Kuinone - Liquid Vitamin K2 (MK-4)

[haidut]

Hello, I'm new here and just bought this product today so please forgive my extreme ignorance. I've recently discovered that I have an serious lack of d3 and k2 in my diet and am trying to rectify it via supplementation as changing my diet or getting sunshine aren't feasible atm. A few questions:

I've heard this product has a higher bio-availability/potency due to being topical and as such doesn't require as many drops despite being 1.5mg. How many mg of capsule mk-4 is equivalent to a drop of this stuff?

Supposedly D3 works very well in tandem with mk-4 and is dangerous without it in high doses. Is 10,000 u.i of topical D3 daily acceptable for this level of mk-4?

Going on from my first question; What sort of dosage do I need to visibly influence bone growth with this product? I've heard it's anywhere from 15-45mg but I'm not exactly sure when it comes to a topical application. I know that you can't really overdose with mk-4 but I'd still like to be efficient with it.

Can I apply d3 & mk-4 at the same time?

Would you recommend doing it before bed?

Do I need to consume a fat like coconut oil before using it? I doubt it.

How long does it take to get results on full dose?

Any other advice for a newbie would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Human studies showed that even 0.9mg MK-4 daily was enough to see increased biomarkers of bone growth. So, 2-3 drops of Kuinone should be enough to see results. I think it can be combined with any dose D3 but Peat recommends 2,000 IU- 3,000 IU daily. The D3 and K2 can be used together. You can try morning and evening and if it makes you stimulated then I'd use before noon and if it makes you sleepy I'd use after 5pm. With topical application there is no need to consume anything in order to get it absorbed.

 

[baccheion]

More important than the amount is taking it 3x/day (ie, maintain a higher serum level). Even 1 drop 3x/day will have a good effect, but maybe 3 drops 3x/day is even better. Many things work (out) better when vitamin D is above 40-50 ng/mL.

 

[haidut]

More important than the amount is taking it 3x/day. Even 1 drop 3x/day will have a good effect, but maybe 3 drops 3x/day is even better. Many things work (out) better when vitamin D serum levels are above 40-50 ng/mL.

True, thanks for pointing it out. I think this is why all the human studied use 15mg x 3 daily instead of 45mg in a single dose.

 

[Krollic]

Thank you very much, guys. I appreciate it. Where can I find information/discussion on spacing the dosages throughout the day?

 

[haidut]

Thank you very much, guys. I appreciate it. Where can I find information/discussion on spacing the dosages throughout the day?

I don't think there is a specific thread on spacing doses, but human studies used 15mg with each meal (3 meals a day) since about 30g fat per meal is needed for optimal absorption when taken orally.

 

[jb116]

I don't think there is a specific thread on spacing doses, but human studies used 15mg with each meal (3 meals a day) since about 30g fat per meal is needed for optimal absorption when taken orally.

Do you mean 30g is optimal for that dose of K2 or for any dose amount of K2? 30g per meal seems kind of high, for example if somebody was on a low fat diet. I could be wrong though.

 

[haidut]

Do you mean 30g is optimal for that dose of K2 or for any dose amount of K2? 30g per meal seems kind of high, for example if somebody was on a low fat diet. I could be wrong though.

Well, they only tested one dose as a single intake. Yes, 30g with every meal would be high but 3 separate doses of K2 with meals that have less than 30g of fat each is probably still better than 1 big dose in a single meal with 30g of fat. It is not known for sure, those kinds of studies have not been done - i.e. whether one single dose or multiple smaller ones is better. But all the human studies so far used multiple doses.

 

[KyleKingsly]

What exactly is the difference in this vs. Gonadin for androgenic purposes? Would it accurate to say that Gonadin is a more specialized, improved version of Kuinone since it includes a specific component of MK4? @haidut

 

[haidut]

What exactly is the difference in this vs. Gonadin for androgenic purposes? Would it accurate to say that Gonadin is a more specialized, improved version of Kuinone since it includes a specific component of MK4? @haidut

Vitamin K2 (MK-4) has many different functions and probably the only overlap with Gonadin is the increase in androgen synthesis. The studies did not say the side chain of vitamin K is responsible for ALL of its effects, they said it is only likely responsible for the androgen synthesis increase. Vitamin K has a role in osteocalcin synthesis, insulin release, inflammation reduction, electron transfer in the mitochondria, etc which Gonadin does not. So, aside from the effect on androgen synthesis and aromatase inhibition, I don't think there is much overlap between Gonadin and Kuinone.

 

[KyleKingsly]

Thank you very much. Sounds like you're saying that Gonadin is more specialized towards androgen boosting/aromatase inhibiting while Kuinone is more of a general health supplement, which is kind of what I'd expected. I'm much more interested in the former, so I went with Gonadin instead of Kuinone (since I can't really afford both right now).

 

[haidut]

Thank you very much. Sounds like you're saying that Gonadin is more specialized towards androgen boosting/aromatase inhibiting while Kuinone is more of a general health supplement, which is kind of what I'd expected. I'm much more interested in the former, so I went with Gonadin instead of Kuinone (since I can't really afford both right now).

Yes, that sounds about right. OK, keep me posted on how you like the Gonadin.

 

[TreasureVibe]

Can Kuinone with ethanol be taken orally safely?

 

[Tyler2834]

Can Kuinone with ethanol be taken orally safely?

I'm interested to know how others take Kuinone orally... I' tried just putting a couple drops on my tongue and swallowing, but I'm paranoid it doesn't make its way to the liver. I wonder if putting a few drops on a spoon full of coconut oil would be best?


On a side note, I've been topically applying a few drops on the middle of my chest where there was minor acne/bumps and it went away within 3 days. I also noticed my mood, confidence and aggression have all enhanced after using Kuinone for 3-4 days. My energy levels are through the roof but that may have to do with other factors.

 

[baccheion]

I'm interested to know how others take Kuinone orally... I' tried just putting a couple drops on my tongue and swallowing, but I'm paranoid it doesn't make its way to the liver. I wonder if putting a few drops on a spoon full of coconut oil would be best?


On a side note, I've been topically applying a few drops on the middle of my chest where there was minor acne/bumps and it went away within 3 days. I also noticed my mood, confidence and aggression have all enhanced after using Kuinone for 3-4 days. My energy levels are through the roof but that may have to do with other factors.

Are you taking it with vitamin D3 (50-100 IU/kg) and magnesium? Have you considered adding topical pregnenolone + DHEA?

 

[Tyler2834]

Are you taking it with vitamin D3 (50-100 IU/kg) and magnesium? Have you considered adding topical pregnenolone + DHEA?

I purposely avoid all external hormonal supplements. My goal is to reach my desired health and fitness goals by optimizing exercise, nutrition and lifestyle. I do take plenty of supplements including herbal.

I'm going to start a log soon once I get my blood results back.

I can tell you now i'm around 8-10 bf% and my strength incredible since optimizing everything and lowering stress.

Here a couple of pictures. On the left I got really lean but carb backloading and intermittent fasting. On the right I gained 10 pounds in 6 weeks after I found Ray Peat.

 

[baccheion]

I purposely avoid all external hormonal supplements. My goal is to reach my desired health and fitness goals by optimizing exercise, nutrition and lifestyle. I do take plenty of supplements including herbal.

I'm going to start a log soon once I get my blood results back.

I can tell you now i'm around 8-10 bf% and my strength incredible since optimizing everything and lowering stress.

What about magnesium and vitamin D3? Have you considered iodine protocol: r/Nootropics - Garlic?

 

[Tyler2834]

I take magnesium calm, Vitamin D3 (5000 IU) - when I don't get sun, and I do take garlic in a form of a supplement combined with Vitamin C so release nitric oxide which is frowned upon in this form I know.

 

[baccheion]

I take magnesium calm, Vitamin D3 (5000 IU) - when I don't get sun, and I do take garlic in a form of a supplement combined with Vitamin C so release nitric oxide which is frowned upon in this form I know.

Doctor's Best High Absorption Magnesium or a magnesium oil spray may be better. Vitamin D (10 IU D3 : 2 mcg+ MK-4) is fine 5 days/week or whatever keeps serum between 40 and 60 ng/mL. Have you verified (via testing) that sun exposure is enough to keep vitamin D within the desired range?

 

[Tyler2834]

Doctor's Best High Absorption Magnesium or a magnesium oil spray may be better. Vitamin D (10 IU D3 : 2 mcg+ MK-4) is fine 5 days/week or whatever keeps serum between 40 and 60 ng/mL. Have you verified (via testing) that sun exposure is enough to keep vitamin D within the desired range?

This was all I tested (and it was 2 years ago). I'm getting my blood tested again soon.

 

[baccheion]

This was all I tested (and it was 2 years ago). I'm getting my blood tested again soon.

Alright. Also check magnesium (RBC or WBC not serum), vitamin D3 (25-OH-D not the 1,25 test), and iodine.