managing

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There was another thread about whether it is DHEA or DHEA-s that is beneficial. A lot on there hypothesized it was -S. I am beginning to agree. I have always gotten weird symptoms--breathlessness, irritability, knee soreness--from topical DHEA. But I found some pure DHEA powder and have been taking that orally (thus, it primarily converts into DHEA-S by liver passage). And it has been great. The topical DHEA was Haidut's, but not the DMSO form, so not that, at least not for me.
 

Lokzo

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Ive crashed my E using just 2 drops of andro on its own. Knees pain has been so annoying I've been unable to have a good quality sleep. Libido dropped significantly as well. I don't even think of sex. Pansterone is on the way so I'll try using it together with andro.

Yep, same here, androsterone crashses my libido too. Zero arousal.
 

baccheion

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Yep, same here, androsterone crashses my libido too. Zero arousal.
Have you tried eating more? Do you also get cold extremities? What about taking something estrogenic or getting lab work done to verify effect on estrogen (, etc) level?
 
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Peatogenic

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Not that it proves anything, but I've been on Androsterone + Vit K for three months and never experienced libido crashing (3-5mg/day SFA). I will take a day or two off a week. Recently adding Pansterone, Vit D, and Vit A has improved libido even more. I still have the vitality feeling that Andro introduced into my life, but now I feel more grounded and less anxious about it.

I did have to start eating more once I started Andro, but I've also lost weight since starting it.
 
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haidut

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@haidut I did some research and saw cases of aromatase inhibitors potentially activating autoimmune diseases and liver damage. Not sure if this poses a concern for Androsterone and Pansterone.

Do you think these two are pointless to take if doing very small doses? Like a few mg of Andro a week? I've been doing 3mg/day (SFA) for almost 2-3 months with some days missed. I feel now that it's too much, but wasn't sure if lower dose is worse or pointless.

The only other supps I take are Glycine, Zinc, Proline, and all of the fat soluble vitamins.

Many aromatase inhibitors are toxic chemicals with known side effects. Aspirin and progesterone are also aromatase inhibitors and I have not seen anything on them causing autoimmune conditions. DHT, which potently lowers estrogen and into which andro converts, is actually being studied as treatment for autoimmune conditions like MS. Andro has also not been shown to have bad effects, so in low doses it should be ok.
Dihydrotestosterone as a Protective Agent in Chronic Experimental Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis. - PubMed - NCBI
 

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@haidut what was your favorite place to apply sfa andro

Shoulders, chest, upper arms, and legs are all good placed. Any place without hair would work well but close to the torso has more systemic effects.
 

Lokzo

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Have you tried eating more? Do you also get cold extremities? What about taking something estrogenic or getting lab work done to verify effect on estrogen (, etc) level?
I did eat heaps of sugar on this. Also, my extremeties are never cold, as my thyroid levels are quite high generally:
 

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I thought the musky manly Smell was my imagination.........interesting to hear others experience this smell aswell.


I drink a ton of water and still the smell happens
 
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Peatogenic

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Does anyone know if there could be a mechanism where estrogen would actually increase on Androsterone? Say, if it was too much estrogen removal and you also had a weak liver? I actually don't know if Androsterone pulls estrogen out of tissues or if the raising of DHT just slows its proliferation?
 

sebastian_r

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Does anyone know if there could be a mechanism where estrogen would actually increase on Androsterone? Say, if it was too much estrogen removal and you also had a weak liver? I actually don't know if Androsterone pulls estrogen out of tissues or if the raising of DHT just slows its proliferation?
I read that DHT & DHT derivitaves can lower SHBG, increase free estrogen and increase aromatization of testosterone. So while it cannot aromatise itself and maybe even has anti estrogenic properties, it can lead to stronger aromatisation of testosterone. Don't know if androsterone can work the same way.
 
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I read that DHT & DHT derivitaves can lower SHBG, increase free estrogen and increase aromatization of testosterone. So while it cannot aromatise itself and maybe even has anti estrogenic properties, it can lead to stronger aromatisation of testosterone. Don't know if androsterone can work the same way.

Ok, thank you
 
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Many aromatase inhibitors are toxic chemicals with known side effects. Aspirin and progesterone are also aromatase inhibitors and I have not seen anything on them causing autoimmune conditions. DHT, which potently lowers estrogen and into which andro converts, is actually being studied as treatment for autoimmune conditions like MS. Andro has also not been shown to have bad effects, so in low doses it should be ok.
Dihydrotestosterone as a Protective Agent in Chronic Experimental Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis. - PubMed - NCBI

By applying pure DHT in DMSO to the scrotum, would the net effect be:
- an aromatase inhibition boosting testosterone thanks to the negative feedback loop at the hypothalamus?
- a drop in testosterone as the body senses excess androgens?
 

haidut

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By applying pure DHT in DMSO to the scrotum, would the net effect be:
- an aromatase inhibition boosting testosterone thanks to the negative feedback loop at the hypothalamus?
- a drop in testosterone as the body senses excess androgens?

I see no reason to apply downstream hormones to the scrotum. Only precursors such as pregnenolone/DHEA make sense as the gonads can use them to synthesize T and DHT.
 
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I see no reason to apply downstream hormones to the scrotum. Only precursors such as pregnenolone/DHEA make sense as the gonads can use them to synthesize T and DHT.

That’s more for absorption purposes than conversion purposes, as scrotal skin is said to have the best absorption of all skin.
 

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Kunstruct

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DHT opposes estradiol and is increased by androsterone?

Would like to share some personal experience, I see this mentioned on a lot of forums "DHT will inhibit E2 completely, be careful"
While having high 1126 ng/l DHT without any kind of any hormone or any supplement at all, I had 60 pg/mL E2, which nobody can say that is low.
While having over 2500 ng/l DHT, going over the labs capability to measure, which is a massive DHT level, my E2 was 33 pg/mL
Not even this massive DHT level crushed my E2.
No hormone supplementation or any other supplementation to reach those levels.
 
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TheBeard

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Would like to share some personal experience, I see this mentioned on a lot of forums "DHT will inhibit E2 completely, be careful"
While having high 1126 ng/l DHT without any kind of any hormone or any supplement at all, I had 60 pg/mL E2, which nobody can say that is low.
While having over 2500 ng/l DHT, going over the labs capability to measure, which is a massive DHT level, my E2 was 33 pg/mL
Not even this massive DHT level crushed my E2.
No hormone supplementation or any other supplementation to reach those levels.

It’s two totally different things to have your hormones adjusting to each other endogenously, and having one modified by the introduction of another one exogenously.

In fact it’s fairly frequent to have high endogenous e2 at the same time as high endogenous DHT, as the DHT rises to counter the tissue effect of e2.

But don’t worry, it’s been repeatedly seen over and over both in studies and real life scenario that exogenous DHT lowers e2.

AAS boards are full of guys complaining of low e2 symptoms after Masteron, Winstrol or Proviron
 
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Would like to share some personal experience, I see this mentioned on a lot of forums "DHT will inhibit E2 completely, be careful"
While having high 1126 ng/l DHT without any kind of any hormone or any supplement at all, I had 60 pg/mL E2, which nobody can say that is low.
While having over 2500 ng/l DHT, going over the labs capability to measure, which is a massive DHT level, my E2 was 33 pg/mL
Not even this massive DHT level crushed my E2.
No hormone supplementation or any other supplementation to reach those levels.
Wouldn’t that prove that the higher your DHT the lower your E2? You stated that your e2 halved and DHT went up by 1,300 nanogram’s. I’m just curious how you reached such high levels of DHT
 

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