OK We So Know Prostaglandin D2 Is The Main Driver Behind Baldness. What Can We Do About It?

[Hairfedup]

I'm astounded that the Internet doesn't have that much information on how to reduce the devil that is PGD2 lol. Some suggesting on nicehair.com seem entirely counter-productive. In essence the fundamental issue behind baldness has been found, but still 'they' release nothing to combat it - hair regrowth is possible, but it just isn't within the interest of corps to provide it to us. Anyone have any sure fire ways to reduce PGD2? I feel that Travis gets hounded all day on here so maybe someone else knows something. I can't believe that I'm at NW5 at 25 and have no idea why.

 

[Luckytype]

The question has a series of different answers here though. Each person responds to the flux of stress(and each type of stress, real or perceived) differently.

The reality of your situation is until we see some of your bloodwork or labs we really honestly have no idea where to begin short of giving the foundational nutrition advice that a majority of us have to adhere to to see progress short of further intervention.

If you search the forum and the net, youll find a series of things that bring pgd2 into play as well as a series of things that can downregulate it. Some of these are attainable but require commitment and dedication, some of these may be a little out of reach or seem "unreasonable" to many people.

 

[ddjd]

I think it's moreso cortisol and Estrogen that causes it

 

[MyUsernameHere]

I think it's moreso cortisol and Estrogen that causes it

If you are so convinced that estrogen is making you bald what's stopping you from taking Arimidex and solving the problem once and for all?

I'm astounded that the Internet doesn't have that much information on how to reduce the devil that is PGD2 lol. Some suggesting on nicehair.com seem entirely counter-productive. In essence the fundamental issue behind baldness has been found, but still 'they' release nothing to combat it - hair regrowth is possible, but it just isn't within the interest of corps to provide it to us. Anyone have any sure fire ways to reduce PGD2? I feel that Travis gets hounded all day on here so maybe someone else knows something. I can't believe that I'm at NW5 at 25 and have no idea why.

Setipiprant at 2g/day orally or TM30089 topically. Watch out for sleep disturbances however. Prostaglandin D2 and sleep/wake regulation. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[ddjd]

If you are so convinced that estrogen is making you bald what's stopping you from taking Arimidex and solving the problem once and for all?



Setipiprant at 2g/day orally or TM30089 topically. Watch out for sleep disturbances however. Prostaglandin D2 and sleep/wake regulation. - PubMed - NCBI

Because I said cortisol and Estrogen. Arimidex is only for estrogen. Plus there's terrible feedback in body building community about it.

I would only every take Aromasin and I'm looking to get some soon but not for hair loss issues.

Haidut explains hair loss is due to hypogonadism. There's a deficiency in androgens.

I'm trying to get hold of DHT!

 

[MyUsernameHere]

Because I said cortisol and Estrogen. Arimidex is only for estrogen. Plus there's terrible feedback in body building community about it.

I would only every take Aromasin and I'm looking to get some soon but not for hair loss issues.

Haidut explains hair loss is due to hypogonadism. There's a deficiency in androgens.

I'm trying to get hold of DHT!

The better my thyroid function and the more T & DHT and libido I get, the more hair I shed and it never comes back. When I was even more hypothyroid and using estrogen on my scalp I had a whole norwood more hair than I do now.

I love contrarian endocrinology as much as the next guy, but I'm afraid the other side has way more evidence in their favor. If hair loss was caused by deficiency in androgens then I'd already be on roids now and regrowing hair - but the unfortunate fact is that hair that is prone to balding is at complete odds with general health in the male body, and that's my observation as someone who has been battling hair loss for 5 years and still somewhere between a NW2 and 2.5. I started losing my hair at 19, for what it's worth, now 25, and I've used so many things from antiandrogens and progesterone and estradiol, so I have a very good idea of what works and what doesn't.

Aromasin + DHT will murder your hair. Don't say I didn't warn you. I didn't believe the mainstream either when I first started balding. Thought I could hack it with diet. But the worse it gets, the more desperate you become and start using the same things that the mainstream. Or just flat out admit that nothing that you do works, and give up. That's my experience, and I've yet to see someone prove me wrong with a success story based on alternate hair loss theories.

The only alternative treatment I found useful that the mainstream typically discards is red light (particularly 830 & 760 nm like the Infrared Light Mini). It helps eliminate some of the inflammation when shined at the scalp and helped me regrow some hair. But it only works up to a point where it's overcome by DHT again.

 

[LCohen]

The better my thyroid function and the more T & DHT and libido I get, the more hair I shed and it never comes back. When I was even more hypothyroid and using estrogen on my scalp I had a whole norwood more hair than I do now.

I love contrarian endocrinology as much as the next guy, but I'm afraid the other side has way more evidence in their favor. If hair loss was caused by deficiency in androgens then I'd already be on roids now and regrowing hair - but the unfortunate fact is that hair that is prone to balding is at complete odds with general health in the male body, and that's my observation as someone who has been battling hair loss for 5 years and still somewhere between a NW2 and 2.5. I started losing my hair at 19, for what it's worth, now 25, and I've used so many things from antiandrogens and progesterone and estradiol, so I have a very good idea of what works and what doesn't.

Aromasin + DHT will murder your hair. Don't say I didn't warn you. I didn't believe the mainstream either when I first started balding. Thought I could hack it with diet. But the worse it gets, the more desperate you become and start using the same things that the mainstream. Or just flat out admit that nothing that you do works, and give up. That's my experience, and I've yet to see someone prove me wrong with a success story based on alternate hair loss theories.

The only alternative treatment I found useful that the mainstream typically discards is red light (particularly 830 & 760 nm like the Infrared Light Mini). It helps eliminate some of the inflammation when shined at the scalp and helped me regrow some hair. But it only works up to a point where it's overcome by DHT again.

Aromasin isn't that bad. It has anti-inflammatory and antioxidant effects.

 

[Travis]

All of the 1- and 2-series prostaglandins are made from two dietary fatty acids: linoleic acid and γ-linoleinic acid. These are ω−6 fatty acids, and in the absence of these the body produces safer 3-series prostaglandins from eicosapentaenoic acid. I think having the 3-series prostaglandins is the natural state of affairs for humans as we historically hadn't eaten very many grains, seeds, and nuts (besides coconut).

Alternatively you try Ramatroban™, a drug—now generic—which blocks the prostaglandin D₂ receptor (a.k.a. GPR44, PR₂, CRTH2; it actually has three separate names, given by three separate scientific subfields).

Cyclosporine has been shown to regrow hair, and it likely does so at least partially by inhibiting prostaglandin D₂ formation (lowers cytokines). But just this might not be enough, as cyclosporine also increases transforming growth factor bets (TGFβ); this is involved in hair cycle signalling and could be what is providing the initial 'regrowth' signal. More investigation is needed in the area, and not even renowned hair follicle scientist Rauf Paus has a clue about how the hair growth cycle is controlled (in his own words).

Valerie Randall had shown that androgens stimulate hair growth directly at the follicle, yet they would raise both cortisol and interferon-γ when taken internally. Both the adrenals and the thymus have androgen receptors and are sexually differentiated to a degree, giving human males a more dominant TH2 pattern and more cortisol. It makes sense that males should produce more cortisol, but the change in immune parameters is more difficult to understand; perhaps that has something to do with pregnancy (or their lack of it).

Giron-Gonzalez, J. A. "Consistent production of a higher TH1: TH2 cytokine ratio by stimulated T cells in men compared with women." European journal of endocrinology (2000)​

So I think avoiding ω−6 fatty acids and immunogenic proteins would be a good start, and perhaps try Ramatroban™ or cyclosporine.

 

[Mori68]

All of the 1- and 2-series prostaglandins are made from two dietary fatty acids: linoleic acid and γ-linoleinic acid. These are ω−6 fatty acids, and in the absence of these the body produces safer 3-series prostaglandins from eicosapentaenoic acid. I think having the 3-series prostaglandins is the natural state of affairs for humans as we historically hadn't eaten very many grains, seeds, and nuts (besides coconut).

Alternatively you try Ramatroban™, a drug—now generic—which blocks the prostaglandin D₂ receptor (a.k.a. GPR44, PR₂, CRTH2; it actually has three separate names, given by three separate scientific subfields).

Cyclosporine has been shown to regrow hair, and it likely does so at least partially by inhibiting prostaglandin D₂ formation (lowers cytokines). But just this might not be enough, as cyclosporine also increases transforming growth factor bets (TGFβ); this is involved in hair cycle signalling and could be what is providing the initial 'regrowth' signal. More investigation is needed in the area, and not even renowned hair follicle scientist Rauf Paus has a clue about how the hair growth cycle is controlled (in his own words).

Valerie Randall had shown that androgens stimulate hair growth directly at the follicle, yet they would raise both cortisol and interferon-γ when taken internally. Both the adrenals and the thymus have androgen receptors and are sexually differentiated to a degree, giving human males a more dominant TH2 pattern and more cortisol. It makes sense that males should produce more cortisol, but the change in immune parameters is more difficult to understand; perhaps that has something to do with pregnancy (or their lack of it).

Giron-Gonzalez, J. A. "Consistent production of a higher TH1: TH2 cytokine ratio by stimulated T cells in men compared with women." European journal of endocrinology (2000)​

So I think avoiding ω−6 fatty acids and immunogenic proteins would be a good start, and perhaps try Ramatroban™ or cyclosporine.

Please could you expand your comment about immunogenic proteins? I’ve not hear about this idea before.

 

[nbznj]

in a very layman way: proteins that get into the bloodstream and aren't recognized by the immune system trigger a reaction. You'll feel bloated, or pain around the stomach, fatigue, impaired sleep, eventually acne hair loss etc. The proteins that often cause those reactions are usually pasteurized dairy, industrial grains, mass-produced meat from sick animals. The chemicals used in foods that have a long shelf life and the omegas 6 will contribute to this through gut lining damage. Eventually your gut is leaky and anything that isn't extremely safe becomes a problem. A calcium imbalance becomes a problem. DHT becomes a problem. And so on.

That's why you have people going the raw juice route, the no fat route, and so on. Leaky gut is the modern plague driving inflammatory process.

Answering the initial question: no omegas 6 for sure, and if omegas 6 can't be avoided because of caloric requirements or dietary choices then it seems that vitamin E is mandatory; 800iu after a fatty meal has been shown to maintain artery health

From a biochemistry standpoint, arachidonic acid directly leads to PGD2

 

[eddiem991]

@Travis Don't you believe it's bad to completely cut out omega 6 since prostaglandin PGE1, PGF2a and PGE2 are benficial for hair growth?

And one more question: would applying cyclosporine topically make it go systemic?

 

[nbznj]

Also as of omegas 6, I decided to stop caring so much about them provided they come from nuts (Brazil nuts is my choice, selenium is great for hair), oats (discussed elsewhere good on artery health), chia seeds (low in omegas 6 anyway)

My reasoning is; if you're having natural foods in decent quantities the pros are going to outweigh the cons. As in, yes you have too many PUFAs in some nuts/seeds/grains/roots but a more holistic approach may be better.

That being said there's no excuse to go ahead and ingest deep fried foods on the regular. True poisons.

 

[eddiem991]

I believe the damaging effects of PUFA largely depends on your vitamin E (also other nutrients) intake and in some extent to how much of Omega 6 you have compared to other fats.

 

[Travis]

@Travis Don't you believe it's bad to completely cut out omega 6 since prostaglandin PGE1, PGF2a and PGE2 are benficial for hair growth?

And one more question: would applying cyclosporine topically make it go systemic?

You'd still have the 3‐series prostaglandins, which could be better yet (?); but then again, who knows how prostaglandin D₃ effects hair growth?

Please could you expand your comment about immunogenic proteins? I’ve not hear about this idea before.

They can release γ-interferon, a cytokine which bridges the gap between humoral immunity and cell-mediated. What γ-interferon does best is to induce the transcription of phospholipase A₂ in target cells; this increases the production of all eicosanoids since phospholipase A₂ cleaves fatty acids from the sn-2 position, the location in which arachidonic and eicosapentaenoic acids are found on the phospholipid. The body does this because it thinks the large foreign food peptide is from an invader such as a parasite, and most eicosanoids are highly reactive oxygenated lipids which kill bacteria. Plants make something similar when they are attacked; they produce oxylipins, which are almost identical to certain human eicosanoids. So I think the physical defense functions of eicosanoids are primary, with the hormonal function coming only later in evolution. When seen in this way, I think it makes sense why they are seen during 'inflammation.'

 

[eddiem991]

For people reading this thread do not try cyclosporine, it's a strong immune suppresant and can f*ck you up badly.

 

[mayweatherking]

brace yourselves.... a 30 page thread is coming

 

[eddiem991]

@Travis Interesting, do you think prostaglandins from Omega 6 are the "plan B" and Omega 3s prostaglandins are the primary ones?

 

[Mito]

and if omegas 6 can't be avoided because of caloric requirements or dietary choices then it seems that vitamin E is mandatory; 800iu after a fatty meal has been shown to maintain artery health

I don’t think Vitamin E is going to stop prostaglandin D2 production right? I think Vitamin E just prevents polyunsaturated fatty acid lipid peroxidation chain reactions.

 

[eddiem991]

CHART OF PROSTAGLANDINS AND THEIR PRECURSORS: http://i.imgur.com/zy2LKNB.jpg

 

[Luckytype]

For people reading this thread do not try cyclosporine, it's a strong immune suppresant and can f*ck you up badly.

Finally. Thank you.