Levothyroxine Causing Hairloss

[GreenEyedBlonde]

No I had not checked, but after taking aromatising compunds, AIs, and SERMS and months of experience with symptoms of too high or too low I think I have a pretty good feel of elevated estrogen. I definitely gained weight on levothyroxine with no change in diet or exercise -

How does on plan to overcome the gaps in T1, T2, and Calcitonin with just T4 and T3? Though T3 helps with osteoporisis factors I'm not aware of it converting into calcitonin.

You realize the detumescence therapy you claim regrew your hair is to break up the calcium deposits under the scalp, correct? And yet you advise to suppress the hormone that opposes the parathyroid and prevents excess calcium blood levels - calcitonin.

I feel way better 1.5 weeks off synthetic T4. I can't speak for T3 supplementation experience but my Free T3 was in good range so I wasn't sure there was a need.
I can understand adding T3 as an improvement because your body isn't supposed to rely simply on conversion.
In terms of optimal health and hair I'm not sure it's wise to suppress Calcitonin

@Albina if you TSH is lower than .4 that's hyperthyroid. On top of that I would try to get another doctor or go to a private lab tester like LabCorp and get the necessary blood work done.

If you could handle it I would go off the meds myself, I was on that dose of 100 mcg and still had energy, much better than elevated estrogen and natural hormone suppression.

Last year the Endo decreased my dosage only 50 mcg/week because of the low TSH. Six months later I was retested (feeling fatigued) and my TSH shot up to 19.2! It was checked twice (two different labs) with same result. When he gave me back the lousy 50 mcg/week, my TSH went down to 2.1 within 6 weeks. I’m afraid to go off with that history.

 

[Arrade]

Last year the Endo decreased my dosage only 50 mcg/week because of the low TSH. Six months later I was retested (feeling fatigued) and my TSH shot up to 19.2! It was checked twice (two different labs) with same result. When he gave me back the lousy 50 mcg/week, my TSH went down to 2.1 within 6 weeks. I’m afraid to go off with that history.

Six months is a long time for you TSH to climb. Tbh at 137 mcg I don't know what my TSH was, I was 3.3 TSH while using 100 mcg which is why they raised my dose.

I don't think taking syntethic hormone is a solution, but maybe adding T3 really does help with a lot of the symptoms.
I can't see eating more sugar as a solution either, try reading this: https://www.amazon.com/Medical-Medi...r=8-1&keywords=thyroid+healing+medical+medium
and incorporating the foods and supplements.
Another thing that helped one of my friends is using the iodine protocol:
https://jeffreydachmd.com/wp-conten...plementing-with-Iodine-Stephanie-Burst-ND.pdf

Me personally I'm focused on reversing soft tissue calcification as an effort to put my vellus hair back into anagen, then I will be doing the iodine protocol and experimenting with things like guggol or ashwagandha. I have primary hypothyroidism and believe it can be fixed overtime.

 

[Arrade]

@Albina while the levothyroxine gave me more energy I mentally felt much less confident and kept bloating with no reason why. My joints started to feel almost arthritic at the age of 23, and my hairloss moved swiftly and unabated.
The calcium and estrogen lowering supps I used prior started to doing nothing to prevent hairloss or make me feel better, and then I remembered the calcitonin hormone and how it controls calcium and prevents bone resorption - and I was suppressing it.

I don't know how you feel completely off the levo for two weeks at a time or what energy levels you need or what your medical history is. Personally most "symptoms" of hypo didn't apply to me, just the low energy and depressive state. It wasn't until the levothyroxine I got quick hairloss and other symptoms

 

[Luckytype]

@Luckytype, I could try the nibbling but this formulation is very soft and will just melt in my mouth. I’m guessing that shouldn’t be a problem with absorption happening in the mouth rather than the stomach? I could just retest after 6 weeks of the nibbling to see if my labs worsen. I believe the problem with the Endo is his msm training and lack of interest in treating basic thyroid disease. Uncontrolled diabetes is apparently more exciting and lucrative. My daughter has been hypothyroid since age 7 and on levothyroxine since diagnosis. She is 5’0”, approx 225#, size 40 F bra size but her TSH is ‘normal’ on meds. She is obviously very estrogenic, had 2 miscarriages blamed on low progesterone, and her Endo (not mine) refuses to consider anything other than calories in/calories out! I feel so sad for her. She is 31 and has never felt well. Unfortunately, she is still a believer in msm and the ‘Peat’ approach would require too much work with an 18 mo. Old.

Its totally fine, let it melt and just swallow it, there is just as much moisture in your stomach as mouth.

There is not too much money in thyroid health. You can read and research a ton on how the new methodology of TSH based treatment has failed to improve quality of life compared to symptom treatment decades ago.

I would change endos. Seriously. If you both are not converting or are converting and utilization is being hindered, shoving more t4 into it wont help. Its like shoving more wood onto a dying smoldering suffocated fire.

No I had not checked, but after taking aromatising compunds, AIs, and SERMS and months of experience with symptoms of too high or too low I think I have a pretty good feel of elevated estrogen. I definitely gained weight on levothyroxine with no change in diet or exercise -

How does on plan to overcome the gaps in T1, T2, and Calcitonin with just T4 and T3? Though T3 helps with osteoporisis factors I'm not aware of it converting into calcitonin.

You realize the detumescence therapy you claim regrew your hair is to break up the calcium deposits under the scalp, correct? And yet you advise to suppress the hormone that opposes the parathyroid and prevents excess calcium blood levels - calcitonin.

I feel way better 1.5 weeks off synthetic T4. I can't speak for T3 supplementation experience but my Free T3 was in good range so I wasn't sure there was a need.
I can understand adding T3 as an improvement because your body isn't supposed to rely simply on conversion.
In terms of optimal health and hair I'm not sure it's wise to suppress Calcitonin

@Albina if you TSH is lower than .4 that's hyperthyroid. On top of that I would try to get another doctor or go to a private lab tester like LabCorp and get the necessary blood work done.

If you could handle it I would go off the meds myself, I was on that dose of 100 mcg and still had energy, much better than elevated estrogen and natural hormone suppression.

First, if youre accusing me of claiming anything you need to re-read my posts. I never claimed detumescence regrew my hair. In fact ive been figuratively screaming about metabolism. You should really spend time understanding tissue growth(outside of hairloss worlds) and why things happen. You should spend time learning cellular matrix and how nutrition plays a part. You should spend time learning how damaged tissue remodels and what damages tissues.

Second, never once have I ever even mentioned supressing anything of the thyroid spectrum.
Please quote the post where I advise explicitely supressing calcitonin or stop accusing before re-reading.

@Arrade to be brutally honest with you: you need to get bloodwork of all these things you claim are the cause of your hairloss. You need to keep symptoms in mind but get objective markers of what your body is doing. This essentially blind shotgunning of one thing after another isnt effecient.

Also realize that you can have reasonable levels of t3/4/tsh and still be converting t4 into RT3 or have other limitations that LIMIT uptake and utilization into a cell. So youre left in an awesome situation of great looking partial bloodwork but cells that cant or wont get it or use it.

 

[Arrade]

There is not much money in thyroid health besides being the #1 prescribed med in the world, #2 in the US. That's hilarious

 

[Arrade]

Its totally fine, let it melt and just swallow it, there is just as much moisture in your stomach as mouth.

There is not too much money in thyroid health. You can read and research a ton on how the new methodology of TSH based treatment has failed to improve quality of life compared to symptom treatment decades ago.

I would change endos. Seriously. If you both are not converting or are converting and utilization is being hindered, shoving more t4 into it wont help. Its like shoving more wood onto a dying smoldering suffocated fire.



First, if youre accusing me of claiming anything you need to re-read my posts. I never claimed detumescence regrew my hair. In fact ive been figuratively screaming about metabolism. You should really spend time understanding tissue growth(outside of hairloss worlds) and why things happen. You should spend time learning cellular matrix and how nutrition plays a part. You should spend time learning how damaged tissue remodels and what damages tissues.

Second, never once have I ever even mentioned supressing anything of the thyroid spectrum.
Please quote the post where I advise explicitely supressing calcitonin or stop accusing before re-reading.

@Arrade to be brutally honest with you: you need to get bloodwork of all these things you claim are the cause of your hairloss. You need to keep symptoms in mind but get objective markers of what your body is doing. This essentially blind shotgunning of one thing after another isnt effecient.

Also realize that you can have reasonable levels of t3/4/tsh and still be converting t4 into RT3 or have other limitations that LIMIT uptake and utilization into a cell. So youre left in an awesome situation of great looking partial bloodwork but cells that cant or wont get it or use it.

Sorry buddy, pretty sure I read several of your posts about you using massage and that regrew some of your hairline. Maybe your problem is you didn't know that's what detumescence meant; I really rather not go back through all your posts where you said you used massages and saw results to prove this

I never said you advised suppressing calcitonin
The fact is that's what happens when taking T4 or T3 synthetic analogues.
https://watermark.silverchair.com/j...q_JxK781nwmj-VLDwaPe5PwDOt38ORyeHwOMGyN2o8KFU



"The main concern is the use of suppressive
doses of T4, for treatment of thyroid cancer or thyroid nodules,
as this has been reported to increase the rate of bone
turnover and, hence, result in osteopenia. The increased rate
of bone turnover was reflected by an elevation of the serum
osteocalcin level, a sensitive marker for increased osteoblast
activity and bone formation (2)."

Suppresive meaning taking any amount of levothyroxine, because when you take synthetic thyroid it supresses your natural production.
If you take T4 you will not be getting T1, T2, or Calcitonin.

 

[Arrade]

You don't get calcitonin, and get this problem that Danny Roddy illustrates:
Danny Roddy (@dannyroddy) | Twitter

"Calcium outflow from bone that occurs to prevent decrease of blood calcium in calcium deficiency caused by the PTH (parathyroid hormone), with consequent calcium overflow into soft tissues & the intracellular compartment." [↓ Ca Intake ↑ PTH ↑ Intracellular Ca ↑ Aging] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10874605

What opposes the bad bad parathyroid hormone?
"Calcitonin is a hormone that is produced in humans by the parafollicular cells (commonly known as C-cells) of the thyroid gland. Calcitonin is involved in helping to regulate levels of calcium and phosphate in the blood, opposing the action of parathyroid hormone."

I never said you mentioned calcitonin because I figured this out myself, no thanks to Ray Peat or anyone else on this forum, just my own research into the thyroid and it's various hormones.

 

[Arrade]

Its totally fine, let it melt and just swallow it, there is just as much moisture in your stomach as mouth.

@Arrade to be brutally honest with you: you need to get bloodwork of all these things you claim are the cause of your hairloss. You need to keep symptoms in mind but get objective markers of what your body is doing. This essentially blind shotgunning of one thing after another isnt effecient.

Also realize that you can have reasonable levels of t3/4/tsh and still be converting t4 into RT3 or have other limitations that LIMIT uptake and utilization into a cell. So youre left in an awesome situation of great looking partial bloodwork but cells that cant or wont get it or use it.

I never claimed estrogen was the cause of my hairloss, I was simply stating that looking back I realize a lot of my symptoms on levothyroxine could have been an uptick in estrogen, which I have a lot of experience and knowledge with.

The RT3 aspect is fair, I have never got that tested. IF you are saying that it could potentially make my healthy T3 levels null is something I wasn't aware of. I'll have to read more up on it. Thanks

 

[Luckytype]

You don't get calcitonin, and get this problem that Danny Roddy illustrates:
Danny Roddy (@dannyroddy) | Twitter

"Calcium outflow from bone that occurs to prevent decrease of blood calcium in calcium deficiency caused by the PTH (parathyroid hormone), with consequent calcium overflow into soft tissues & the intracellular compartment." [↓ Ca Intake ↑ PTH ↑ Intracellular Ca ↑ Aging] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10874605

What opposes the bad bad parathyroid hormone?
"Calcitonin is a hormone that is produced in humans by the parafollicular cells (commonly known as C-cells) of the thyroid gland. Calcitonin is involved in helping to regulate levels of calcium and phosphate in the blood, opposing the action of parathyroid hormone."

I never said you mentioned calcitonin because I figured this out myself, no thanks to Ray Peat or anyone else on this forum, just my own research into the thyroid and it's various hormones.

I just pulled this from a quote of quoting you "You realize the detumescence therapy you claim regrew your hair is to break up the calcium deposits under the scalp, correct? And yet you advise to suppress the hormone that opposes the parathyroid and prevents excess calcium blood levels - calcitonin." Literally from your post unless youve now edited it.

To be fair calcitonin says exactly what it does in its name..

 

[Arrade]

I just pulled this from a quote of quoting you "You realize the detumescence therapy you claim regrew your hair is to break up the calcium deposits under the scalp, correct? And yet you advise to suppress the hormone that opposes the parathyroid and prevents excess calcium blood levels - calcitonin." Literally from your post unless youve now edited it.

To be fair calcitonin says exactly what it does in its name..

What you were advising was the continuous use of T4, which if you will research suppresses calcitonin.
I didn't mean you were intent on that happening, I was referring to what the outcome of your advice to @Albina would be.

 

[Luckytype]

I never claimed estrogen was the cause of my hairloss, I was simply stating that looking back I realize a lot of my symptoms on levothyroxine could have been an uptick in estrogen, which I have a lot of experience and knowledge with.

The RT3 aspect is fair, I have never got that tested. IF you are saying that it could potentially make my healthy T3 levels null is something I wasn't aware of. I'll have to read more up on it. Thanks

Chances are you are androgenically dysregulated either by thyroid function or other things(stress, nutrition, etc etc etc) that have eventually caused issue with your thyroid.

You should take a look at SHBG as well when you get tests done.

 

[Arrade]

To be fair calcitonin says exactly what it does in its name..

And yet I haven't heard it mentioned once by Ray Peat or Danny Roddy.
I've also never heard it discussed on this forum, and especially in regards to causes of hairloss.

I thought it would be beneficial to all to ennumerate exactly what it does, i.e. opposing the parathyroid hormone isn't in its name.

 

[Luckytype]

What you were advising was the continuous use of T4, which if you will research suppresses calcitonin.
I didn't mean you were intent on that happening, I was referring to what the outcome of your advice to @Albina would be.

??? What are you talking about? Please also quote where I explicitely advised that considering I Am Not Her Endocrinologist

I was merely suggesting considering adding in something that may give immediate relief for her and her daughter may help. You gotta keep in mind some people arent comfortable with medicating themselves...

And yet I haven't heard it mentioned once by Ray Peat or Danny Roddy.
I've also never heard it discussed on this forum, and especially in regards to causes of hairloss.

I thought it would be beneficial to all to ennumerate exactly what it does, i.e. opposing the parathyroid hormone isn't in its name.

There is more than just PTH and calcitonin that influence mineral flux in cells and systems. Do you believe that non energized cells have the ability to do their jobs in reference to the wiki paragraph you posted regarding secretion of calcitonin? Or do you believe that a sluggish system can have a host of problems?

 

[Luckytype]

glitch post

 

[Arrade]

Chances are you are androgenically dysregulated either by thyroid function or other things(stress, nutrition, etc etc etc) that have eventually caused issue with your thyroid.

You should take a look at SHBG as well when you get tests done.

I also thought that perhaps my lack of calories in high school led to the genesis of my thyroid disorder.
For a little transparency:
I've had the disorder for 3+ years while gaining 10lbs of muscle every year from eating a well balanced diet of protein/carbs/ ample fruits and veggies. My nutrition is pretty dialed in and I've never tested for a vitamin deficiency, though something like zinc testing interests me.

This is also the theories that toxic metals dampen the thyroid and that's why detoxing use of iodine works.

Yes perhaps I will get all these tests done, I have to have rhinoplasty for a rugby injury soon though so it may be a minute.

 

[Arrade]

??? What are you talking about? Please also quote where I explicitely advised that considering I Am Not Her Endocrinologist

I was merely suggesting considering adding in something that may give immediate relief for her and her daughter may help. You gotta keep in mind some people arent comfortable with medicating themselves...



There is more than just PTH and calcitonin that influence mineral flux in cells and systems. Do you believe that non energized cells have the ability to do their jobs in reference to the wiki paragraph you posted regarding secretion of calcitonin? Or do you believe that a sluggish system can have a host of problems?

You seem pretty adamant on the metabolic theory of hairloss, while I was considering the calcification theory.
That is why I was posting things in regards to calcium and their role is things like atherosclerosis:

1. Danny Roddy‏ @dannyroddy Aug 30
   "...Male-pattern baldness might be an indicator of arterial stiffness in asymptomatic young adults." "It is well-known that, arterial stiffness may precede and predict future development of hypertension." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24628808
   
2. Danny Roddy‏ @dannyroddy Aug 29
   "These results confirm and extend data on the association of low vitamin D levels with subclinical carotid atherosclerosis." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21719770

The so called mineral I was concerned with is calcium, which I've researched from several angles like the GLA matrix of Vitamin K, threshold 270 mcg.

 

[Luckytype]

Well to tie it all in which you can further learn about, the inability to maintain inward and outward exchange of just "things"(metabolites, nutrients, thyroid, minerals, calories and their intermediates etc etc) is commonly what causes an energy inbalance and leads to accumulation of X. Which in the case of intracellular calcium(in just this one isolated talking point example) is what youre looking at.

 

[marsaday]

T4 is not responsible for hair loss in any one, but lots of people do report this issue. Like wise lots report improved hair growth.

I have read (cant remember where) the issue with taking T4 and it then causing the hair loss is not due to the fillers or the T4, but what the T4 is doing to the system as a whole.

T4 is up regulating the metabolism and so improving performance. However, many metabolisms cannot keep up and it is a deficiency in various vitamins and minerals which contributes to the hair loss.

So T4 is simulating the metabolism and so a higher requirement is demanded for vitamins and minerals. Some metabolisms deliver what is required, some don't. The same can be said of cortisol supply etc.

So look into vitamin and mineral supps.

 

[Arrade]

T4 is not responsible for hair loss in any one, but lots of people do report this issue. Like wise lots report improved hair growth.

I have read (cant remember where) the issue with taking T4 and it then causing the hair loss is not due to the fillers or the T4, but what the T4 is doing to the system as a whole.

T4 is up regulating the metabolism and so improving performance. However, many metabolisms cannot keep up and it is a deficiency in various vitamins and minerals which contributes to the hair loss.

So T4 is simulating the metabolism and so a higher requirement is demanded for vitamins and minerals. Some metabolisms deliver what is required, some don't. The same can be said of cortisol supply etc.

So look into vitamin and mineral supps.

How it ever been proven that a lack of simple vitamins and minerals caused mpb?
I'm genuinely curious because I never saw any evidence, maybe poor quality hair but not evidence of going bald

 

[GreenEyedBlonde]

@Albina while the levothyroxine gave me more energy I mentally felt much less confident and kept bloating with no reason why. My joints started to feel almost arthritic at the age of 23, and my hairloss moved swiftly and unabated.
The calcium and estrogen lowering supps I used prior started to doing nothing to prevent hairloss or make me feel better, and then I remembered the calcitonin hormone and how it controls calcium and prevents bone resorption - and I was suppressing it.

I don't know how you feel completely off the levo for two weeks at a time or what energy levels you need or what your medical history is. Personally most "symptoms" of hypo didn't apply to me, just the low energy and depressive state. It wasn't until the levothyroxine I got quick hairloss and other symptoms

I also have unexplained, continual bloating and arthritis in my hands. Part of the reason I ended up on this forum was because of the very low calorie diet I had to follow for years just to maintain a normal BMI. The inadequate caloric intake caused many problems which I have since been able to get a handle on since joining this forum. I’m finally sleeping a bit better and no longer feel physically ill when I get up in the morning. Obviously my caloric intake was inadequate to deal with a pro-metabolic substance such as levothyroxine. I do feel better but weigh 10 lbs more and still have other hypo symptoms like fatigue, constipation, very dry skin, and hair loss which is why I’ve been interested in this thread. Perhaps I do need other supplements or need to add in some T3. I do not feel comfortable completely going off my T4 but I am interested in your experience with eliminating this drug.