Jordan Peterson - The Carnivore Diet Changed My Life!

[Sheik]

Very interesting.

 

[fujija]

Literally just finished listening to this podcast. I can’t remeber who wrote it here, but someone on this forum was saying something similar to this, essentially eating just cola and meat for a week to avoid anything that could increase endotoxin.

Can anyone weigh in on why Jordan Peterson’s diet could be working so well for him? I just assumed better gut function due to no irritating foods?

 

[fujija]

Also his hair is remarkably better than in his videos from a couple of years ago.

 

[Soren]

Very interesting. I think that there is possibly a bit of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Sounds like he's living off stress hormones a bit. Stress hormones have a very powerful ability to cover up issues. High levels of cortisol makes you wake up easily.

Sounds like he's been through hell and that's it working for him though.

I wonder if he has ever tried to add something like white sugar into his diet along with this meat diet.

 

[dbh25]

He mentioned reintroducing foods to see how he feels, starting with mushrooms. Seems like a good way to isolate problem foods.

 

[Arnold Grape]

A lot of people who eat this way end up on this forum with serious health problems, down the line.

 

[rawmeat]

Also his hair is remarkably better than in his videos from a couple of years ago.

he had a hair transplant. It's pretty crazy how even the strongest minds feel incapacitated by hair loss.

 

[Arnold Grape]

Have you ever read The Wind-up Bird Chronicle?

 

[ecstatichamster]

Have you ever read The Wind-up Bird Chronicle?

Yes. So?

 

[Arnold Grape]

I was replying to @rawmeat, but that novel offers a good dialogue about man and his mortality in reference to hair loss. One character works in a wig factory.

 

[Regina]

Very interesting. I think that there is possibly a bit of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Sounds like he's living off stress hormones a bit. Stress hormones have a very powerful ability to cover up issues. High levels of cortisol makes you wake up easily.

Sounds like he's been through hell and that's it working for him though.

I wonder if he has ever tried to add something like white sugar into his diet along with this meat diet.

"Stress hormones have a very powerful ability to cover up issues."

 

[CLASH]

My hypothesis on the meat diet is a lack of endotoxemia and bacterial issues in the colon. As far as I understand, for humans meat and fat are almost entirely absorbed and digested in the small intestine leaving nothing for the colon. They also dont seem to encourage much bacterial growth. The saturated fats themselves and thier stimulation of bile acids also seem to be bacteriocidal/ static. Judging by Mr. Petersons health history with depression and periodontitis as well as his daughters health issues it seems that the family has been colonized by pathogenic bacterial species in thier colon. Grains and starches in my experience seem to be the best promoters for bacterial overgrowth (see grain fed cattle for an easy yet not entirely paralell example). By removing fermentable substrate Mr. Peterson has effectively eliminated his endotoxin burden to a large degree I would guess. There are issues to this tho I think, including:
-lack of specific micro nutrients
-lack of needed macros i.e. sugar
-it doesnt solve the issue in his colon, just holds it a bay by avoidint fermentation altogether
-perhaps too much of certain other nutrients

The reason I think its so powerfully effective is because I think the 2 biggest problems people have with health are due to endotoxin and PUFA. I think these are probably the main drivers of disease. The next factors would be nutrient deficiencies, toxic exposure to chemicals (plant and synthetic) and heavy metals, stress and trauma. (I would say infection falls under endotoxin, I think most infections are easily avoided if endotoxin burden is low).

 

[sunraiser]

Autoimmune or inflammatory reactions are from certain proteins getting into the bloodstream right? He's basically just avoiding any offensive proteins as meat doesn't seem to cause this issue.
(when you have poor mucosal barrier, that is.. Possibly caused by poor Vit K A D, zinc, weak digestion, loads of culprits here)

It takes a lot of energy to digest all that meat and the protein glucose conversion process has some unpleasant byproducts I think, so it's far from ideal. I'm not well i formed in this area though.

Basically autoimmune inflammation tanks your thyroid as a protective metabolic response, worsening your digestion and possibly promoting more endotoxin from certain carbs.

He's found symptomatic relief but not healing in my opinion. Dogmatic diets like these always lead you down a dark path because it puts you in the mindset of foods being the enemy, when really it's an overall lifestyle challenge.

I don't think unadulterated whole foods should be feared, but the idea that your transient state of health might mean you can tolerate less carbs while healing, for example is much healthier.

If it's unprocessed, good tasting and well salivated then it's not the food, it's your current state.

 

[Motif]

My hypothesis on the meat diet is a lack of endotoxemia and bacterial issues in the colon. As far as I understand, for humans meat and fat are almost entirely absorbed and digested in the small intestine leaving nothing for the colon. They also dont seem to encourage much bacterial growth. The saturated fats themselves and thier stimulation of bile acids also seem to be bacteriocidal/ static. Judging by Mr. Petersons health history with depression and periodontitis as well as his daughters health issues it seems that the family has been colonized by pathogenic bacterial species in thier colon. Grains and starches in my experience seem to be the best promoters for bacterial overgrowth (see grain fed cattle for an easy yet not entirely paralell example). By removing fermentable substrate Mr. Peterson has effectively eliminated his endotoxin burden to a large degree I would guess. There are issues to this tho I think, including:
-lack of specific micro nutrients
-lack of needed macros i.e. sugar
-it doesnt solve the issue in his colon, just holds it a bay by avoidint fermentation altogether
-perhaps too much of certain other nutrients

The reason I think its so powerfully effective is because I think the 2 biggest problems people have with health are due to endotoxin and PUFA. I think these are probably the main drivers of disease. The next factors would be nutrient deficiencies, toxic exposure to chemicals (plant and synthetic) and heavy metals, stress and trauma. (I would say infection falls under endotoxin, I think most infections are easily avoided if endotoxin burden is low).

So what would you suggest to do?

 

[CLASH]

@Motif
In theory change the colonic microbiota. I’ve been playing around with it myself for awhile now. Here are some options/ possible plan (i have tried all these things yet not so neatly and together):

-using biofilm degraders/ inhibitors

-nystatin + rifaximin to clean out the small intestine (doesnt effect the colon but helps with SIBO/ SIFO)

-bacteriophages (i ordered these from russia after pestering an alternative Dr. for a script and arranging the neccesary documentation to get them through customs) for the pathogenic species after getting a stool test (i wouldnt use antibiotics, they made things worse for me, peat seems to like them tho and to be fair I didnt use them the exact way he recommends)

-essentially re-breastfeed yourself using raw goats milk and raw goat kefir for a period of time

-once finishing the milk cure (if you do try it) create a diet that supplies bacteria that can ferment the food you eat and also a diet that is sound in terms of macros, micros and lack of toxicity. This leaves you with for simplicities sake: specific fruit, specific veggies (most cooked, some not; depends), meat/ organs, specific seafood, beef tallow, coconut oil (be careful with this), cocobutter and maybe dairy if it doesnt effect you negatively and maybe specific starches if they dont effect you negatively. I’d also include some small servings of fermented veggies and/or dairy if your eating dairy. This will provide bacteria that are most likely less pathogenic (we are choosing the least worst option here since we can’t be sterile, especially the colon) than the ones your dealing with if you have a dysbiosis and it will provide prebiotic for those bacteria allowing them to outcompete and pick up residence in the colon (I am well aware this is not in line with peat’s thinking). I tried many variations of dietary approaches using peats principles and currently this has worked the best for me. Something to keep in mind is that introducing foods like fruits and veggies may cause symptoms at first, I would introduce them one at a time/one per week to see the symptoms and if they last. Sometimes the symptoms appear only when you first start and then they go away. Sometimes they persist, if they persist I’d stop that food. I think the liver and bacteria have to adjust to the new plant compounds so it takes a while to reach homeostasis. Also I’d start with fruits that have 1:1 ratios of glucose to fructose and that lack fodmaps/ starch to start.

 

[Motif]

O

@Motif
In theory change the colonic microbiota. I’ve been playing around with it myself for awhile now. Here are some options/ possible plan (i have tried all these things yet not so neatly and together):

-using biofilm degraders/ inhibitors

-nystatin + rifaximin to clean out the small intestine (doesnt effect the colon but helps with SIBO/ SIFO)

-bacteriophages (i ordered these from russia after pestering an alternative Dr. for a script and arranging the neccesary documentation to get them through customs) for the pathogenic species after getting a stool test (i wouldnt use antibiotics, they made things worse for me, peat seems to like them tho and to be fair I didnt use them the exact way he recommends)

-essentially re-breastfeed yourself using raw goats milk and raw goat kefir for a period of time

-once finishing the milk cure (if you do try it) create a diet that supplies bacteria that can ferment the food you eat and also a diet that is sound in terms of macros, micros and lack of toxicity. This leaves you with for simplicities sake: specific fruit, specific veggies (most cooked, some not; depends), meat/ organs, specific seafood, beef tallow, coconut oil (be careful with this), cocobutter and maybe dairy if it doesnt effect you negatively and maybe specific starches if they dont effect you negatively. I’d also include some small servings of fermented veggies and/or dairy if your eating dairy. This will provide bacteria that are most likely less pathogenic (we are choosing the least worst option here since we can’t be sterile, especially the colon) than the ones your dealing with if you have a dysbiosis and it will provide prebiotic for those bacteria allowing them to outcompete and pick up residence in the colon (I am well aware this is not in line with peat’s thinking). I tried many variations of dietary approaches using peats principles and currently this has worked the best for me. Something to keep in mind is that introducing foods like fruits and veggies may cause symptoms at first, I would introduce them one at a time/one per week to see the symptoms and if they last. Sometimes the symptoms appear only when you first start and then they go away. Sometimes they persist, if they persist I’d stop that food. I think the liver and bacteria have to adjust to the new plant compounds so it takes a while to reach homeostasis. Also I’d start with fruits that have 1:1 ratios of glucose to fructose and that lack fodmaps/ starch to start.

I hope this works for you! I tried CDL, Oregano oil, Rizol, flagyl, Rifaximin.

Also some probiotics.

I think after the CDL my yellow coated tongue was gone, which I had for over ten years. But no other improvements from all that

 

[oldmanthunder]

https://raypeatforum.com/community/...tamins-alone-in-nutritional-deficiency.23657/
In this thread, it is mentioned that demand for certain micronutrients (specifically B vitamins which are essential for carbohydrate metabolism) goes up when carbohydrate intake goes up. Could it be that a reason so many people seem to be doing well on these carnivore diets is by eating lots of meat, which is rich in B vitamins, while restricting carbs, thereby quickly correcting B vitamin deficiencies?

 

[sunraiser]

@Motif
In theory change the colonic microbiota. I’ve been playing around with it myself for awhile now. Here are some options/ possible plan (i have tried all these things yet not so neatly and together):

-using biofilm degraders/ inhibitors

-nystatin + rifaximin to clean out the small intestine (doesnt effect the colon but helps with SIBO/ SIFO)

-bacteriophages (i ordered these from russia after pestering an alternative Dr. for a script and arranging the neccesary documentation to get them through customs) for the pathogenic species after getting a stool test (i wouldnt use antibiotics, they made things worse for me, peat seems to like them tho and to be fair I didnt use them the exact way he recommends)

-essentially re-breastfeed yourself using raw goats milk and raw goat kefir for a period of time

-once finishing the milk cure (if you do try it) create a diet that supplies bacteria that can ferment the food you eat and also a diet that is sound in terms of macros, micros and lack of toxicity. This leaves you with for simplicities sake: specific fruit, specific veggies (most cooked, some not; depends), meat/ organs, specific seafood, beef tallow, coconut oil (be careful with this), cocobutter and maybe dairy if it doesnt effect you negatively and maybe specific starches if they dont effect you negatively. I’d also include some small servings of fermented veggies and/or dairy if your eating dairy. This will provide bacteria that are most likely less pathogenic (we are choosing the least worst option here since we can’t be sterile, especially the colon) than the ones your dealing with if you have a dysbiosis and it will provide prebiotic for those bacteria allowing them to outcompete and pick up residence in the colon (I am well aware this is not in line with peat’s thinking). I tried many variations of dietary approaches using peats principles and currently this has worked the best for me. Something to keep in mind is that introducing foods like fruits and veggies may cause symptoms at first, I would introduce them one at a time/one per week to see the symptoms and if they last. Sometimes the symptoms appear only when you first start and then they go away. Sometimes they persist, if they persist I’d stop that food. I think the liver and bacteria have to adjust to the new plant compounds so it takes a while to reach homeostasis. Also I’d start with fruits that have 1:1 ratios of glucose to fructose and that lack fodmaps/ starch to start.

I think you're over complicating it. Restoring bile acid production (namely via natural taurine production) will cure any dysbiosis. Having a proliferation of candida (or sibo) naturally tanks your B6. I can't remember why but I think it's waste byproducts from the candida.

For whatever reason restoring vitamin D status stops the high taurine need. Perhaps due to alkaline environment in the body. That means restoring vitamin A and K status alongside D (no supps ideally), alongside some form of regular exercise to protect the liver from lymph congestion.

Raw dairy is a good suggestion as calcium needs will be quite high to restore vit D status and pasterised dairy will be inflammatory in this state.

Here is a post by haidut ..

It may be a bit of chicken and egg problem. I posted a study on the forum showing taurine supplementation became unnecessary after vitamin D levels were elevated above 40. So, the body somehow replenished itself of taurine once vitamin D levels were brought into the good range. But yes, taurine helps absorption of all fat-soluble vitamins.
https://raypeatforum.com/community/...ces-bioavailability-of-vitamins-k-a-d-e.7271/

I believe having robust vit d status (and therefore excellent calcium and magnesiun status) allows the more alkaline environment in the body to spare the excessive taurine need as the candida dies.

 

[Waynish]

He's right but who wouldn't want to be able to fix this sugar metabolism if they knew how :)

 

[Blossom]

This woman eats a carnivore diet with cane sugar and credits the sugar with restoring her emotions.
The Carnivore’s Dilemma – A Diet of Just Meats and Fats? | The Primal Parent