Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

[haidut]

I have an old rat who is taking Lixiana (Edoxaban)(an anticoagulant drug which acts as a direct factor Xa inhibitor). Would it be okay to give them Kuinone while on this medication?

It seems ever since they've started using blood thinners, they've gotten skin rashes and a buzzing sensation that goes up and down their spine. They've also recently developed high blood pressure. Any other recommendations? Thanks.

I would ask the doctor before using it. The symptoms from the drug are likely linked to depletion of vitamin K and magnesium, which most coagulants are known to do. So, maybe the doctor would agree to either lower the dose or add some vitamin K and magnesium to it.

 

[UltraSuperior]

This was probably asked before but it's impossible to search the thread on this forum unfortunately.

I just purchased Kuinone. Been using 15 drops daily, attempting to achieve a dosage of 30 mg daily.

However, I doubt the full product is being absorbed topically.

Haidut, out of each drop, how much would you say is being absorbed into the body?

Can clothes rubbing on my forearms absorb some of it/negatively affect absorption somehow? I'm very paranoid about that.

Is it prudent to consume the product orally to ensure maximum absorption? As I would really like to take atleast 30 mg of vit K2 daily.

Is it even possible to take orally due to the ethanol content?

 

[baccheion]

This was probably asked before but it's impossible to search the thread on this forum unfortunately.

I just purchased Kuinone. Been using 15 drops daily, attempting to achieve a dosage of 30 mg daily.

However, I doubt the full product is being absorbed topically.

Haidut, out of each drop, how much would you say is being absorbed into the body?

Can clothes rubbing on my forearms absorb some of it/negatively affect absorption somehow? I'm very paranoid about that.

Is it prudent to consume the product orally to ensure maximum absorption? As I would really like to take atleast 30 mg of vit K2 daily.

Is it even possible to take orally due to the ethanol content?

Take a 15 mg capsule orally in addition to Kuinone topically. Apply to an area that won't be touched once dry, like the pocket between the penis and scrotum. Taking at separate times is better, as serum is then elevated longer. 3x/day is ideal. Some say topical is slow absorbing and doesn't need to be reapplied throughout the day.

 

[UltraSuperior]

Take a 15 mg capsule orally in addition to Kuinone topically. Apply to an area that won't be touched once dry, like the pocket between the penis and scrotum. Taking at separate times is better, as serum is then elevated longer. 3x/day is ideal. Some say topical is slow absorbing and doesn't need to be reapplied throughout the day.

Appreciate the reply.

What's the point of taking k2 orally in addition to topic application?

Also where would I be able to apply that won't be touched? Only area I can think of is face and under the neck maybe but that might be strange. Arms would work but I only wear long sleeve shirts(office). Hands don't work because I wash them.

I don't really have any source for high dosed oral capsules in europe. Do you know of any? I'm located in Germany to be precise. I believe it's advised against by Haidut to apply anything on the scrotum.

 

[baccheion]

Appreciate the reply.

What's the point of taking k2 orally in addition to topic application?

Also where would I be able to apply that won't be touched? Only area I can think of is face and under the neck maybe but that might be strange. Arms would work but I only wear long sleeve shirts(office). Hands don't work because I wash them.

I don't really have any source for high dosed oral capsules in europe. Do you know of any? I'm located in Germany to be precise. I believe it's advised against by Haidut to apply anything on the scrotum.

Take orally as well to ensure absorption, then topical is a bonus. For example, 1 mg/kg across 3 servings is the amount actually used in the osteoporosis study. If wanting 2/3rds, then it's closer to 46 mg for someone weighing 70 kg. That's 15 mg orally and (the equivalent of) 8-9 mg topically 2-3x/day.

Relentless Improvement and AOR sell 15 mg pills on Amazon. Maybe they are available in Germany?

 

[UltraSuperior]

Take orally as well to ensure absorption, then topical is a bonus. For example, 1 mg/kg across 3 servings is the amount actually used in the osteoporosis study. If wanting 2/3rds, then it's closer to 46 mg for someone weighing 70 kg. That's 15 mg orally and (the equivalent of) 8-9 mg topically 2-3x/day.

Relentless Improvement and AOR sell 15 mg pills on Amazon. Maybe they are available in Germany?

So would you say oral is better absorbed vs topical?

Unfortunately those brands are not available in Europe/Germany, which is a huge bummer.

I kinda assumed Kuinone would be enough for my needs. Could I just take it orally?

Can you explain your calculations regarding mg amount oral vs topical? As I understand it you're saying topical is more effective?

How much will clothes rubbing interfere with absorption if I wait for 15 minutes before rolling my sleeves down?

 

[baccheion]

So would you say oral is better absorbed vs topical?

Unfortunately those brands are not available in Europe/Germany, which is a huge bummer.

I kinda assumed Kuinone would be enough for my needs. Could I just take it orally?

Can you explain your calculations regarding mg amount oral vs topical? As I understand it you're saying topical is more effective?

How much will clothes rubbing interfere with absorption if I wait for 15 minutes before rolling my sleeves down?

Topical supposedly absorbs 3x better, making 15 mg orally the same as 5 mg topically. In my example above, I split 23 mg (70/3) into an oral and topical dose. I didn't adjust the 8-9 mg to the equivalent, but mentioned it should be done. If the 3x difference is correct, 3 mg would be applied topically to get the equivalent of 9 mg.

The dose was split between topical and oral to hedge bets. That is, it's an approach if unsure of the amount absorbed topically.

 

[UltraSuperior]

Topical supposedly absorbs 3x better, making 15 mg orally the same as 5 mg topically. In my example above, I split 23 mg (70/3) into an oral and topical dose. I didn't adjust the 8-9 mg to the equivalent, but mentioned it should be done. If the 3x difference is correct, 3 mg would be applied topically to get the equivalent of 9 mg.

The dose was split between topical and oral to hedge bets. That is, it's an approach if unsure of the amount absorbed topically.

Okay, thanks a lot. I'll just take 15 drops topically daily and try to make sure it stays on the skin as long as possible.

This means that I'd effectively be taking around 90 mg of vitamin k2 daily compared to the studies.

Hope it's not too much

 

[baccheion]

Okay, thanks a lot. I'll just take 15 drops topically daily and try to make sure it stays on the skin as long as possible.

This means that I'd effectively be taking around 90 mg of vitamin k2 daily compared to the studies.

Hope it's not too much

Take 1/3rd 3x/day, then it's also spending more time on the skin without being washed off.

 

[UltraSuperior]

Take 1/3rd 3x/day, then it's also spending more time on the skin without being washed off.

Yes that's what I'm planning. I'm also taking EstroBan.

Do you have any good ideas for topical application areas?

I'm thinking I'll do 5 drops on back of hand in the morning, 5 drops on the wrist at midday and 5 drops on the jaw/chin at night.

 

[Healthia]

Libido success story. I wanted to share my fantastic experience from taking Kuinone the past month. Libido...through...the...roof. This is probably going to be a bit lengthy but I think it lends proof to what happened to me once I started the Kuinone. A little background on me. 53 year old male. In 2014 diagnosed with major depressive disorder which was "drug resistant" (this was before I knew anything about Ray Peat and serotonin). Since I wasn't "responding" to any of the anti-depressants my doctor ordered some blood work on some things that he said could effect mood: B-6, B-12, Vitamin D, and Testosterone. I know now that there is a lot more deficiencies that could effect mood but in hindsight it was a very good place to start. B vitamin levels were fine but Vitamin D and testosterone were low.

2014 Levels
Vitamin D was 30 ng/ml
Total Testosterone 4.50 ng/ml
Free Testosterone was 92 pg/ml

I think it was the aging process, a sub-optimal diet for ensuring hormone balance and vitamin and mineral deficiencies.

Not knowing anything about co-factors or the tricky part about balancing different minerals and different vitamins I started taking Vitamin D (10,000 iu per day) all by itself without any co-factors because I had stumbled across a few studies that showed an almost 1:1 ratio of Vitamin D levels when compared to testosterone levels. After about a year my testosterone levels had come up to about 5.50 ng/ml but honestly the whole reason I was so driven to raise my testosterone naturally was because I did not want to get on the TRT and I also desperately wanted my libido back. So even at 5.50 ng/ml my libido was still sub-optimal. I researched all the time tweeking my diet and vitamins.minerals and brought it up to 601 ng/ml but still sub-optimal libido.

My latest blood work showed 6.92 ng/ml. The libido was a tiny bit better but still sub-optimal. Here are the numbers from 4 months ago:

25-HYDROXY VITAMIN D 91 ng/mL Standard Range 30 - 100 ng/mL ng/mL
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 6.92 ng/mL Standard Range 3.00-10.00 ng/mL
TESTOSTERONE FREE 114.1 pg/mL Standard Range 35.0 - 155.0 pg/mL
TESTOSTERONE FREE % 1.9 % Standard Range 1.1 - 2.8 %
MAGNESIUM 2.1 mg/dL Standard Range 1.6 - 2.6 mg/dL
TSH,BLD,QN 2.480 uIU/mL Standard Range 0.300 - 4.200 uIU/mL
T4 FREE 1.20 ng/mL Standard Range 0.60 - 1.70 ng/mL
T3 101.0 ng/dL Standard Range 80.0 - 200.0 ng/dL
SHGB 30 nmol/L Standard Range 10 - 50 nmol/L
PROLACTIN 15.0 ng/mL Males (>18 years): 2.0 - 18.0 ng/mL
ESTRADIOL 12.0 pg/mL Males 11.3-43.2
PROGESTERONE 0.27 ng/mL Males 0.3 - 1.2 ng/mL
FERRITIN 92.8 ng/mL Standard Range 30.0 - 400.0 ng/mL
ALT 35 U/L Standard Range <=41 U/L
CHOLESTEROL 254 mg/dL Standard Range <=200 mg/dL
TRIGLYCERIDE 222 mg/dL Standard Range <=150 mg/dL
CHOLESTEROL, NON-HDL 214 mg/dL Standard Range <=130 mg/dL
LDL 170 mg/dL Standard Range <=100 mg/dL
GLUCOSE POST FAST 97 mg/dL Standard Range 70 - 100 mg/dL
POTASSIUM 4.5 mmol/L Standard Range 3.6 - 5.2 mmol/L
SODIUM 142 mmol/L Standard Range 136 - 145 mmol/L
CHLORIDE 104 mmol/L Standard Range 98 - 107 mmol/L
CO2 26 mmol/L Standard Range 22 - 29 mmol/L
ANION GAP SERPL 12 Standard Range 8 - 16
CREATININE 1.04 mg/dL Standard Range 0.70 - 1.20 mg/dL
BUN 23 mg/dL Standard Range 6 - 20 mg/dL

Now the interesting thing was to me that my estradiol is too low, and there a quite a few studies that indicate that when estradiol is that low there will be sexual/libido issues. Men function best sexually with estradiol somewhere around 16-30 pg/ml.

Published: New England Journal of Medicine. Sept 2013
Title: Gonadal Steroids and Body Composition, Strength, and Sexual Function in Men
Conclusion quote:
"The most adverse effects of estrogen deficiency were on sexual desire, with men in this group reporting dramatic declines in arousal and erectile function."

In addition my prolactin is on the high side which could also impact libido.

Published: Journal of Sexual Medicine 2016
Title: Endocrinologic Control of Men’s Sexual Desire and Arousal/Erection
Conclusion quote:
“Hyperprolactinemia is associated with low desire (in males) that can be successfully corrected by appropriate treatments”

So there I sat, reviewing my blood work after 4 and a half years of experimenting with diet and supplements and wondering what I should do next to get my libido back. So I added Kuinone. I could tell from the first night that something different was happening. I applied 17 drops to my scrotum and 3 to my penis. Within a few hours I was noticing that my penis and scrotum were lengthening (not an erection but a flaccid enlargement and my scrotum was unusually relaxed) and then I started getting horny. This went on every night for the next month. I decreased the amount of drops to see how little I could use and still get the same effect. I am currently applying approximately 10 drops to scrotum and 2-3 on penis. Now after about a week or two I noticed that there were "more attractive women" at the store, in the car next to me, on the side of the road, on TV... LOL. My libido is so high it is almost an annoyance. But because mine has been dead for so many years I welcome the annoyance of the yearning. I have not had a libido this high since college.

Since I have not had labs pulled I do not know what the mechanism of action is but I would venture a guess that my testosterone has been raised and that perhaps some of that has also converted to estrogen (which I needed). Perhaps it has effected other levels, of that I am not sure but I did want to share this success story with the forum.

Side note: I am meticulous when I experiment with different vitamins and minerals. I absolutely will not add more than one supplement at a time and even then I give it anywhere from 1-3 months to see if there is any change. That is why it has taken my 4+ years to fine tune my diet and supplements. While I appreciate when forum members share their personal stories many of the stories mean nothing when they are adding 5 new things at the same time at maximum dosage. Too many things at once does not inform, it only confounds the data.

My diet and supplements are:

Diet: Mostly Pete inspired, a little heavier on meats and eggs since I do train with weights and need the extra protein.

Supplements daily:
Retinil (from Idea Labs) 10,000 iu
Zinc piccolinate (Pure Encapsulations) 15 mg
Copper Glycinate (Pure Encapsulations) 2-4 mg
Selenium (Pure Encapsulations) 200-400 mcg
Calcium Carbonate (Bulk Supplements) 1500 - 2000 mg
Magnesium Carbonate (Bulk Supplements) 1000 - 1500 mg
Vitamin E (Unique E High Gamma Mixed Tocopherols) 400 mg
B-50 Complex (Source Naturals) 1 tablet broken in half
Vitamin D-3 (Source Naturals) 5,000 iu
Boron (Vibrant Health) 6 mg

These were the maintanance dosages that I used to raise my testosterone from 4.50 ng/mL to 6.92 ng/mL BEFORE starting Kuinone. When I started on the Vitamin D I took 50,000 iu to 100,000 iu daily for about a week to raise my levels quickly. This has to be done with the correct balance of Vitamin K (K-1, MK-4 and MK-7 otherwise you can get hypercalciemia). I would recommend a minimum of 150 mcg (that is micrograms NOT milligrams) MK-4 and/or MK-7 per each 1000 mg of Vitamin D3 that you are taking, also take magnesium, boron and vitamin A... these are other co-factors for vitamin D supplementation. Do your research, I ended up getting calcium deposits in my joints before I knew about balancing all the cofactors, and it is painful.

The only change I have made in the past month was the addition of Kuinone, and that is what gave me the crazy libido boost that I have been enjoying. I want to thank Haidut for his tireless efforts to bring his supplement line to market. You have helped change another life.

 

[baccheion]

Libido success story. I wanted to share my fantastic experience from taking Kuinone the past month. Libido...through...the...roof. This is probably going to be a bit lengthy but I think it lends proof to what happened to me once I started the Kuinone. A little background on me. 53 year old male. In 2014 diagnosed with major depressive disorder which was "drug resistant" (this was before I knew anything about Ray Peat and serotonin). Since I wasn't "responding" to any of the anti-depressants my doctor ordered some blood work on some things that he said could effect mood: B-6, B-12, Vitamin D, and Testosterone. I know now that there is a lot more deficiencies that could effect mood but in hindsight it was a very good place to start. B vitamin levels were fine but Vitamin D and testosterone were low.

2014 Levels
Vitamin D was 30 ng/ml
Total Testosterone 4.50 ng/ml
Free Testosterone was 92 pg/ml

Many of you may think that I perhaps may have delved into steroid use by my picture but fortunately I have been blessed with good genes for building muscle and never had to resort to that. I think it was the aging process, a sub-optimal diet for ensuring hormone balance and vitamin and mineral deficiencies.

Not knowing anything about co-factors or the tricky part about balancing different minerals and different vitamins I started taking Vitamin D (10,000 iu per day) all my itself with out any co-factors because I had stumbled across a few studies that showed an almost 1:1 ratio of Vitamin D levels when compared to testosterone levels. After about a year my testosterone levels had come up to about 5.50 ng/ml but honestly the whole reason I was so driven to raise my testosterone naturally was because I did not want to get on the TRT and I also desperately wanted my libido back. So even at 5.50 ng/ml my libido was still sub-optimal. I researched all the time tweeking my diet and vitamins.minerals and brought it up to 601 ng/ml but still sub-optimal libido.

My latest blood work showed 6.92 ng/ml. The libido was a tiny bit better but still sub-optimal. Here are the numbers from 4 months ago:

25-HYDROXY VITAMIN D 91 ng/mL Standard Range 30 - 100 ng/mL ng/mL
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL 6.92 ng/mL Standard Range 3.00-10.00 ng/mL
TESTOSTERONE FREE 114.1 pg/mL 35.0 - 155.0 pg/mL
TESTOSTERONE FREE % 1.9 % Standard Range 1.1 - 2.8 %
MAGNESIUM 2.1 mg/dL Standard Range 1.6 - 2.6 mg/dL
TSH,BLD,QN 2.480 uIU/mL Standard Range 0.300 - 4.200 uIU/mL
T4 FREE 1.20 ng/mL Standard Range 0.60 - 1.70 ng/mL
T3 101.0 ng/dL Standard Range 80.0 - 200.0 ng/dL
SHGB 30 nmol/L Standard Range 10 - 50 nmol/L
PROLACTIN 15.0 ng/mL Males (>18 years): 2.0 - 18.0 ng/mL
ESTRADIOL 12.0 pg/mL Males 11.3-43.2
PROGESTERONE 0.27 ng/mL Males 0.3 - 1.2 ng/mL
FERRITIN 92.8 ng/mL Standard Range 30.0 - 400.0 ng/mL
ALT 35 U/L Standard Range <=41 U/L
CHOLESTEROL 254 mg/dL Standard Range <=200 mg/dL
TRIGLYCERIDE 222 mg/dL Standard Range <=150 mg/dL
CHOLESTEROL, NON-HDL 214 mg/dL Standard Range <=130 mg/dL
LDL 170 mg/dL Standard Range <=100 mg/dL
GLUCOSE POST FAST 97 mg/dL Standard Range 70 - 100 mg/dL
POTASSIUM 4.5 mmol/L Standard Range 3.6 - 5.2 mmol/L
SODIUM 142 mmol/L Standard Range 136 - 145 mmol/L
CHLORIDE 104 mmol/L Standard Range 98 - 107 mmol/L
CO2 26 mmol/L Standard Range 22 - 29 mmol/L
ANION GAP SERPL 12 Standard Range 8 - 16
CREATININE 1.04 mg/dL Standard Range 0.70 - 1.20 mg/dL
BUN 23 mg/dL Standard Range 6 - 20 mg/dL

Now the interesting thing was to me that my estradiol is too low, and there a quite a few studies that indicate that when estradiol is that low there will be sexual/libido issues. Men function best sexually with estradiol somewhere around 16-30 pg/ml.

Published: New England Journal of Medicine. Sept 2013
Title: Gonadal Steroids and Body Composition, Strength, and Sexual Function in Men
Conclusion quote:
"The most adverse effects of estrogen deficiency were on sexual desire, with men in this group reporting dramatic declines in arousal and erectile function."

In addition my prolactin is on the high side which could also impact libido.

Published: Journal of Sexual Medicine 2016
Title: Endocrinologic Control of Men’s Sexual Desire and Arousal/Erection
Conclusion quote:
“Hyperprolactinemia is associated with low desire (in males) that can be successfully corrected by appropriate treatments”

So there I sat, reviewing my blood work after 4 and a half years of experimenting with diet and supplements and wondering what I should do next to get my libido back. So I added Kuinone. I could tell from the first night that something different was happening. I applied 17 drops to my scrotum and 3 to my penis. Within a few hours I was noticing that my penis and scrotum were lengthening (not an erection but a flaccid enlargement and my scrotum was unusually relaxed) and then I started getting horny. This went on every night for the next month. I decreased the amount of drops to see how little I could use and still get the same effect. I am currently applying approximately 10 drops to scrotum and 2-3 on penis. Now after about a week or two I noticed that there were "more attractive women" at the store, in the car next to me, on the side of the road, on TV... LOL. Then it dawned on me that my libido was kicking in. And when I say kicking in I really mean it. I have not had a libido this high since college.

Since I have not had labs pulled I do not know what the mechanism of action is but I would venture a guess that my testosterone has been raised and that some of that has converted to estrogen (which I needed). Perhaps it has effected other levels, of that I am not sure but I did want to share this success story with the forum.

Side note: I am meticulous when I experiment with different vitamins and minerals. I absolutely will not add more than one supplement at a time and even then I give it anywhere from 1-3 months to see if there is any change. That is why it has taken my 4 plus years to fine tune my diet and supplements. While I appreciate when forum members share their personal stories many of them mean nothing when they are adding 5 new things at maximum dosage. Too many things at once does not inform it only confounds the data.

Since I knew I will be asked what my diet and supplements are here it is:

Diet: Mostly Pete inspired, a little heavier on meats and eggs since I do train with weights and need the extra protein.

Supplements daily:
Retinil (from Idea Labs) 10,000 iu
Zinc piccolinate (Pure Encapsulations) 15 mg
Copper Glycinate (Pure Encapsulations) 2-4 mg
Selenium (Pure Encapsulations) 200-400 mcg
Calcium Carbonate (Bulk Supplements) 1500 - 2000 mg
Magnesium Carbonate (Bulk Supplements) 1000 - 1500 mg
Vitamin E (Unique E High Gamma Mixed Tocopherols) 400 mg
B-50 Complex (Source Naturals) 1 tablet broken in half
Vitamin D-3 (Source Naturals) 5,000 iu
Boron (Vibrant Health) 6 mg

These were the maintanance dosages that I used to raise my testosterone from 4.50 ng/mL to 6.92 ng/mL BEFORE starting Kuinone. When I stated on the Vitamin D I took 50,000 iu to 100,000 iu daily for about a week to raise my levels quickly. This has to be done with the correct balance of Vitamin K (K-1, MK-4 and MK-7 otherwise you can get hypercalciemia). I would recommend a minimum of 150 mcg (that is micrograms NOT milligrams) MK-4 and/or MK-7 per each 1000 mg of Vitamin D3 that you are taking, also take magnesium, boron and vitamin A... these are other co-factors to vitamin D supplementation. Do your research, I ended up getting calcium deposits in my joints before I knew about balancing all the cofactors, and it is painful.

The only change I have made in the past month was the addition of Kuinone, and that is what gave me the crazy libido boost that I have been enjoying. I want to thank Haidut for his tireless efforts to bring his supplement line to market. You have helped change another life.

It would be great if you could verify increased libido with labs (total testosterone, SHBG, DHT, estradiol, prolactin, and luteinizing hormone). Vitamin K2 MK-4 can be deceptive.

 

[Healthia]

It would be great if you could verify increased libido with labs (total testosterone, SHBG, DHT, estradiol, prolactin, and luteinizing hormone). Vitamin K2 MK-4 can be deceptive.

I would like to know what has changed hormonally as well. I will see if I can get a work up. Getting labs approved through Kaiser Permenente is like pulling teeth.

I believe that the study (Menaquinone-4 enhances testosterone production in rats and testis-derived tumor cells)
suggests that LH and FSH do not appear to be affected or changed by the supplementation of Vitamin K despite it showing up to a 200% increase in testosterone, indicating that it is utilizing different pathways to increase testosterone.

 

[Healthia]

It would be great if you could verify increased libido with labs (total testosterone, SHBG, DHT, estradiol, prolactin, and luteinizing hormone). Vitamin K2 MK-4 can be deceptive.

How do you believe Vitamin K2 MK-4 can be deceptive?

 

[baccheion]

I would like to know what has changed hormonally as well. I will see if I can get a work up. Getting labs approved through Kaiser Permenente is like pulling teeth.

I believe that the study (Menaquinone-4 enhances testosterone production in rats and testis-derived tumor cells)
suggests that LH and FSH do not appear to be affected or changed by the supplementation of Vitamin K despite it showing up to a 200% increase in testosterone, indicating that it is utilizing different pathways to increase testosterone.

I think vitamin K2 MK-4 may affect protein kinase A via increased cyclic AMP: Menaquinone-4 enhances testosterone production in rats and testis-derived tumor cells.

MK-4 can be deceptive, as some effects are due to increased serotonin or dopamine rebound.

 

[Hans]

I would like to know what has changed hormonally as well. I will see if I can get a work up. Getting labs approved through Kaiser Permenente is like pulling teeth.

I believe that the study (Menaquinone-4 enhances testosterone production in rats and testis-derived tumor cells)
suggests that LH and FSH do not appear to be affected or changed by the supplementation of Vitamin K despite it showing up to a 200% increase in testosterone, indicating that it is utilizing different pathways to increase testosterone.

The tail of vitamin K2 is responsible for the boost in steroidogenesis. It increases the rate limited step that transports cholesterol into the testes. That's why haidut made Gonadin, which does the same thing.
Maybe taking gonadin would be safer as 10-17 drop on the scrotum is huge. Most people do only 1-2drops. Haidut posted a study that only about 3-5mg of K2 on the testes was needed for the steroidogenic boost.

 

[Healthia]

I think vitamin K2 MK-4 may affect protein kinase A via increased cyclic AMP: Menaquinone-4 enhances testosterone production in rats and testis-derived tumor cells.

MK-4 can be deceptive, as some effects are due to increased serotonin or dopamine rebound.

That is very interesting! I never knew MK-4 influenced serotonin or dopamine. Do you have any studies you can point me to about this? I would really like to read about it.

 

[Healthia]

The tail of vitamin K2 is responsible for the boost in steroidogenesis. It increases the rate limited step that transports cholesterol into the testes. That's why haidut made Gonadin, which does the same thing.
Maybe taking gonadin would be safer as 10-17 drop on the scrotum is huge. Most people do only 1-2drops. Haidut posted a study that only about 3-5mg of K2 on the testes was needed for the steroidogenic boost.

Thank you for the heads up on the dosage. I actually asked Hiadut last week how much of his products, using ethanol as the carrier, are absorbed through the skin. He had said about 50%. So my 10 drops on the scrotum equal about 7.5 mg of MK-4 that are absorbed. So I’m not too far off the 5mg in the study that Haidut posted. When I experiment on myself I like to do a higher than normal dose at the beginning, see what effects I notice, then dail back the dosage to see what is the lowest dosage I can take while still getting the effects. Could you point me to this study you mention. I would be interested in reading it. Very interested in learning what dermal carrier they used in the study. DMSO is the only dermal carrier I know of that will absorb close to 100% of whatever is co-administered with it. Most of the other dermal carriers can’t do much better than 50-60% absorption. Knowing what they used as the carrier in the study would really help me understand the dose that was absorbed (not just applied)

 

[Hans]

Thank you for the heads up on the dosage. I actually asked Hiadut last week how much of his products, using ethanol as the carrier, are absorbed through the skin. He had said about 50%. So my 10 drops on the scrotum equal about 7.5 mg of MK-4 that are absorbed. So I’m not too far off the 5mg in the study that Haidut posted. When I experiment on myself I like to do a higher than normal dose at the beginning, see what effects I notice, then dail back the dosage to see what is the lowest dosage I can take while still getting the effects. Could you point me to this study you mention. I would be interested in reading it. Very interested in learning what dermal carrier they used in the study. DMSO is the only dermal carrier I know of that will absorb close to 100% of whatever is co-administered with it. Most of the other dermal carriers can’t do much better than 50-60% absorption. Knowing what they used as the carrier in the study would really help me understand the dose that was absorbed (not just applied)

The studies should all be in the Gonadon thread, but I think the dose was an estimate from an in vitro study. At the end of the day experience triumphs all :). How do you even put that much liquid there and have it all absorb?

 

[Healthia]

The studies should all be in the Gonadon thread, but I think the dose was an estimate from an in vitro study. At the end of the day experience triumphs all :). How do you even put that much liquid there and have it all absorb?

Lol. I put it on before I lay in bed at the end of the day and then watch tv or read for 1-2 hours while undressed. 3-4 drops on each side of the scrotum and then a few drops at the underside of the base of penis.