K2 Dosage Differences

[Jeemmy]

Hello guys, it's been 2 months since I stared taking vitamin k complex (k1 mk4 mk7). Unfortunately I didn't find the single k4 in Italy, but now I see there is Thorne in amazon it so I am thinking about getting it. The thing I'm asking myself is why the dosage is like 15mg, when my old complex was like 0.3mg total Ks. Why so high? I'm taking it because I've always had dental problems, I had like 5 or 6 implants because of cavities.. Now with the complex I'm doing pretty fine.. I have whiter teeth and very few tartarus than before and I brush them like 1 times a week now. Do you think that upping the dose as suggested by Thorne indications could be even more benefical? Like 0 tartarus and 0 blood loss after brushing? With vitamin D and calcium I'm already in the optimal range.

 

[ecstatichamster]

I really didn't get full benefit from K2 until I started higher doses topically. I found MK7 pretty useless. It didn't help me at all. MK4 really helps. Studies in Japan are done with 15 mg up to three times per day. I think a lot of studies are done in Japan because fermented soybean natto was an original source rich in K2.

I would order from vitaspace.com, $16 per gram plus flat fee for shipping. I apply with a little coconut oil or Idealabs mitolipin topically.

the reason I know it helps is that if I take aspirin without it, I get a little bleeding but if I have it I don't get the bleeding.

I found that higher doses really cleared up my tooth problems completely. I had a cleaning recently and it was perfect. I no longer have much sensitivity although I have a little. Much better than it was. And I drink a lot of orange juice which had made it worse for a while.

 

[Jeemmy]

That sounds fantastic! Where do you use it topically for teeth? Do you keep it in your mouth?

 

[ecstatichamster]

no i just put it on my skin, belly usually.

 

[Jeemmy]

Thanks, i will definitely try it! I just ordered Thorne.

 

[chispas]

I really didn't get full benefit from K2 until I started higher doses topically. I found MK7 pretty useless. It didn't help me at all. MK4 really helps. Studies in Japan are done with 15 mg up to three times per day. I think a lot of studies are done in Japan because fermented soybean natto was an original source rich in K2.

I would order from vitaspace.com, $16 per gram plus flat fee for shipping. I apply with a little coconut oil or Idealabs mitolipin topically.

the reason I know it helps is that if I take aspirin without it, I get a little bleeding but if I have it I don't get the bleeding.

I found that higher doses really cleared up my tooth problems completely. I had a cleaning recently and it was perfect. I no longer have much sensitivity although I have a little. Much better than it was. And I drink a lot of orange juice which had made it worse for a while.

Do you get bleeding gums? Or bleeding nose, or other?

How much K2 per day to you take? Have you tried idealabs kuinone?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Do you get bleeding gums? Or bleeding nose, or other?

How much K2 per day to you take? Have you tried idealabs kuinone?

Rectal bleeding.

I use 15mg or so every day. I buy from Peter at Vitaspace.com.

 

[Mossy]

Has anyone gotten joint and/or bone pain from K2 supplementation? This pain seems to be the worst when I'm taking all the anti-estrogen supps, so I've had to stop taking most continually. Currently, I'm back on only the K2, but I still have some pain; and, I feel that I've injured myself by working out when I was taking the combination of all anti-estrogen supps. The injury is to my right elbow area, which was never a problem prior to these supps. It seems the dryness and or lack of lubrication (if this is even accurate), made me susceptible to injury.

 

[Palpatine]

Has anyone gotten joint and/or bone pain from K2 supplementation? This pain seems to be the worst when I'm taking all the anti-estrogen supps, so I've had to stop taking most continually. Currently, I'm back on only the K2, but I still have some pain; and, I feel that I've injured myself by working out when I was taking the combination of all anti-estrogen supps. The injury is to my right elbow area, which was never a problem prior to these supps. It seems the dryness and or lack of lubrication (if this is even accurate), made me susceptible to injury.

I thought K2 was supposed to help with joint pain. No?
I've been taking 15mg of Thorne's for the last 3-4 weeks and was about to increase to 30mg cause it doesn't feel like it's helped my pain... maybe even made it worse like you @Mossy
Also taking zinc about 25-30 mg a day, 400-600 mg magnesium... and 10mg DHEA per day.

Last blood test I had low estradiol as well... was actually thinking of upping my DHEA dose to raise it a bit... hopefully

 

[ecstatichamster]

I don't think it helps joint pain per se...it helps bone rebuild and it sucks calcium out of fibrotic tissue...it helps teeth and bones.

 

[Palpatine]

I don't think it helps joint pain per se...it helps bone rebuild and it sucks calcium out of fibrotic tissue...it helps teeth and bones.

Thanks for the reply. I actually think that's where I have my pain is in the tissue radiating around my right shoulder... from the top front pec all the way to my shoulder and around to my tight scapula on the right side.

 

[Mossy]

I don't think it helps joint pain per se...it helps bone rebuild and it sucks calcium out of fibrotic tissue...it helps teeth and bones.

Maybe it's this rebuilding and manipulating/moving of calcium that is causing the pain. Honestly, I feel like it hurts my teeth as well. On another thread, I posted how after starting K2 and D, a piece of my front tooth chipped away. Now, of course, there is no way I can for certain say it was the K2; but, the K2 does cause me joint/bone pain, and it does cause visible loose build up on my teeth, that I can scrape away. I saw that another poster had this problem as well, with the build up on the teeth. I'm not certain what it is: tartar, plaque, calcium? Granted, it may be helping the bones, but painful in the process, and caution may be needed for those like me and @Palpatine.

Maybe there is something to this larger dose thing, where it may allow for a more even distribution and thorough building of the bones. I'm not certain if that would equate to more pain, but I do know that the dose size does tend to correlate to the amount of pain I have. The largest dose I've taken orally is 3 mg, and I started with 200mcg.

P.S. Maybe I'll try it topically.

 

[ecstatichamster]

@Mossy are you taking E and A?

 

[Mossy]

@Mossy are you taking E and A?

I was, daily, along with K, D, white willow bark, niacinamide, and some other B vitamins. I would take the K, D, A, and Bs in the AM, and E along with additional niacinamide before bed. I feel the A amplified the dryness and bone pain, and overall I didn't feel well when taking it. I'm only getting A via food now, with once-a-week liver being the major source. I do plan on working E back in, at bed time.

So, the simple answer to your question is that I'm currently not supplementing with E and A. Seven days ago was my last dose of each: E was 60mg of Tocovit, and A was 12,500 IU of palmitate (Bio-Ae-Mulsion Forte).

 

[Pointless]

I've had problems with side effects from fat solubles, not just joint pain but nausea, irritability, possibly other things are related to this, but a teaspoon of eggshell powder really helped. Within an hour, it was a huge difference. Also, if I drink a ton of milk, like a gallon, it helps. But with all this calcium moving into your bones, you will probably need a really high calcium:phosphate ratio, at least for a while.

I am still testing, but it is worth a shot.

 

[Lucenzo01]

I was, daily, along with K, D, white willow bark, niacinamide, and some other B vitamins. I would take the K, D, A, and Bs in the AM, and E along with additional niacinamide before bed. I feel the A amplified the dryness and bone pain, and overall I didn't feel well when taking it. I'm only getting A via food now, with once-a-week liver being the major source. I do plan on working E back in, at bed time.

So, the simple answer to your question is that I'm currently not supplementing with E and A. Seven days ago was my last dose of each: E was 60mg of Tocovit, and A was 12,500 IU of palmitate (Bio-Ae-Mulsion Forte).

It could be a taurine deficiency. Taurine it's used to "activate" the fat-solubles.

 

[Mossy]

It could be a taurine deficiency. Taurine it's used to "activate" the fat-solubles.

That's a good thought, but I would have to guess that I'm good on taurine. I was taking taurine for about six weeks, and am now off it for several months, per Haidut's commment: "after 1 month of taurine intake the benefits reach a plateau and you can discontinue use. The endogenous taurine levels after a month of loading do not decrease until 2-3 months after discontinuation.". The thread is here.

Good thought, though -- I had forgotten how taurine does help to facilitate fat-solubles. Thanks.

 

[Mossy]

I've had problems with side effects from fat solubles, not just joint pain but nausea, irritability, possibly other things are related to this, but a teaspoon of eggshell powder really helped. Within an hour, it was a huge difference. Also, if I drink a ton of milk, like a gallon, it helps. But with all this calcium moving into your bones, you will probably need a really high calcium:phosphate ratio, at least for a while.

I am still testing, but it is worth a shot.

Interesting. For a while there I was keeping a close watch on that ratio, but stopped looking once I realized most days I was clearly higher in calcium.

I would imagine you make your own eggshell powder. I make so much stuff at home, I have no more room for another DIY. Maybe I'll increase milk consumption, and other calcium foods.

 

[Lucenzo01]

That's a good thought, but I would have to guess that I'm good on taurine. I was taking taurine for about six weeks, and am now off it for several months, per Haidut's commment: "after 1 month of taurine intake the benefits reach a plateau and you can discontinue use. The endogenous taurine levels after a month of loading do not decrease until 2-3 months after discontinuation.". The thread is here.

Good thought, though -- I had forgotten how taurine does help to facilitate fat-solubles. Thanks.

There are in this forum some reports of people alleviating different kinds of pain with taurine.

It's highly individual. Fungal overgrowth can deplete taurine completely. Fungal species release high amounts of beta alanine which use the same transport of taurine. If you have taken antibiotics a fungal overgrowth it's not far fetched.

 

[Mossy]

There are in this forum some reports of people alleviating different kinds of pain with taurine.

It's highly individual. Fungal overgrowth can deplete taurine completely. Fungal species release high amounts of beta alanine which use the same transport of taurine. If you have taken antibiotics a fungal overgrowth it's not far fetched.

I haven't taken antibiotics, but maybe it's worth trying taurine again, to see if that helps to alleviate the pain.