Levothyroxine Causing Hairloss

[marsaday]

Do you have hashi’s?

If so this explains why the tsh can be high and low.

If you feel well at 550 per week just stick with it and don’t be to guided by the tsh

The ft 4 and 3 are more important

To work out if cortisol or thyroid is the problem you look at a few things.

First thyroid bloods show the levels in the blood. If good and in balance but tsh is shut down it can indicate a cortisol issue.

Take the morning temp on waking and if low this can mean not enough thyroid

Take set temps at late morning and mid afternoon. If these are steady over a period of time it means all ok but if up and down it means the adrenals are struggling

Hashis does make it harder to get balanced. You are best to carry out your own experiments and tests to see what addition or reduction can do for you. There is no way a monthly visit to a doctor is going to help get you where you need to be.

Monitor temps and blood pressure and hr and these will help guide you over the months with new changes you make. I now can see if I go on to much t4 my bp goes up.

Once you get a better balance you can drop the monitoring as often. I never take temps anymore and just do bp in bed at nighttime.

 

[GreenEyedBlonde]

I do take 100 mcg at one time. I will try splitting it into 4 doses. The tablet of Levoxyl is oddly shaped; I was able to break it in half yesterday but it crumbled. I just got a 90 day supply so I will get them in 25mcg later. I agree about excipients. This formulation does not have the lactose or the povidone but has the typical excipients for most levos such as croscarmellose, etc. if the splitting doesn’t help, I will add in the T3 after getting my labs done. Thanks for the references.

FWIW, my temp upon awakening this morning was 96.4F.

Very cool. I am sincerely sorry to hear about the doc experience. I was in a similar situation and decided to save my own life. It took a couple years to figure out it was me or nobody.

It may be worth trying to find nu naturals gelatin(vs collagen?) and adding a couple tablespoons to your drinks. I notice a distinct difference in how i feel with more protein. Ive been tracking temps for a month and my temps suffer if i dont eat protein with my first two meals. I feel considerably more "present" with protein and carb for my first meals. Unfortunately i still have to eat frequently to hit my calorie number and to stay warm

Can you tolerate shrimp or cod/sole?

I also hate liver, Ill suffer once a week or bring one single bite to have with coffee at work. Its worth it to feel better :). I used to choke it down.

Yes, I can eat cod or sole but always concerned about farmed being labeled as fresh caught. I tend to eat only halibut from time to time in place of the salmon I used to eat. I will check out the nu naturals gelatin, thanks. I’m just finishing up a container of Vital Proteins. Being able to use the gelatin would really help with my protein intake.

 

[GreenEyedBlonde]

Do you have hashi’s?

If so this explains why the tsh can be high and low.

If you feel well at 550 per week just stick with it and don’t be to guided by the tsh

The ft 4 and 3 are more important

To work out if cortisol or thyroid is the problem you look at a few things.

First thyroid bloods show the levels in the blood. If good and in balance but tsh is shut down it can indicate a cortisol issue.

Take the morning temp on waking and if low this can mean not enough thyroid

Take set temps at late morning and mid afternoon. If these are steady over a period of time it means all ok but if up and down it means the adrenals are struggling

Hashis does make it harder to get balanced. You are best to carry out your own experiments and tests to see what addition or reduction can do for you. There is no way a monthly visit to a doctor is going to help get you where you need to be.

Monitor temps and blood pressure and hr and these will help guide you over the months with new changes you make. I now can see if I go on to much t4 my bp goes up.

Once you get a better balance you can drop the monitoring as often. I never take temps anymore and just do bp in bed at nighttime.

Yes, I have Hashi’s. My BP run 120-130/80 or so. Temps usually upon arising 97 or below. Pulse in 50’s. I will monitor my temps during day as you suggested.

My annual T4 is usually middle of range or slightly higher. Doc refuses to test T3 - says it’s useless. He looked askance when I asked for rT3. No, I don’t feel well on 550 mcg - still hypo symptoms but with such a low TSH, he won’t raise my dose. I asked about a possible conversion issue and he just gave me a simple ‘no’ and refused to discuss.

Since joining this forum I do feel more empowered to attack these issues without the blessing of my Endo. I will read up on cortisol to better understand its impact on my hypo symptoms (fatigue, hair loss, bloating, insomnia, dry/scaly skin, feeling hot all the time, etc.). Thanks for all your suggestions.

 

[marsaday]

I think people with hashis have a real problem with adrenal stress. This is caused by the bodies reaction to the inflammation it experiences as a result of the reaction to certain food stuffs. So the body is constantly having to fight this inflammation and it will use cortisol to do this. This is tiring for the body and impacts on many hormone areas. So very often just giving thyroid medication is not going to be the cure all.

Reading about the topic is important and finding out what helps other people. Diet seems to be a biggie as i am sure you know.

The best advise i can give is to see yourself as your own doctor and approach your health as a new part time job. The aim is to try and feel much better for the many years of life you have ahead of you. Don't hand this job over to a doctor to do, you can do a better job.

You need to be quite scientific about it all and keep a proper diary. Make ONE adjustment at a time and give it a few days or weeks to play out. So, for example, if you make a specific diet change only do this one thing and don't throw in a vitamin or adjust your T4 dose. You want to see how these small changes work out and if they make any difference. Luckily i don't have the diet issues or hashis and so i will only make changes to T4/T3/progesterone/vitamin D and that is about it.

Over time i have learnt a lot. I now don't take ANY T3. Just T4. I take less T4 as well. I have just discovered this summer that i need much less progesterone in the summer months. So i was down to 1.5mg per day in the summer. As soon as late august comes around i notice i start to feel more tired and so the progesterone has gone up to 4.5mg per day and all is great. The drop in sunlight has a big impact on cortisol production and so i need more progesterone as this converts into cortisol.

I could only work all this out because i am strict with how i adapt my meds. So this summer i ended up trialling what a drop in progesterone would do. It took a few days, but i started to notice health improvements (better energy really). I then added back in some progesterone and the reaction was a negative one so this confirmed what i was thinking ie, i didn't need more progesterone but less. It can take a few weeks to work all this stuff out.

So this is a good example of what is involved and there is no way a doc could really help me with all this.

There is so much to try out though so don't get over whelmed. The likely time frame to really get some better balance is going to be 2-3 years. In that time you will see progress, but it will be slow and steady improvements with set backs on the way. The alternative though is to listen to a doc and go away with a new script or some new vitamin and just suffer for year after year.

Also see feeling ill as part of the process and celebrate when you purposely make your self feel even worse. This means you now have control over your condition and are on the way to really understanding what is making your metabolism work or clog up. An example of this could be taking vitamin D. Too much can make my system slow down or clog up. Initially i didn't know it was the vitamin D and i am pulling my hair out thinking i need more thyroid etc. Anyway try dropping back on the vitamin D and see how this works out. Do you improve ? I yes hold for a bit and then test it out again. Hit yourself with big doses of vitamin D and see if you become ill again. If you do you have just worked out what level of Vitamin D works against you. Loads of people are out there taking this supplement or that and they don't realise they are making themselves ill. The same can be said with food and this is more relevant for a hashis patient.

So hopefully i i have given you some ideas how to move forward. It is doable, but it will take time.

 

[GreenEyedBlonde]

I think people with hashis have a real problem with adrenal stress. This is caused by the bodies reaction to the inflammation it experiences as a result of the reaction to certain food stuffs. So the body is constantly having to fight this inflammation and it will use cortisol to do this. This is tiring for the body and impacts on many hormone areas. So very often just giving thyroid medication is not going to be the cure all.

Reading about the topic is important and finding out what helps other people. Diet seems to be a biggie as i am sure you know.

The best advise i can give is to see yourself as your own doctor and approach your health as a new part time job. The aim is to try and feel much better for the many years of life you have ahead of you. Don't hand this job over to a doctor to do, you can do a better job.

You need to be quite scientific about it all and keep a proper diary. Make ONE adjustment at a time and give it a few days or weeks to play out. So, for example, if you make a specific diet change only do this one thing and don't throw in a vitamin or adjust your T4 dose. You want to see how these small changes work out and if they make any difference. Luckily i don't have the diet issues or hashis and so i will only make changes to T4/T3/progesterone/vitamin D and that is about it.

Over time i have learnt a lot. I now don't take ANY T3. Just T4. I take less T4 as well. I have just discovered this summer that i need much less progesterone in the summer months. So i was down to 1.5mg per day in the summer. As soon as late august comes around i notice i start to feel more tired and so the progesterone has gone up to 4.5mg per day and all is great. The drop in sunlight has a big impact on cortisol production and so i need more progesterone as this converts into cortisol.

I could only work all this out because i am strict with how i adapt my meds. So this summer i ended up trialling what a drop in progesterone would do. It took a few days, but i started to notice health improvements (better energy really). I then added back in some progesterone and the reaction was a negative one so this confirmed what i was thinking ie, i didn't need more progesterone but less. It can take a few weeks to work all this stuff out.

So this is a good example of what is involved and there is no way a doc could really help me with all this.

There is so much to try out though so don't get over whelmed. The likely time frame to really get some better balance is going to be 2-3 years. In that time you will see progress, but it will be slow and steady improvements with set backs on the way. The alternative though is to listen to a doc and go away with a new script or some new vitamin and just suffer for year after year.

Also see feeling ill as part of the process and celebrate when you purposely make your self feel even worse. This means you now have control over your condition and are on the way to really understanding what is making your metabolism work or clog up. An example of this could be taking vitamin D. Too much can make my system slow down or clog up. Initially i didn't know it was the vitamin D and i am pulling my hair out thinking i need more thyroid etc. Anyway try dropping back on the vitamin D and see how this works out. Do you improve ? I yes hold for a bit and then test it out again. Hit yourself with big doses of vitamin D and see if you become ill again. If you do you have just worked out what level of Vitamin D works against you. Loads of people are out there taking this supplement or that and they don't realise they are making themselves ill. The same can be said with food and this is more relevant for a hashis patient.

So hopefully i i have given you some ideas how to move forward. It is doable, but it will take time.

I want to thank you for the time and effort you put into your information, suggestions, and explanations. I feel like I have a better handle now on what is happening related to my hypothyroidism and possible adrenal issues. I have started breaking up my 100mcg Levoxyl into 4 pieces and taking them throughout the day with food. I have also begun monitoring my temps which will give me a baseline to judge progress with the changes I slowly implement. I hope not to have to add in T3 but will do whatever it takes. I have started to reread Dr. B’s book with new eyes, so to speak. So grateful for this forum and members like you...

 

[Arrade]

Hashimoto's Protocol

I would read books as well.

Frankly I don’t understand how supplementing T3 would make up for the suppression of the calcitonin hormone.
I was getting hairloss while my T3 from conversion was in range, I didn’t check reverse T3 however.

I’ve been following a lot of Danny Roddy but the ignorance about the calcitonin which opposed parathyroid somewhat concerns me.
Also I don’t see a lot of mention of people coming off T3 supplement

 

[GutFeeling]

Sure your doctor buy t4 from deepweb.

 

[Arrade]

Sure your doctor buy t4 from deepweb.

Nope, seeing as I picked it up from a pharmacy and there are a million ways to get it not the deep web.

I haven’t seen evidence of people adding T3 and mpb reversing

 

[GreenEyedBlonde]

Nope, seeing as I picked it up from a pharmacy and there are a million ways to get it not the deep web.

I haven’t seen evidence of people adding T3 and mpb reversing

What about reversing hair loss in women?

 

[Andman]

not sure why youre so anxious to try t3, which is like the most peaty of the peaty substances but eating t4 like candy?

 

[Arrade]

What about reversing hair loss in women?

Is it the mpb pattern observed in women?
Like the line along the scalp?
I don’t think it will help

If your hair is thin or shedding a lot maybe

 

[GreenEyedBlonde]

Is it the mpb pattern observed in women?
Like the line along the scalp?
I don’t think it will help

If your hair is thin or shedding a lot maybe

Yes, like mpb, receding along hairline.

 

[Arrade]

Yes, like mpb, receding along hairline.

Going by the ivory dome theory, that kind of recession is likely caused by calcification of soft tissue and the arteries that feed blood to the hair follicles.
Idk how suppressive T3 is, but with T4 you will be suppressing calcitonin which controls calcium levels in the blood.

I think you would have to stop using T4 and possibly not use T3 for that hormone to not be suppressed.

 

[Luckytype]

Going by the ivory dome theory, that kind of recession is likely caused by calcification of soft tissue and the arteries that feed blood to the hair follicles.
Idk how suppressive T3 is, but with T4 you will be suppressing calcitonin which controls calcium levels in the blood.

I think you would have to stop using T4 and possibly not use T3 for that hormone to not be suppressed.

Would you link her two 2 or three of your sources for this so she(and the rest of us) can read more on your theories

 

[Arrade]

Would you link her two 2 or three of your sources for this so she(and the rest of us) can read more on your theories

Starting here:

@Joeyd
#2: The Ivory Dome Theory of Pattern Hair Loss
In short, Hoelzel observed that bald cadavers had calcified "solid ivory" scalps, while specimens with luxurious hair contained no such anomaly.[5]
The Baldness Field

The Ultimate Hair Loss Flowchart: Why We Lose Our Hair

Hair loss from DHT/Steroids? Think again...very interesting topic...

 

[Lucas]

Woman have flat foreheads and don’t go bald like man.

The man that don’t have baldness later in life have flat foreheads, rather than the sloped forehead that is common on bald man.

 

[Peater Pan]

Small changes can make a big difference. I have discovered a drop from 125 to 112,5 t4 per day has had a really positive effect on me this summer. At the moment I am not wanting more so I am holding steady.

How long before you can perceive T4 change effects? About two weeks, or a little bit longer?

 

[marsaday]

In 24h's for me. But generally after 2 weeks for many

 

[Peater Pan]

In 24h's for me. But generally after 2 weeks for many

Wow. That't amazing. What would you say is the largest single dose of T4 one should take? I'm Hashi's, almost no thyroid tissue, and have switched from recalled NDT to T4 (100) + T3 (as much as I need). I'm taking 50 T4 w/dinner and 50 at bed and 2-5 mcg T3 doses through the day w/food. Things are improving, temps are coming up but I think there are maybe cortisol/adrenaline and hormonal issue too. I don't think I can get there w/T4 alone.

 

[marsaday]

Its 1.8mcg per kg body weight on the NHS in the UK. So a typical male will be on 150mcg.

Some people can be on 800mcg T4 only. Huge doses, but some people are on these big doses.

You are doing the right thing taking a lowish T4 dose and using T3 to top up in those small doses. I find T4 works fine for me so dont really use T3 anymore.