Jack Roe

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Whenever I see someone talk about materialism in such a manner first thing that comes to my mind is that a person is lacking a few IQ's or is ignorant or both. Of course that everything is matter or energy but I think your "dope" disabled you to be open and honest when it comes to understanding of things. We are not living under the glass bell. That's first.You learned that part from Peat because he can mentally contemplate that as a "material" evidence that it's like that. Oh Yes it's identical process but it just the the thing that we have no clue(and will never have) how to measure various SYNERGYSTIC influences/impacts from our environment and whole cosmos(synergy between nutrition, lifestyle, all environment,sun, stars, planets etc). So in "theory" yes everything is material but it's just the thing that synergystic circumstances and personal limitations from circumstances will never allow us to fragmentize all synergystic processes/impacts and interactions into single reactions and molecules. And when you can't do that you must call it "spiritual" or Devine (imposible to understand and comperhend) and that also is just one proof that ancients(traditions ) were much closer to Truth about Cosmos(Devine law or God) than today's Science(and Peat theory).Ray Peat A Thomas Kuhn Reader?

Most Scientists 'can't Replicate Studies By Their Peers'

My being a staunch materialist has little to do with Ray Peat. Your ideas about honesty are _quaint_ and _positively charming_. I'm not sure how much I trust someone who can't spell "divine," tho. Spiritualism is a sort of cutesy toy for laypeople who don't want to face the stark reality, which is material. So, you know, I can see why you don't, because you seem to think people are obligated to be "honest," whatever that means, which means that you have an investment in a supernatural thing, to wit, an obligation. Obligations are obviously neurological/biochemical structures; an obligation to be honest exists nowhere but in your nerves. And you seem _very convinced_ that this sort of structure is necessary, even tho it isn't. Materialism is not about "reactions" or "molecules," it does not even demand that there is some Grand Theory of Everything that we can use to predict everything. But materialism is certainly a check against hocus pocus, that is, incorporeal, or immaterial things, which are, to give you a list: obligations (be honest!), rights, wrongs, uses, inheritances, trusts, genera, species, good/evil spirits, souls, etc. But these things, of course, are material and tangible, because everything is: as I said, they exist in the nerves. Lewin covers this in his early text on pharmacology, in the section on mescaline, tho I think he goes a bit hog-wild, by saying there is a controversy as to whether these nerve-entities 'exist' in any sense, and that he decides they do. Of course, he then goes on to talk about Christianity, Ezekiel, iirc.

I came to this Peat fellow because I was reading about omega6 fats in general, and he seems to have a suggestion about them---I certainly know that until I went out of my way to get more than I was getting, I didn't have any chronic pain, and since I have had chronic pain! So, you know, that is my N=1 story! Being a materialist means that I am _fairly certain_ that there is some material cause for my pain, it is not that I have angered the Cosmos through my horrible dishonesty, etc. etc. Not that I am sure how being a materialist is dishonest; also, all of the people I know with high IQs are pretty good at lying, but, you know, YMMV. Obstinate obligation tends to be for those who are mediocre at best, in my experience.

Also, on the topic of the thread, people who won't be dishonest tend to be perceived as unsociable; if you're in a group setting, people do not want other people to be honest, they want them to be copacetic. People who are unfailingly honest tend to be thought of as rude, and while maybe it is not high quality, replicable research, I think it's most people's experience: if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all, which is at least halfway to being dishonest.

As for ancient traditions, they were _really great_ because they acknowledges that it is 100% acceptable to own other people like cattle, amirite?
 

yerrag

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One of my favorite people in the world says LSD is illegal because it makes people too happy, and happy people don't need law =].
He's a law professor, of course ;)
If I micro-dose LSD, might work. If I mega-dose, it may not. How do you use it?
 

Xisca

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Of course everything is material even what looks not! BUT the point could be HOW we aprehend things. Some cannot with only neocortex.
What we use for another sort of intelligence is another part of the brain, and spirituality comes from this. Intuitions are also a very Quick processing of informacions at a speed neocortex alone cannot.

What is right is that some people, traditions etc, were better than most of us at this. They know how to use it and considere it as material...
 

Jack Roe

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If I micro-dose LSD, might work. If I mega-dose, it may not. How do you use it?

Of course everything is material even what looks not! BUT the point could be HOW we aprehend things. Some cannot with only neocortex.
What we use for another sort of intelligence is another part of the brain, and spirituality comes from this. Intuitions are also a very Quick processing of informacions at a speed neocortex alone cannot.

What is right is that some people, traditions etc, were better than most of us at this. They know how to use it and considere it as material...


Some traditional societies, like north american indians, lasted a long time, but even their duration is not much compared with the duration of more stable species, like our primates relatives, insects, plants, etc. And most traditional societies are unstable either in that they are constantly shifting, like "western" societies, or they are unstable in that they are pretty easy for "western" societies to conquer. So it is likely, I think, that humans are just not a very resilient species. A destruction species, sure, but not resilient. Our "intuitions" are not that great, either---and most "spiritual traditions" were developed on the context of maintaining caste societies, the intuition being that some people should rule others like cattle.

Some of the neuroimaging studies on LSD suggest that it increases the cross-connectivity of the brain, and in my view that may reduce the influence of these "intuitions" because more of them will feed into the "neocortex," as you call it, for rational processing, rather than knee-jerk reactions.
 

Xisca

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Well when you look at young people behaviour, you understand why elders try to keep the stability animals have! Sometimes you need to DO things a certain time before you understand the Reasons Why.

I was not thinking about India for spirituality but the caste form was originaly their school system : grow up looking.

About animals : I do have this specialty and they are resilient when they can freely use their autonomic nervous system, AND WE ARE ABLE TO DO THE SAME.

The only difference is that our neocortex is strong and has difficulties to let the ANS do its job. The original aim of spirituality was to help us keep our conection with our ANS even when we use our cortex. We need artefacts to lure the cortex. Using the power of imagination is a major tool, through dreaming, art, etc. And believing in something that does not exist has been the major way humans have succeeded all over the world in using imagination for regulating their physiological systems.
 

sladerunner69

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Hard to say. Women are very social by nature and they are full of estrogen. They appear to need the social support.
I have read that high testosterone can cause one to want to be isolated, but it's all debatable. One's worldviews can easily change how social a person is.
It would be great to be social if one has a healthy family to be around and healthy people; a happy community who have similar views and strive towards the same goals.
However when one lives in a degenerate society, where there are no common interests, it probably is better for you to be separated from them.

Many scientists and other great minds have accomplished much when alone.

Women don't actually have higher estrogen, that is a common medical myth that has been taught by doctors and in schools for decades but really just serves to legitimize estrogen as a therapy and as a product.

In reality women have higher progesterone. This helps explain why they tend to live longer-even under natural circumstances, as well as less pattern baldness.
Women do have high estrogen levels during pregnancy, which seems to be the root of this awful notion that estrogen is a "female" hormone. Of course some grad school scientists, looking for ways to get their next promotion in the industry, observed this, and almost without further examination or testing assumed that estrogen must be good for women and began working on new studies that would justify an estrogen product. This made many people wealthy, and caused many more people to die early from tumors, heart attacks, or any other degenerative illness.

Biologically speaking however, women even have lower estrogen, because men have higher testosterone levels and tend to forego any prudence into inhibiting aromatase through diet or supplements. Men tend to have both higher estrogen and testosterone than women who are not taking any form of supplementary estrogen.
 

Jack Roe

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Well when you look at young people behaviour, you understand why elders try to keep the stability animals have! Sometimes you need to DO things a certain time before you understand the Reasons Why.

I was not thinking about India for spirituality but the caste form was originaly their school system : grow up looking.

About animals : I do have this specialty and they are resilient when they can freely use their autonomic nervous system, AND WE ARE ABLE TO DO THE SAME.

The only difference is that our neocortex is strong and has difficulties to let the ANS do its job. The original aim of spirituality was to help us keep our conection with our ANS even when we use our cortex. We need artefacts to lure the cortex. Using the power of imagination is a major tool, through dreaming, art, etc. And believing in something that does not exist has been the major way humans have succeeded all over the world in using imagination for regulating their physiological systems.


The problem is that no other species needs to do this. Sure, elders in many societies, especially animist societies, try to draw analogies with animals through stories, often to inculcate some sort of decent way of living in harmony with their environment. But animals don't need to do this; where humans can retain their "autonomic nervous system" behaviour through stories that constrain them to doing what the "ANS" as you call it would do, animals simply use their ANS and are far more stable.

I think it would be nice if humans really were a well-evolved species, but they're "well-evolved" in the sense that an explosion is well-evolved. Very energetic, but not likely to last very long. And to eke out what existence we do maintain, you're right, we need use all of these lures. But I suspect that this is not entirely without problem, because then your breeding process is going to select for creatures who are not able to perceive reality accurately; there will be a sort of "snowball effect" where degeneracy becomes an advantage.

It depends how you define "success"---I look at how humans live, and I am not impressed. Of course, a lot of them are impressed---but if we can agree that long-term stability is a desirable trait, humans don't fit the bill. Bacteria, fungi, plants are better evolved.

ADDENDUM:

It also seems to me that none of the most successful species like bacteria or plants "worry" about loneliness. It's a big in our hardware, not much else, IMO. The real question for the future is if we retain the bug or use genetic engineering to deal with it.
 
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yerrag

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Jack, for all your critique of humanity, you need to appreciate still your own being and not practice an unappreciation of your own kind, and of your own being. You need not find solace in embracing that which you don't find in your own species. Self-loathing is not even a characteristic of other life forms. Have peace and enjoy being you.
 
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One of my favorite people in the world says LSD is illegal because it makes people too happy, and happy people don't need law =].
He's a law professor, of course ;)
He should stick to law...
 

Xisca

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Jack, even at just scientific level you are not accurate and I didn't make myself understand. Evolution does not remove anything from before, but add layers.
1st came ANS.
2nd came limbic.
3rd only, is cortex.
Any being with a limbic brain cannot any more live in lonelyness, as we need coregulation at ANS level. Sorry we are no more crocodiles and we would not eat our babies coming out of their egg!
Then the cortex when very evolved, can Block all the slower reactions of the more ancient brains, and this is what we just have to care to not do.
We do not Block our Quick reactions, and we should let them cool down at their rythm, slower.

Perceive reality accurately?
You do when you relate to body experience and when you lure the cortex with imagination!
So the reverse of what you thought. Just because Who knows that the nervous system does not make any diference between reality and imagination! ?
Thus no, there is no problem, and no bugs either.
 

BibleBeliever

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Women don't actually have higher estrogen, that is a common medical myth that has been taught by doctors and in schools for decades but really just serves to legitimize estrogen as a therapy and as a product.

In reality women have higher progesterone. This helps explain why they tend to live longer-even under natural circumstances, as well as less pattern baldness.
Women do have high estrogen levels during pregnancy, which seems to be the root of this awful notion that estrogen is a "female" hormone. Of course some grad school scientists, looking for ways to get their next promotion in the industry, observed this, and almost without further examination or testing assumed that estrogen must be good for women and began working on new studies that would justify an estrogen product. This made many people wealthy, and caused many more people to die early from tumors, heart attacks, or any other degenerative illness.

Biologically speaking however, women even have lower estrogen, because men have higher testosterone levels and tend to forego any prudence into inhibiting aromatase through diet or supplements. Men tend to have both higher estrogen and testosterone than women who are not taking any form of supplementary estrogen.
Very interesting
 

Xisca

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Women do have high estrogen levels during pregnancy
it seemed to me they have 1000 times more progesterone than when not pregnant!
the real cause of the use of estrogen seems to be that they can make more money of it because it can be synthetic and bioidentical, whereas synthetic progesterone is toxic. So they cannot make money with natural progesterone that much!
 
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haidut

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Any ideas for a supplement/labchem routine to turn a lonely self-absorbed wealthy lady and her rat into a loving generous self-less Great Lady and her rat? (She is 61. The rat is the same relative rat age).

(not joking)

Loneliness/selfishness is highly correlated with serotonin. Any method for lowering/opposing serotonin should help - i.e. gelatin, BCAA, less starch, maybe even some cypro/famotidine.
 

REOSIRENS

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Chronic stress really makes people self absorbed on their own suffering... This makes people looking selfish...but deep down they are just tired and try to protect themselves from depleting more Cellular energy helping people or making sacrifices for others.. I am not saying they are right when they think that way...

Just saying when individual faces inescapable stress he/she will reach a point where he/she no longer feel mentally strong(low ATP) to save(protect) or care for others


High chronic stress makes you not see good in people... And look to world as a cold horrible place where you need to be mean because no one cares about you...


And yes ... Loneliness and lack of love are violently stressful...
 

Makrosky

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Chronic stress really makes people self absorbed on their own suffering... This makes people looking selfish...but deep down they are just tired and try to protect themselves from depleting more Cellular energy helping people or making sacrifices for others.. I am not saying they are right when they think that way...

Just saying when individual faces inescapable stress he/she will reach a point where he/she no longer feel mentally strong(low ATP) to save(protect) or care for others


High chronic stress makes you not see good in people... And look to world as a cold horrible place where you need to be mean because no one cares about you...


And yes ... Loneliness and lack of love are violently stressful...
+1
 
L

lollipop

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Chronic stress really makes people self absorbed on their own suffering... This makes people looking selfish...but deep down they are just tired and try to protect themselves from depleting more Cellular energy helping people or making sacrifices for others.. I am not saying they are right when they think that way...

Just saying when individual faces inescapable stress he/she will reach a point where he/she no longer feel mentally strong(low ATP) to save(protect) or care for others


High chronic stress makes you not see good in people... And look to world as a cold horrible place where you need to be mean because no one cares about you...


And yes ... Loneliness and lack of love are violently stressful...
This. In particular when you explain the correlation between chronic high stress and in turn what people and the world look like to you!! They recently did this study (which we all know) that happiness or lack thereof, contributes to health:

Happiness can contribute to physical health

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170717100550.htm
 

Regina

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Chronic stress really makes people self absorbed on their own suffering... This makes people looking selfish...but deep down they are just tired and try to protect themselves from depleting more Cellular energy helping people or making sacrifices for others.. I am not saying they are right when they think that way...

Just saying when individual faces inescapable stress he/she will reach a point where he/she no longer feel mentally strong(low ATP) to save(protect) or care for others


High chronic stress makes you not see good in people... And look to world as a cold horrible place where you need to be mean because no one cares about you...


And yes ... Loneliness and lack of love are violently stressful...
Phew!
 

Nikki

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Chronic stress really makes people self absorbed on their own suffering... This makes people looking selfish...but deep down they are just tired and try to protect themselves from depleting more Cellular energy helping people or making sacrifices for others.. I am not saying they are right when they think that way...

Just saying when individual faces inescapable stress he/she will reach a point where he/she no longer feel mentally strong(low ATP) to save(protect) or care for others


High chronic stress makes you not see good in people... And look to world as a cold horrible place where you need to be mean because no one cares about you...


And yes ... Loneliness and lack of love are violently stressful...
+2
Migraines can make you seem like a sociopath more or less. "No I won't go to your birthday dinner, or meet you for lunch, or call you... and don't you dare ring my doorbell." When I feel good I am helpful and VERY social. I still need my alone time, but I have to be in a group or talk to a few people every day or I don't feel right.
 

DaveFoster

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They all had Aspergers syndrome. Einstein was saved slightly since he had Serbian wife. :) and he loved Italian pasta and Serbian bread. And they didnt develop actually anything usefull or practical but its because they were detached from traditional knowledge. Also @pimpnametheraypeat is right about Tesla
He was probably involved in development of weapons and some harmfull technologies including x rays, as many other scientist were at that time , even his most mainstream inventions are actually not "his" at all. It was just most practical idea and solution at that time and its only a modification of already existing ideas. He was very good paid for that and he was very rich and ended in poverty for exactly the same reasons when he promised some big inventions but didnt realized them . This guy explains it very well.

He was also involved in eugenics movement.




Sorry to dissapoint other meta 200 IQ predictions and understanding of Biology but "Peating" will not stop aging and it will not increase your longevity and IQ obviously since it couldn' t solve even your poor digestion and liver health, sky high Serotonin and hair loss and poor cooperation abilities. Although Peat is noting better at cooperation with other biologists and scientists even on daily progesterone and anti serotonin drugs .it actually increases his Sarcasm. Dont forget to put your high Serotonin "lol" in the reply.

Traditional knowldge about commune and family is good to start to understand cooperation.
Without Honesty there is NO Integrity and later cooperation.
I've never heard Peat's sarcasm, not once. He does have some tongue in cheek comments though, but never sarcasm.

Chronic stress really makes people self absorbed on their own suffering... This makes people looking selfish...but deep down they are just tired and try to protect themselves from depleting more Cellular energy helping people or making sacrifices for others.. I am not saying they are right when they think that way...

Just saying when individual faces inescapable stress he/she will reach a point where he/she no longer feel mentally strong(low ATP) to save(protect) or care for others


High chronic stress makes you not see good in people... And look to world as a cold horrible place where you need to be mean because no one cares about you...


And yes ... Loneliness and lack of love are violently stressful...


This. In particular when you explain the correlation between chronic high stress and in turn what people and the world look like to you!! They recently did this study (which we all know) that happiness or lack thereof, contributes to health:

Happiness can contribute to physical health

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170717100550.htm


+2
Migraines can make you seem like a sociopath more or less. "No I won't go to your birthday dinner, or meet you for lunch, or call you... and don't you dare ring my doorbell." When I feel good I am helpful and VERY social. I still need my alone time, but I have to be in a group or talk to a few people every day or I don't feel right.
+5

Authority must be supplanted with confidence through superb individual health.
 

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