Neonatal Hypothyroidism Due To Mothers VEGAN Diet

Jennifer

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Thanks :) So if you have a cow in your farm and you treat her very nicely and provide for her food and she willingly gives her baby cow milk until satisfied and she is more than happy and willingly to give some of the milk to you and to your family.. Would that be considered "vegan"?
Good question. I suspect if you asked the average ethical vegan, they'd say no. For me, that's a question that I can't answer with complete certainty.

I used to think that if the cow was well taken care of, seemed happy/didn't resist being milked, and the baby calf was allowed to stay with her for months, then it wasn't unethical for me to consume her milk. For those reasons, I made it a point to get milk from a specific farm. I even remember talking with pboy about this right before I stopped logging. However, the more I've learned, the less sure I've become.

To me, the goal is to cause the least amount of suffering (for all living beings) that's within one's own ability. If consuming dairy means the difference between living or starving to death, I can't say I believe doing so is unethical. A human animal's life is just as important as any other animal's, right?

If life or death is not the case for the family in your scenario, milk_lover, then the ethics of it become more muddled for me.

Beyond the basic issue of breeding an animal for our own use or purchasing a cow as if she were a commodity/possibly against her will, I'm left with questions like...

Where was she acquired from - was she acquired through a channel that supports any kind of abuse/slaughter and/or forced pregnancy, or was she a rescued cow etc.?

Was pregnancy forced on her such as through artificial insemination or was she allowed to mate naturally?

What is done to her after she is no longer able to produce milk - is she allowed to stay on the farm and live out her life or is she sent to slaughter?

Is her calf allowed to stay with her until he/she has weaned on his/her own?

What becomes of her calf - is he/she eventually sent off to be slaughtered, particularly the males since they can't provide milk?

And probably the biggest question I have is how do I know she is giving consent just because she doesn't try to flee, fight or resist being milked if all she has ever known is captivity? The consent of a wild horse that has never been tamed or "broken in" would be more obvious to me, but an animal that has never known real freedom, I don't know if I could consider her willingness to ever really be consent or more like "don't bite the hand that feeds you?" That's a tough one for me.

The only thing I'm certain of is that as a free woman, I value my right to choose whether or not I have sex and possibly becoming pregnant, and if having given birth, that I'm not forced to breastfeed anyone beyond my own child and certainly not year after year after year. Pregnancy and breastfeeding are a beautiful and natural thing, but that doesn't mean it's always a bed of roses for us and our bodies and I don't feel right making that decision for other females.

Sorry I couldn't answer your question, milk_lover.
 

milk_lover

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Good question. I suspect if you asked the average ethical vegan, they'd say no. For me, that's a question that I can't answer with complete certainty.

I used to think that if the cow was well taken care of, seemed happy/didn't resist being milked, and the baby calf was allowed to stay with her for months, then it wasn't unethical for me to consume her milk. For those reasons, I made it a point to get milk from a specific farm. I even remember talking with pboy about this right before I stopped logging. However, the more I've learned, the less sure I've become.

To me, the goal is to cause the least amount of suffering (for all living beings) that's within one's own ability. If consuming dairy means the difference between living or starving to death, I can't say I believe doing so is unethical. A human animal's life is just as important as any other animal's, right?

If life or death is not the case for the family in your scenario, milk_lover, then the ethics of it become more muddled for me.

Beyond the basic issue of breeding an animal for our own use or purchasing a cow as if she were a commodity/possibly against her will, I'm left with questions like...

Where was she acquired from - was she acquired through a channel that supports any kind of abuse/slaughter and/or forced pregnancy, or was she a rescued cow etc.?

Was pregnancy forced on her such as through artificial insemination or was she allowed to mate naturally?

What is done to her after she is no longer able to produce milk - is she allowed to stay on the farm and live out her life or is she sent to slaughter?

Is her calf allowed to stay with her until he/she has weaned on his/her own?

What becomes of her calf - is he/she eventually sent off to be slaughtered, particularly the males since they can't provide milk?

And probably the biggest question I have is how do I know she is giving consent just because she doesn't try to flee, fight or resist being milked if all she has ever known is captivity? The consent of a wild horse that has never been tamed or "broken in" would be more obvious to me, but an animal that has never known real freedom, I don't know if I could consider her willingness to ever really be consent or more like "don't bite the hand that feeds you?" That's a tough one for me.

The only thing I'm certain of is that as a free woman, I value my right to choose whether or not I have sex and possibly becoming pregnant, and if having given birth, that I'm not forced to breastfeed anyone beyond my own child and certainly not year after year after year. Pregnancy and breastfeeding are a beautiful and natural thing, but that doesn't mean it's always a bed of roses for us and our bodies and I don't feel right making that decision for other females.

Sorry I couldn't answer your question, milk_lover.
No Jennifer I think you answered the question clearly and they were fair points.. We don't raise cows in my country as the environment is hot and it's not suitable for them.. We're more into goats, sheep, camels.. I have never seen free floating camels where I live.. They are always in farms but they go out a lot, especially afternoon until sunset.. They come by themselves to the farm without forcing.. I think they might be just used to that and they like to socialize with the other camels in the farm where they are guaranteed water, a lot of grass, and plenty of shades in a harsh environment like the desert.. The mating season for those camels begins in the winter because that's when they are mostly happy, I think. And the weather is good enough for the farmers to visit each other and see good opportunities for mating partners. Usually the male is chosen based on how strong and beautiful his ancestors are to ensure healthy strong offsprings. Some of the camels get pregnant and some don't and when the next winter comes, those pregnant camels bring little camels to the world who get milk from their mothers for about a year long, maybe less and maybe more. The plenty of milk in the winter time due to giving birth (BTW that's when the milk is at sweetest point) contributes to the festivity of the people in the winter because I think the milk is mostly appropriate in the cold weather of the desert where the sun doesn't produce enough vitamin D for their thick dark skin and the milk warms them up and provides them with enough fat-soluble vitamins, little thyroid, little progesterone, some estrogen probably, and a calcium mine. The winter, thus, is also a good mating period of humans in that part of the world. They seek human warmth and physicality and action occurs. So as you can see, camels are part of their history and DNA.

If the baby camel dies, the camel stops giving milk as they get sad. So sometimes people put some of the baby skin on a piece of wood in where she lives so she doesn't get very sad as she remembers her kid fondly and gives milk again. I don't know if that's deception or not but people also need her milk to live. After waning, camel boys are either trained to be in camel races, slaughtered for big feast for the tribe in special occasions like wedding, having a child, winning something like shooting competition etc., or raised until adulthood for mating purposes. The camels are so loved here that some people love them more than their children. Believe it or not, they even have names for them and ancestry trees for them.. In long travels, they sing to them to keep them entertained.

Most of the cow milk in my country come from commercial farms. So I am sure some of things you described apply to those commercial farms.
 
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Drareg

Drareg

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Drareg was triggered from what I said here so he posted this.

Again, more non vegan babies die than vegan ones. Means nothing. True vegans are extremely rare. These studies prove nothing and they have nothing to do with maximizing longevity in adults. b12 is not a vegan issue, it's an intrinsic factor issue. What people who identify as "vegan" say or do means nothing to me because I'm not interested in ethics or saving the world or animals, I'm interested in maximizing health and longevity. If my conclusion of that interest happens to include many foods that people who call themselves vegan also consume then good for them, I really don't care. The fact is there is only one diet that has been proven to reverse heart disease clinically. A no oil, low fat, high starch with some fruit and cooked greens vegan diet. I couldn't care less about what crazy people do or say in cringe compilations. That's not clinical nutrition science, those are idiots, libtards and social justice warriors. Vegan bashing is so easy. It's novice. Who cares about nut jobs, I'm interested in nutrition and objective science. The fact is heart disease and cancer are the top killers and that isn't happening because everyone is eating a vegan diet.

Peat thinks it's possible to be a healthy vegan:

Peat's Surprising Response To My Email. A "Ray Peat Vegan" Is Possible

Another strawman,this time it's the triggered accusation, you flatter yourself greatly quite regularly.
Curiosity is the reason I searched for vegan diets in pregnancy,I'm assuming they are a minority as mothers instinct kicks in when pregnant.

Your diet for reversing heart disease clinically is an issue of absence of evidence. Vegans still die of heart issue and still die of cancer,they are a minority so numbers will obviously be low,forced vegan babies are also a minority.
There is no such thing as "objective science".
 
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Drareg

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But humans and in general mammals are not meant to be vegan, right? Because sucking milk from mother boobs is the natural thing to do, and milk is certainly not vegan..Not only does milk nourish the babies and make them stronger, but it also brings connection between the mother and the baby to a very higher level.. Maybe this explains why I am willing to die for my mother because I love her so much more than anything in the world as she fed me her milk for two years lool and then continued to give me cow's milk for many many years because she found out I am extremely in love with this white substance..
:+1

Some deluded vegans believe mothers milk in not the same as other mammals and can't be classed as "animal product".
 

hiconscience

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I wonder if this is to due high amounts of iodine (kelp, cranberries, beans) or possibly low iodine without dairy, high amounts of goitrogens( cruciferous), and insufficient amounts of selenium.
 
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Drareg

Drareg

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I wonder if this is to due high amounts of iodine (kelp, cranberries, beans) or possibly low iodine without dairy, high amounts of goitrogens( cruciferous), and insufficient amounts of selenium.

Very possible.
The other thing is vegan and vegetarian sperm quality is really poor in blue zone areas renowned for longevity. I'm guessing if the quality is this bad in the stress free blue zones then high stress environment like big cities it should correlate with vegan reproduction issues.
Food intake diet and sperm characteristics in a blue zone: a Loma Linda Study. - PubMed - NCBI
 

nikolabeacon

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Thanks :) So if you have a cow in your farm and you treat her very nicely and provide for her food and she willingly gives her baby cow milk until satisfied and she is more than happy and willingly to give some of the milk to you and to your family.. Would that be considered "vegan"?
Yes and you also must consider a facts that when you keep animals and use their products you must have some kind of plan to control their numbers in some way and there is a problem with practical reasons and arguably making the more stresfull environment for the young calf by separating it from mother and feeding it concentrate food formula....sometimes stressfull life cause more suffering than death....So we must decide.

If you dont separate youngs from their mothers you wont have much milk left and you will need much greater number of animals. Well at least if you want to have dairy in (Peat prefered) diet ...you will have to slaughter young animals after they stop consuming colostrum ( . veal, lamb or goatling). to have enough milk all year round and to control the number of animals since cows need to have a calf every year to keep producing enough milk . Of course you dont need to eat that but there is no point in that since you are not sparing the life. What to do with all those calfs? Only reasonable options could be euthanasia but there is no point in doing that.

What some farms today are doing is actually worse for the young animals than to be slaughtered. They separate the young from their mothers and give them food concentrate or some other food formula with little milk that can not nourish them properly and that whole process is stresfull in itself and not practical for both animals and people and you will have problems with their numbers and food resources if you are not reducing their number.
In many cultures traditionaly only young and very old animals(which are of no use or productive anymore) are used for food(slaughtered) for those exact reasons.
 

Travis

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This is bull****. Think of all the dead and deformed babies from drugs, vaccines, and pesticides, and nobody says anything.

Whenever something happens to a vegan the food industry rallies and fires-up the press. There are millions of vegans on this planet, most with healthy children.

You have to seriously ask yourself why this made the news.

Below is how many birth defects are attributed to a lack of folic acid.

spina bifida.png


Should we shame these mothers for not eating leaves? I am willing to bet that spina bifida is lower in vegans due to their higher folate intake. Birth defects may be lower in vegans overall, but I cannot find any data on this.

Prevalence of Spina Bifida and Anencephaly During the Transition to Mandatory Folic Acid Fortification in the United States
 
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nikolabeacon

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We should always consider Gerson therapy diet (or Koch) but I think even he needed to include liver , thyroid supplement, and maybe in some cases small amounts of skimm milk products(i am not sure about that part in Gerson but Koch allowed milk....althought in some articles he is a huge advocate of vegan eating.)

Peat found his work valuable since Koch understood that its not point to concentrate on destroying a pathogen but to improve whole system. " Like Szent-Gyorgyi and Warburg, Koch's attention was on restoring the organism's resistance to disease, not on killing "the pathogen." "

So Peat didnt overlook Koch and Gerson and still recommends animal proteins, liver , gelatin...he actually concluded that thyroid along with liver health is primary thing for keeping organism's resistance while gerson and koch work are good at restoring it maybe. What do you think?


In many cases avoidance of animal foods except for maybe milk is necessary really but that doesn t mean everyone should be fine eating like that constantly.

Peat mentions importance of animal proteins(highly bioavailable B vitamins, vit A , Zn and other highly bioavailable minerals ) in the diet for healthy liver and conversion of T4 to T3 and for estrogen detox and for thermogenesis. Those and problems with bioavailability .And he mentions also that one of the most important things to avoid are anti-nutrients that are present actually in all plant foods even in many fruits. Of course exposure to various plant substances in moderate quantities is protective esspecially in certain cases and that is why combination is best and perfectly match with our physiology.

What do you think about this.?? @Travis

I am ready to stop eating animal foods and meat if there will be enough strong evidence that it is seriously harmfull and really not needed over the course of several generations.

We should not close this disscusion on what is right way to eat and how we could possiblly eat in the future , by obtaining many nutrients with new technologies.

With Eggshells, potato juice, fruits, green broths, sugar, honey, coconut oil , mushrooms, roots etc. One can have decent clean Peat vegan diet on the paper. But nutrients that still will be a concern are vit A, enough quality proteins, Zinc, other trace essential minerals and even other things which seems to have much less bioavailability than in animal foods. These things are essential for proper metabolism and hormone production.

Without liver and gelatin as a part of the Peat diet there could be possibility to exclude all meats and eggs from the diet but with eating liver and gelatin, avoiding meat does not make any sense to me. But there are other reasons connected with milk. That i explained in previous post.

I think that Most problems today with meat and animal foods eating are correlated with sick stressed animals, un-freshness(half rooten meat) and most importantly with eating only pure meat without other parts of the animal and milk which is very valuable when one eats meat.



Since you mentioned propaganda This part is about propaganda and politics which seems unfortunately are highly involved in all this ..And I find it also very suspicious that there are frequently some sensationalist news showing on main mainstream medias and sites about some misterious cases of centenarians usually from east that are "supposedly 100-120 years old and almost always vegans" with emphasis on vegetables and beans. USDA food phyramid type of brainwashing. ?
 

Jennifer

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No Jennifer I think you answered the question clearly and they were fair points.. We don't raise cows in my country as the environment is hot and it's not suitable for them.. We're more into goats, sheep, camels.. I have never seen free floating camels where I live.. They are always in farms but they go out a lot, especially afternoon until sunset.. They come by themselves to the farm without forcing.. I think they might be just used to that and they like to socialize with the other camels in the farm where they are guaranteed water, a lot of grass, and plenty of shades in a harsh environment like the desert.. The mating season for those camels begins in the winter because that's when they are mostly happy, I think. And the weather is good enough for the farmers to visit each other and see good opportunities for mating partners. Usually the male is chosen based on how strong and beautiful his ancestors are to ensure healthy strong offsprings. Some of the camels get pregnant and some don't and when the next winter comes, those pregnant camels bring little camels to the world who get milk from their mothers for about a year long, maybe less and maybe more. The plenty of milk in the winter time due to giving birth (BTW that's when the milk is at sweetest point) contributes to the festivity of the people in the winter because I think the milk is mostly appropriate in the cold weather of the desert where the sun doesn't produce enough vitamin D for their thick dark skin and the milk warms them up and provides them with enough fat-soluble vitamins, little thyroid, little progesterone, some estrogen probably, and a calcium mine. The winter, thus, is also a good mating period of humans in that part of the world. They seek human warmth and physicality and action occurs. So as you can see, camels are part of their history and DNA.

If the baby camel dies, the camel stops giving milk as they get sad. So sometimes people put some of the baby skin on a piece of wood in where she lives so she doesn't get very sad as she remembers her kid fondly and gives milk again. I don't know if that's deception or not but people also need her milk to live. After waning, camel boys are either trained to be in camel races, slaughtered for big feast for the tribe in special occasions like wedding, having a child, winning something like shooting competition etc., or raised until adulthood for mating purposes. The camels are so loved here that some people love them more than their children. Believe it or not, they even have names for them and ancestry trees for them.. In long travels, they sing to them to keep them entertained.

Most of the cow milk in my country come from commercial farms. So I am sure some of things you described apply to those commercial farms.

@Jennifer this is an example of the camel singing in travel :)


Thank you so much for taking the time to share your perspective and country's traditions with me, milk_lover. I appreciate getting to know what life is like for others, sort of like seeing life through their eyes. :)
 

Jennifer

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Very possible.
The other thing is vegan and vegetarian sperm quality is really poor in blue zone areas renowned for longevity. I'm guessing if the quality is this bad in the stress free blue zones then high stress environment like big cities it should correlate with vegan reproduction issues.
Food intake diet and sperm characteristics in a blue zone: a Loma Linda Study. - PubMed - NCBI
I was hoping there would be a detailed description of the diets because from what I understand, Seventh Day Adventists eat processed soy. I have a food preparation manual from back when I did RBTI and in it Carey Reams, a Seventh Day Adventist, recommends mock meats. Here are some examples of Loma Linda mock meats and processed foods...

Loma Linda America's leading brand of vegetarian and vegan foods

Here's a description of the brand recommended in my manual...

"Worthington Foods is the largest and most innovative U.S. company making meat analogs and vegetarian entrees. They pioneered the development of spun soy protein fibers in meat analogs in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Their Morningstar Farms line of soy-based meatless meats, introduced into supermarkets and grocery stores nationwide in 1975 and widely advertised, provided millions of Americans with their first experience of soy used in this way."

http://www.soyinfocenter.com/HSS/worthington_foods.php

Knowing what I know now from following Ray and Dr. Morse's work, if these foods are any indication of what the average Loma Linda vegan eats on a regular basis, I can understand there being sperm quality issues given all that processed soy. I believe the type of vegan diet matters because my hormone levels have only continued to improve since switching to a fruit-based vegan diet back in 2015, to the point that I was finally able to have a menstrual cycle without the use of supplemental hormones.

My biggest improvements happened when I dropped starch (potatoes) from my diet and went fruitarian at the end of January of 2016. I get regular blood work and my most recent test showed excellent numbers. My progesterone level is as high as it was when I was going through a bottle of Progest-E a week. At the time the test was done, I had been under a lot of stress caring full-time for my grandmother with advanced dementia and my dog with cancer so I'm curious what my hormone levels look like now.
 

Jennifer

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Yes and you also must consider a facts that when you keep animals and use their products you must have some kind of plan to control their numbers in some way and there is a problem with practical reasons and arguably making the more stresfull environment for the young calf by separating it from mother and feeding it concentrate food formula....sometimes stressfull life cause more suffering than death....So we must decide.

If you dont separate youngs from their mothers you wont have much milk left and you will need much greater number of animals. Well at least if you want to have dairy in (Peat prefered) diet ...you will have to slaughter young animals after they stop consuming colostrum ( . veal, lamb or goatling). to have enough milk all year round and to control the number of animals since cows need to have a calf every year to keep producing enough milk . Of course you dont need to eat that but there is no point in that since you are not sparing the life. What to do with all those calfs? Only reasonable options could be euthanasia but there is no point in doing that.

What some farms today are doing is actually worse for the young animals than to be slaughtered. They separate the young from their mothers and give them food concentrate or some other food formula with little milk that can not nourish them properly and that whole process is stresfull in itself and not practical for both animals and people and you will have problems with their numbers and food resources if you are not reducing their number.
In many cultures traditionaly only young and very old animals(which are of no use or productive anymore) are used for food(slaughtered) for those exact reasons.
Good points, nicolabeacon. :)
 

Jennifer

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This is bull****. Think of all the dead and deformed babies from drugs, vaccines, and pesticides, and nobody says anything.

Whenever something happens to a vegan the food industry rallies and fires-up the press. There are millions of vegans on this planet, most with healthy children.

You have to seriously ask yourself why this made the news.

Below is how many birth defects are attributed to a lack of folic acid.

View attachment 5699

Should we shame these mothers for not eating leaves? I am willing to bet that spina bifida is lower in vegans due to their higher folate intake. Birth defects may be lower in vegans overall, but I cannot find any data on this.

Prevalence of Spina Bifida and Anencephaly During the Transition to Mandatory Folic Acid Fortification in the United States
:+1
 

Travis

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I'll add that any health consequences from B₁₂ deficiency is identical to that from high methionine and folate deficiency.

The problem is high homocysteine. The amino acid methionine turns into homocysteine in the body, and both vitamin B₁₂ and folic acid are required to remethylate. They work through the same enzyme.

However, there is another way to rid the body of excess homocysteine, and that is through the enzyme cystathionine beta synthesase. A genetic defect in this enzyme can raise homocysteine levels to around 300 μg/L, as seen in these two case reports.

Homocystinuria: Challenges in diagnosis and management

A 30-year-old woman with homocystinuria from the same geographical region as the previous female patient [...] born with a weight of 4 kg following a normal pregnancy and labour. At three weeks of age, she developed seizures that remitted spontaneously. Developmental milestones were delayed. [...] Plasma amino acid analysis demonstrated elevated methionine and homocysteine levels, and a skeletal survey revealed osteoporosis. Ophthalmologic evaluation revealed dislocated lenses bilaterally. The diagnosis of homocystinuria was, thus, established. Pyridoxine and folate therapies were initiated.[...]
An analysis of the patient’s most recent quantitative plasma amino acids revealed normal cysteine value of 26 micromol/L (normal five to 45 micromol/L), elevated methionine levels of 555 micromol/L (normal 7 to 47 micromol/L) and homocysteine levels of 231 micromol/L (normal 0 to 17 micromol/L). Serum vitamin B12 and red cell folate levels were normal.

Things can be serious with such high levels of homocysteine.

Homocysteinuria is also related to cardiovascular issues. The high blood levels of this amino acid are toxic. This can be induced with high methionine loads:

Hyperhomocysteinemia After an Oral Methionine Load Acutely Impairs Endothelial Function in Healthy Adults
F2.large.jpg

In the general population, mild to moderate elevations in plasma homocysteine (15 to 35 micromol/L) are common and may be due to inherited enzyme variants and/or a relative deficiency of folate, vitamin B₁₂, or vitamin B₆, which are required for the normal metabolism of homocysteine.

So 15 to 35 micromol/L are considered "mild to moderate elevations". Here are some blood levels for vegans:

homocysteine.png


B-Vitamin Status and Concentrations of Homocysteine in Austrian Omnivores, Vegetarians and Vegans

As you can see the B12 is slightly lower and the homocysteine is slightly higher. The vegans have higher folate levels as you would expect.

So how do they induce homocysteinuria in monkeys? You know trying to lower B12 would take years:

Plasma homocyst(e)ine and folate. To induce moderate hyperhomocyst(e)inemia, eight monkeys were fed diet that was enriched in methionine, relatively depleted in folic acid, and free of choline.

They need to restrict choline and betaine because these tertiary amines are methyl donors and can methylate homocysteine themselves.

Plasma homocyst(e)ine increased from 4.06 microM when monkeys were fed normal diet to 10.66 microM when they were fed modified diet. As expected, plasma folate decreased when monkeys were fed modified diet.

So the fast track to homocysteinuria is high methionine, low choline, and low folate diet. Cobalamin deficiencies take time, because of enterohepatic recirculation and small amounts are absorbed very efficiently:

F1.large.jpg

Vitamin B12 is just one factor that influences homocysteine remethylation. Here are a few levels for vegans plotted against B12 levels.

homocysteine2.png

There is only a weak correlation, and none of the levels exceed 35 microg/L.

I am willing to bet that the birth defects caused by a high methionine diet low in folic acid and choline exceed any birth defects caused by a diet low in vitamin B12, it's just not newsworthy. Here is a quote from Ray Peat:

The biggest industries are usually able to keep public attention away from the harm they do.

Milk in context: allergies, ecology, and some myths

 
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Drareg

Drareg

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I was hoping there would be a detailed description of the diets because from what I understand, Seventh Day Adventists eat processed soy. I have a food preparation manual from back when I did RBTI and in it Carey Reams, a Seventh Day Adventist, recommends mock meats. Here are some examples of Loma Linda mock meats and processed foods...

Loma Linda America's leading brand of vegetarian and vegan foods

Here's a description of the brand recommended in my manual...

"Worthington Foods is the largest and most innovative U.S. company making meat analogs and vegetarian entrees. They pioneered the development of spun soy protein fibers in meat analogs in the late 1950s and early 1960s. Their Morningstar Farms line of soy-based meatless meats, introduced into supermarkets and grocery stores nationwide in 1975 and widely advertised, provided millions of Americans with their first experience of soy used in this way."

Worthington Foods

Knowing what I know now from following Ray and Dr. Morse's work, if these foods are any indication of what the average Loma Linda vegan eats on a regular basis, I can understand there being sperm quality issues given all that processed soy. I believe the type of vegan diet matters because my hormone levels have only continued to improve since switching to a fruit-based vegan diet back in 2015, to the point that I was finally able to have a menstrual cycle without the use of supplemental hormones.

My biggest improvements happened when I dropped starch (potatoes) from my diet and went fruitarian at the end of January of 2016. I get regular blood work and my most recent test showed excellent numbers. My progesterone level is as high as it was when I was going through a bottle of Progest-E a week. At the time the test was done, I had been under a lot of stress caring full-time for my grandmother with advanced dementia and my dog with cancer so I'm curious what my hormone levels look like now.

Keeping my carbs as mainly fruit has being a huge help to me also, starch definitely slows me down,I know the starch sources Peat mentions are not so bad when thyroid is doing ok but they still must require more energy to process,this is more notciable when hypo.
I don't get the fuss about getting carbs from mainly fruit on here,I think people may still be overeating carbs imo,overeating fruit may leave you feeling uncomfortable but with the right amount I'm not so sure that's the case.

How do you manage to keep your protein up while being fruitarian/ vegan?
 

nikolabeacon

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Keeping my carbs as mainly fruit has being a huge help to me also, starch definitely slows me down,I know the starch sources Peat mentions are not so bad when thyroid is doing ok but they still must require more energy to process,this is more notciable when hypo.
I don't get the fuss about getting carbs from mainly fruit on here,I think people may still be overeating carbs imo,overeating fruit may leave you feeling uncomfortable but with the right amount I'm not so sure that's the case.

How do you manage to keep your protein up while being fruitarian/ vegan?
Yes protein and Vit A, also Zn can be a bit harder to obtain in Vegan diet because of inhibiting actions of phytochemicals. Travis explained that part about homocysteine and b 12 very good but I think conversion from Carotene to vit A requires some b12?

"
Protein
deficiency has been shown to cause the liver to fail to
detoxify estrogen."

"A lack of vitamin A, and reduced circulation
resulting from the prostaglandin F2 (resulting from estrogen
action, or from uterine irritation) have been proposed as
causes of luteal failure."

"
There is no doubt that vitamin A is
essential for the conversion of cholesterol to progesterone;
its action can be competitively blocked by an excess of
carotene."

I am interested what @Travis thinks about this?
 
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Drareg

Drareg

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It's not impossible for a vegan to get the nutrients but it seems like the body ironically exerts more energy for example breaking down vitamin A and other nutrient phytate issues on top of this to the actual sourcing of foodstuffs,even the economics of the vegan diet requires more finance which is time in most cases.

I think Peat spoke about a time in the future when the ketoskeletons of proteins could be used and be a clean source protein.
 

Travis

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Jul 14, 2016
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What I think about vitamin A is that it's the must toxic vitamin.

It acts almost like a hormone. It binds with the nuclear retinol X receptor, goes straight inot the cell's nucleus, and upregualtes certain DNA-RNA transcription strands. Vitamin A increases bone and skin turnover.

The carotene cleavage enzyme splits β-carotene into two retinol (or retinaldehyde) molecules in the intestine. This is regulated, and a deficiency in vitamin A will increases the carotene cleavage enzyme.

I just checked the cronometer. A pound of kale has 1500% RDA for Vitamin A.

I think vitamin A is the last thing a vegan should worry about. It's only a problem when people eat mostly rice or mostly grains.

Zinc is worth mentioning. On the cronometer, I get about 80% zinc on a given day. This can of course be raised with high-zinc pumpkin and sunflower seeds, but that would be a good dose of PUFA.

Putting the boot on the other foot: how many non-vegans get over 100% magnesium, potassium, and vitamin K?

CRON-O-Meter: Track nutrition & count calories
 

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