Long-term Androsterone

[Cameron]

I have tried every possible mixture, application area and dosage. Best application areas are shoulders, traps, wrist and backhand. You may find androsterone beneficial for the first days as a standalone product but I can guarantee you will crash soon afterwards. Best is to mix Pansterone and Androsterone or Androsterone with Gonadin. I cant handle dosages over 3mg of SFA Androsterone topically, DMSO Androsterone was even almost too strong with just as little as 1mg.

Nowadays I am only using 10 drops of Gonadin and thats my favourite without any negatives which I can take for months.

Awesome have you done blood work? And by crash you mean low libido joint pain type symptoms of low e right? Or something worse then that?

 

[Cameron]

Calcirol (VitD) also offers some potentation (at least for preg/prog/dhea) on transdermal route.

as @Steene already mentioned its very easy to crash your e2 with androsterone (its apparently very similar to aromasin in structure and function)

Yeah and aromasin is way more potent then arimidex good to be careful use low dose

 

[Steene]

Awesome have you done blood work? And by crash you mean low libido joint pain type symptoms of low e right? Or something worse then that?

No typical bad reactions like joint pain and low libido if anything then a healthier more controllable libido. Bad side effects were something like being weaker at strength training for example I couldn't do as many repetitions as some days before application and a worsened mood. I couldn't do any blood test until now because its just too expensive here in my country. I am planning to do a blood test after three months of continuous usage of Gonadin.

 

[MrBenjamin]

Is androsterone available over-the-counter in the U.S. ?

 

[golder]

I have tried every possible mixture, application area and dosage. Best application areas are shoulders, traps, wrist and backhand. You may find androsterone beneficial for the first days as a standalone product but I can guarantee you will crash soon afterwards. Best is to mix Pansterone and Androsterone or Androsterone with Gonadin. I cant handle dosages over 3mg of SFA Androsterone topically, DMSO Androsterone was even almost too strong with just as little as 1mg.

Nowadays I am only using 10 drops of Gonadin and thats my favourite without any negatives which I can take for months.

Interesting you get great results with Gonadin. 10 drops seems a lot? Where do you apply this? Which formula are you on, it seems like the ingredients have changed twice over the last few months and I'm intrigued which you got the most noticeable results from. Thanks.

 

[japanesedude]

I have tried every possible mixture, application area and dosage. Best application areas are shoulders, traps, wrist and backhand. You may find androsterone beneficial for the first days as a standalone product but I can guarantee you will crash soon afterwards. Best is to mix Pansterone and Androsterone or Androsterone with Gonadin. I cant handle dosages over 3mg of SFA Androsterone topically, DMSO Androsterone was even almost too strong with just as little as 1mg.

Nowadays I am only using 10 drops of Gonadin and thats my favourite without any negatives which I can take for months.

I am using SFA andro rightnowand it works fine but it can't compare with DMSO one.
the effects of both DMSO Andro and DMSO Pansterone were so strong. DMSO andro made my odor 'musky' and DMSO Pan had legit T boost feelings which I can not feel from SFA and MCT solvents.
When I stacked dmso andro with dmso pan,I felt like a king of this world lol
DMSO>SFA/Ethanol>MCT/Toco

 

[Zigzag]

Ive crashed my E using just 2 drops of andro on its own. Knees pain has been so annoying I've been unable to have a good quality sleep. Libido dropped significantly as well. I don't even think of sex. Pansterone is on the way so I'll try using it together with andro.

 

[Peatogenic]

Calcirol (VitD) also offers some potentation (at least for preg/prog/dhea) on transdermal route.

as @Steene already mentioned its very easy to crash your e2 with androsterone (its apparently very similar to aromasin in structure and function)

Would there be symptoms one could look for to know if they crash their "e2"? I've been using it a couple months at 3mg/day...(sfa). Only thing I've noticed lately is lower quality sleep, but don't know if they're related. I'm about to start using it with Pansterone.

 

[Steene]

Interesting you get great results with Gonadin. 10 drops seems a lot? Where do you apply this? Which formula are you on, it seems like the ingredients have changed twice over the last few months and I'm intrigued which you got the most noticeable results from. Thanks.

Gonadin is the only product I would recommend to use the full dosage (8 drops) orally because this is the effective one. I use 10 drops just to be on the save side in terms of absorption. The latest formulare is which I am using (not the diosgenin one).

 

[Steene]

I am using SFA andro rightnowand it works fine but it can't compare with DMSO one.
the effects of both DMSO Andro and DMSO Pansterone were so strong. DMSO andro made my odor 'musky' and DMSO Pan had legit T boost feelings which I can not feel from SFA and MCT solvents.
When I stacked dmso andro with dmso pan,I felt like a king of this world lol
DMSO>SFA/Ethanol>MCT/Toco

I am also starting to stink like an teenager again on this regime. The reaseon why you feel like a king is because with DMSO way more of the ingredients will reach your brain. If you want to replicate this to some extend use some of the SFA versions sublingually and topically.

 

[schultz]

Ive crashed my E using just 2 drops of andro on its own. Knees pain has been so annoying I've been unable to have a good quality sleep. Libido dropped significantly as well. I don't even think of sex. Pansterone is on the way so I'll try using it together with andro.

Someone asked Ray about this (he was specifically asking about Androsterone).

goodandevil: "I experienced profound joint pain and arthropathy, a very severe creaking from every joint. I felt as though i'd aged 60 years in a week. Others have had similar experiences. Dmso may potentiate the hormone excessively. Haidut claims this effect is from lowering estrogen excessively, i rather doubt that. Best Regards, James"

Ray: "Thank you. I doubt the low estrogen theory."

I know it's popular on the forum lately to assume low estrogen is the cause of several negative symptoms, but I think something else is going on here. I think the lowered cortisol theory is better than the low estrogen theory IMO.

 

[Peatogenic]

Someone asked Ray about this (he was specifically asking about Androsterone).

goodandevil: "I experienced profound joint pain and arthropathy, a very severe creaking from every joint. I felt as though i'd aged 60 years in a week. Others have had similar experiences. Dmso may potentiate the hormone excessively. Haidut claims this effect is from lowering estrogen excessively, i rather doubt that. Best Regards, James"

Ray: "Thank you. I doubt the low estrogen theory."

I know it's popular on the forum lately to assume low estrogen is the cause of several negative symptoms, but I think something else is going on here. I think the lowered cortisol theory is better than the low estrogen theory IMO.

The low cortisol theory would make the Pansterone addition even worse..

 

[Andman]

I know peat doubts the low estrogen theory, but that very same state can easily be induced simply by taking a high dose of any AI

 

[schultz]

I know peat doubts the low estrogen theory, but that very same state can easily be induced simply by taking a high dose of any AI

Yah, which makes things a bit more confusing, especially for a lay person like myself.

If an AI is lowering estrogen, and estrogen is closely connected with a persons cortisol (estrogen and cortisol seem to be connected), then they could also be lowering cortisol as well, essentially "exposing" a persons underlying inflammatory state. It's possible cortisol is keeping that inflammation in check and when it's lowered with pharmaceuticals, like an AI, the inflammation is realized. If someone took an AI and prednisone at the same time I imagine they wouldn't get joint pain.

We also don't know all the things that these aromatase inhibitors do. To pretend that they perform a single function in the body and, that is all, seems like wishful thinking, and yet I see publications using them as evidence to define what a low estrogen state is. Surely this is confounding. If arimidex causes liver problems, and we use it in a study to show the effects of low estrogen and the animal develops liver issues, do we say it's because of low estrogen or because of the arimidex? (that's just an example, I don't know if arimidex causes liver issues)

Ray doesn't seem to approve of AI's, and I doubt his reason is because they lower estrogen too much.

Nitric oxide is known to be involved in joint pain and I did find a paper which showed Arimidex actually increased nitric oxide (this was in female rats so I am not sure if it applies to humans). This may be specific to Arimidex or just a feature of suppressing aromatase in general. From what I understand, estrogen usually increases nitric oxide, so the action Arimidex is having in this particular study could be thought of as estrogenic. Nitric oxide seems to have a direct affect on joint pain.

Impact of the estrus cycle and reduction in estrogen levels with aromatase inhibition, on renal function and nitric oxide activity in female rats

"There was no difference in total NO production (from urinary and plasma nitrate + nitrite = NOX) between proestrus and diestrus but aromatase inhibition [via: Arimidex] resulted in increases in total NO production."

"Pharmacologic castration with aromatase inhibition leads to a marked increase in total and renal NOS."

"Using selective aromatase inhibition to reduce estradiol production in female rats, we were surprised to find several indices of increased NOS activity."

"Both 24h UNOXV and plasma NOX increased with aromatase inhibition, which clearly indicates increased total NO production since these rats were on a controlled low NOX diet."

 

[Peatogenic]

Yah, which makes things a bit more confusing, especially for a lay person like myself.

If an AI is lowering estrogen, and estrogen is closely connected with a persons cortisol (estrogen and cortisol seem to be connected), then they could also be lowering cortisol as well, essentially "exposing" a persons underlying inflammatory state. It's possible cortisol is keeping that inflammation in check and when it's lowered with pharmaceuticals, like an AI, the inflammation is realized. If someone took an AI and prednisone at the same time I imagine they wouldn't get joint pain.

We also don't know all the things that these aromatase inhibitors do. To pretend that they perform a single function in the body and, that is all, seems like wishful thinking, and yet I see publications using them as evidence to define what a low estrogen state is. Surely this is confounding. If arimidex causes liver problems, and we use it in a study to show the effects of low estrogen and the animal develops liver issues, do we say it's because of low estrogen or because of the arimidex? (that's just an example, I don't know if arimidex causes liver issues)

Ray doesn't seem to approve of AI's, and I doubt his reason is because they lower estrogen too much.

Nitric oxide is known to be involved in joint pain and I did find a paper which showed Arimidex actually increased nitric oxide (this was in female rats so I am not sure if it applies to humans). This may be specific to Arimidex or just a feature of suppressing aromatase in general. From what I understand, estrogen usually increases nitric oxide, so the action Arimidex is having in this particular study could be thought of as estrogenic. Nitric oxide seems to have a direct affect on joint pain.

Impact of the estrus cycle and reduction in estrogen levels with aromatase inhibition, on renal function and nitric oxide activity in female rats

"There was no difference in total NO production (from urinary and plasma nitrate + nitrite = NOX) between proestrus and diestrus but aromatase inhibition [via: Arimidex] resulted in increases in total NO production."

"Pharmacologic castration with aromatase inhibition leads to a marked increase in total and renal NOS."

"Using selective aromatase inhibition to reduce estradiol production in female rats, we were surprised to find several indices of increased NOS activity."

"Both 24h UNOXV and plasma NOX increased with aromatase inhibition, which clearly indicates increased total NO production since these rats were on a controlled low NOX diet."

Some person here mentioned that they had liver issues using Androsterone. Do you know if this has been reported elsewhere here?

 

[managing]

I am also starting to stink like an teenager again on this regime. The reaseon why you feel like a king is because with DMSO way more of the ingredients will reach your brain. If you want to replicate this to some extend use some of the SFA versions sublingually and topically.

I believe this (stink) to be a symptom of dehydration. I have found magnesium glycinate the most effective at resolving this.

 

[managing]

Someone asked Ray about this (he was specifically asking about Androsterone).

goodandevil: "I experienced profound joint pain and arthropathy, a very severe creaking from every joint. I felt as though i'd aged 60 years in a week. Others have had similar experiences. Dmso may potentiate the hormone excessively. Haidut claims this effect is from lowering estrogen excessively, i rather doubt that. Best Regards, James"

Ray: "Thank you. I doubt the low estrogen theory."

I know it's popular on the forum lately to assume low estrogen is the cause of several negative symptoms, but I think something else is going on here. I think the lowered cortisol theory is better than the low estrogen theory IMO.

I am inclined to agree. When I get a sore knee I also tend to get dry eyes (which I take to also be a low cortisol symptom)

 

[Steene]

I believe this (stink) to be a symptom of dehydration. I have found magnesium glycinate the most effective at resolving this.

I usually drink 3 litres per day and take magnesium glycinate/lysinate so I doubt that. It also wasnt that typical bacterial smell.

 

[Peatogenic]

@haidut I did some research and saw cases of aromatase inhibitors potentially activating autoimmune diseases and liver damage. Not sure if this poses a concern for Androsterone and Pansterone.

Do you think these two are pointless to take if doing very small doses? Like a few mg of Andro a week? I've been doing 3mg/day (SFA) for almost 2-3 months with some days missed. I feel now that it's too much, but wasn't sure if lower dose is worse or pointless.

The only other supps I take are Glycine, Zinc, Proline, and all of the fat soluble vitamins.

 

[Braveheart]

I believe this (stink) to be a symptom of dehydration. I have found magnesium glycinate the most effective at resolving this.

"I believe this (stink) to be a symptom of dehydration." I think there is something to this....