiotics

Yes, this is article I found because of facebook group "Ray Peat Inspired" and tried it with success.