Not Quite Ready For Progesterone

Sinjin

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The progesterone increases the metabolism rate, and that is manifested in increased temperatures. With higher metabolism, there is increased use of oxygen. The sudden increase in demand for oxygen by the cells requires that the red blood cells keep up with its supply of oxygen to the cells. But, in a person that is hypothyroid, netabolism is not efficient and it produces lactic acid, instead of carbon dioxide. The shortage of carbon dioxide being supplied to the blood causes the blood to be low on carbon dioxide. This creates a condition called respiratory alkalosis.

There may be other mechanisms by which progesterone increases co2. Someone said that progesterone increases hyperventilation in order to facilitate the removal of the extra co2 produced in the bodies of pregnant women by the foetus. So you might find other pro-metabolic substances to be safer from an alkalosis perspective.
 
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yerrag

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The progesterone increases the metabolism rate, and that is manifested in increased temperatures. With higher metabolism, there is increased use of oxygen. The sudden increase in demand for oxygen by the cells requires that the red blood cells keep up with its supply of oxygen to the cells. But, in a person that is hypothyroid, netabolism is not efficient and it produces lactic acid, instead of carbon dioxide. The shortage of carbon dioxide being supplied to the blood causes the blood to be low on carbon dioxide. This creates a condition called respiratory alkalosis. With oxygen supply supply unable to keep up with oxygen demand, the heart has to compensate by increasing its rate. The breathing rate also increases in a manner described as hyperventilation. Meanwhile, the balance of electrolytes is disturbed, with for example magnesium and potassium going outside the cells (sorry my grasp is tenuous at best here on these electrolytes, which includes sodium and calcium) instead of staying inside the cells. The cardiac cells are similarly affected, and it affects the way the heart is pumped, the pumping mechanism being regulated very much by electrical charges from the electrolyte ions. This is where the heart rhythm gets affected, and irregular heart rate, or arrhythmia results.

Ray Peat has explained this in a few articles and interviews. One of them is entitled "Heart and Hormones" in his raypeat.com website. A search on his site on the keyword "arrhythmia" will yield many hits. But I'm just condensing his ideas in the limited way I can. The action of excess progesterone on a hypothyroid person leading to arrhythmia is just my take on it, and not coming from Ray Peat.

I'm now experiencing some arrhythymia myself, although my context is different. My heart rate isn't high, but I am currently on a protocol to lower my blood pressure related to a lead toxicity in my kidneys. This protocol includes my use of Progestene. At first, I had thought my arrhythmia was due to the use of plenty of raw garlic in my protocol, and I have reduced the amount since then. But a cursory look at literature does not suggest garlic to have such an effect. So, I am back to examining progesterone and its effect on arrhythmia. I had been applying 4 drops of Progestene twice a day, morning and evening, for the past week, without using Tyromix (T3/T4). Prior to that, I had been on 4 drops Progestene and 1 drop Tyromix twice a day, but I removed Tyromix because it had been increasing my blood pressure.

It's possible that the use of Progestene is causing my arrhythmia. I've been using it because I needed to increase my temperature and pulse, as I suspect one of the supplements I'm taking for detpx (selenomethionine) is lowering my metabolism. Progestene helped to compensate for it, and it has increased my temperature and pulse.

As I look back at my analysis "The shortage of carbon dioxide being supplied to the blood causes the blood to be low on carbon dioxide. This creates a condition called respiratory alkalosis. With oxygen supply supply unable to keep up with oxygen demand, the heart has to compensate by increasing its rate. The breathing rate also increases in a manner described as hyperventilation," I realize I would have to restate it, in light of a better understanding since then.

I believe that the use of progesterone by itself would increase metabolism, and exert greater demand on the use of oxygen. If a person is hypothyroid, the increase demand would easily exhaust the already sub-optimal oxygen supply, and the person would have to resort to anaerobic glycolysis, which involves fermentation and the production of lactic acid. This would eventually lead to metabolic acidosis. The effect would be pH imbalance in the blood, leading to respiratory compensation, wherein the person would hyperventilate, in an effort to expel carbon dioxide; also, it would lead to arrythnia, because of the mineral imbalance that is the result of an acidic blood pH; this would lead to an increased heart rate, because with the mineral imbalances, the heart would not be efficient in pumping blood.

Looking back, it would have been a better approach to test for lactic acid, and if lactic acid were high, the use of thiamine would have helped, as thiamine would have the effect of converting lactic acid to glucose, thus reducing the acidity of the blood.

Going back to my arrhythmia, since I'm not hypothyroid, I would see the use of progesterone to still cause increase demands on oxygen. But because my body requires a certain hypoxic state in my kidneys (to generate uric acid to protect my kidneys from the effects of lead toxicity), it has to impose a systemic limitation on the amount of oxygenation by body should allow. This means that at a certain point, I would be exhausted of oxygen, and my body would have to resort to energy production not requiring oxygen as input: anaerobic glycolysis. So, the result would be, following the explanation in the above paragraph - arrythnia. But the difference in my case, as compared to that of the case in the above paragraph, would be that the level of pH imbalance is not as severe, such that my heart rate is not increased.

Thinking this through, this state would explain why yesterday I was having a headache, and I had to rest and recuperate. I probably was running low on oxygen, and this is affecting my brain, thus the headache. I pride myself in not having headaches. And for this to happen, means there is something major going on.

Note that it's on the 6th day of being on Progestene (without any other hormone such as thyroid and pregnenoolone to possibly counter its effects) that my headache and arrythmia is taking place. It's important to take notes and be able to look back to be able to assess delayed effects.

I think there is much need for caution in using progesterone. There is a lot said about the good effects of progesterone in this forum, but not enough said about the caution needed. Perhaps, like any other substance used, the need for caution is implied. The good thing about this forum is that we understand that we go by experimenting on oneself, and we get better from it as we are able to share our findings with each other.

Needless to say, I would have to stop the use of Progestene and see if my headache and my arrhythmic condition would go away. That would at least lend some weight to my observations and conclusions thus far.

There's still something I had wanted to say: I had been struggling for the past two days with keeping myself from mouth breathing. My nose was getting stuffy and it was getting more difficult to breath from the nose. I remember one episode of Danny Roddy's interview with haidut, or maybe it was from reading a 1965 lecture by Buteyko, as written by Rakhamov?, that says that when the nose gets stuffy, it is the body's way of restricting breathing, to increase carbon dioxide in the blood. Conscious of it, I would try to keep my mouth closed and maintain breathing through the nose.

I also tried to use an exercise haidut suggested - pinch the nose and tilt the head, and sway the head from side to side ten times. It helps relieve the stuffy nose, albeit temporarily.
 
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yerrag

yerrag

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After the long post prior to this, I realize that the discomfort I'm experiencing may just be the result 0f a budding toothache. So my above speculation may just be a lot of hot air. I hope it is.
 

marsaday

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What amount of progesterone do you take per day ?? A male should use no more than 10mg per day as we make 20mg naturally.

Ray Peat ProgestE oil is a great product to take, much better than progestene.
 

Waynish

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What amount of progesterone do you take per day ?? A male should use no more than 10mg per day as we make 20mg naturally.

Ray Peat ProgestE oil is a great product to take, much better than progestene.

Why? No difference in the progesterone molecules, right? Just the Vit. E vs DMSO...
 
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yerrag

yerrag

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After the long post prior to this, I realize that the discomfort I'm experiencing may just be the result 0f a budding toothache. So my above speculation may just be a lot of hot air. I hope it is.
I went to the dentist and she took a look at my tooth. She wasn't worried about it.

So, it seems that my intake of Progestene, which is a bioidentical progesterone, could be back as the main cause of my headache. I was taking 4 drops of it twice a day, am and pm, and this was applied topically. This is equivalent to 14mg of progesterone a day. This was over a period of 14 (not 6) days (The first 3 days I applied 1 drop of Tyromix daily, but this caused my blood pressure to increase, so I stopped using Tyromix).

Now, 6 days after stopping Progestene, I still have a slight headache and I still have some arrhythmia. The effects of Progestene usage still linger, but it is slowly waning. I know the effects are still there, because of my high temperatures, and higher heart rate. Today, my heart rate is back to where it used to be before, not in the 80s, and closer to high sixties and low seventies.

Since I've used Progestene on my mom before and had encountered similar effects, I can say this is not just one incidence.

I'm not saying Progestene is a poor product. It just has to be used more conservatively than the way I've thought I've been using it. I suspect my mom to be hypothyroid, and I am a special case as mentioned above. As I'm still new to using hormones, I have to be aware of the effects and make sure I'm taking down notes every day, so I can piece together the cause and effects clearly.

Hormones are like the river. Respect its power. Do not underestimate its power. And can be your enemy, but give it wide berth, and it will be your friend.
 
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HLP

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How does a person avoid a "healing crisis"? I've been careful with diet for a full year now and up until 2 weeks ago I slept like a teenager even though I'm 60. For no apparent reason I am suddenly dealing with insomnia and it takes me a few hours to fall asleep. Before this I would fall asleep within minutes of hitting the pillow and I would sleep solid for 8-10 hours without waking at all. I do remember having this same problem as a child so I'm wondering if I'm retracing? Any ideas?
 

Progesterone

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Very odd response to progesterone... I must say.

It makes me feel SUPER CALM and just plain good. Kills stress, less/no worries. RELAXED.
 

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