John McDougall Diet? (starch Solution)

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Something I disagree with is that sugar/fructose is a benign substance that won't lead to dysbiosis or overgrowth.

Exactly. "Thyroid hormone increases digestive activity, including stomach acid and peristalsis, and both thyroid and progesterone increase the ability of the intestine to absorb sugars quickly; their deficiency can permit bacteria to live on sugars as well as starches.”
 

nbznj

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Why can't we all be friends and be fine with a diet that includes:

- all amino acids, which means low to no fat dairy, seafood, organ meat, maybe a rotisserie chicken for the tastebuds
- fruit juices when the body isn't prime for solid food (upon waking up, peri workout, before bed)
- low fat non-cow (or grass fed cow) milk, see point above
- rice, oats, buckwheat, insert other grain very low in gluten
- fats could be coconut, cocoa, avocado, (salted) butter, olive oil. The last 2 would be even better with garlic easily found in stores

- minimal supplementation ala ZMA, ADEK.

those collagen supplements are very interesting, considering I've ditched all "bro" protein powders.

I think overthinking whole foods that have been around for centuries leads to negative stress and orthorexia
 
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Reaper242xx

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Why can't we all be friends and be fine with a diet that includes:

- all amino acids, which means low to no fat dairy, seafood, organ meat, maybe a rotisserie chicken for the tastebuds
- fruit juices when the body isn't prime for solid food (upon waking up, peri workout, before bed)
- low fat non-cow (or grass fed cow) milk, see point above
- rice, oats, buckwheat, insert other grain very low in gluten
- fats could be coconut, cocoa, avocado, (salted) butter, olive oil. The last 2 would be even better with garlic easily found in stores

- minimal supplementation ala ZMA, ADEK.

those collagen supplements are very interesting, considering I've ditched all "bro" protein powders.

I think overthinking whole foods that have been around for centuries leads to negative stress and orthorexia
This is a pretty good high quality protein powder. I'm a bodybuilder so this comes in useful when getting enough protein throughout the day. It's much higher in collagen then most other proteins, except for gelatin/collagen itself. I add it to a quart of skimmed raw milk and drink twice a day.
 

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nbznj

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bodybuilder here too, although I get to 210g a day without thinking much (I've got 190-200lbs of LBM so that's fine IMO)

I'll definitely try this protein as an interesting way to bring some balance tho, thank you for the recommendation.
 
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Reaper242xx

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bodybuilder here too, although I get to 210g a day without thinking much (I've got 190-200lbs of LBM so that's fine IMO)

I'll definitely try this protein as an interesting way to bring some balance tho, thank you for the recommendation.
Yeah you sound like you're at a solid spot. I've been pleased with the product thus far, it allows me to eat a little less muscle meat which Peat is always saying we shouldn't have, at least in high quantities.
 

jyb

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What the heck do you no starch-folks eat?? I don't have the money for liters of quality juice a day, and even if I did I sure as heck don't crave it that much. I'd want to eat something like cooked beets, turnips, carrots and other low starch high sugar veggies much more than just juice/fruit but one would have to eat loads to get enough calories. It seems like we were made to eat starch.

Reminds me the olds days of the RPF discussing strategies to get those 2L+ orange juice per day, all filtered and fresh and etc. If that's your aim, it's doable.
 

jyb

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Count me among those who failed on a high sugar (primarily fruit), low starch diet. Several attempts caused headaches, hyperglycemia, and a lack of energy.

That what my conclusion a year into that. A lot of people were doing that in the early years of RPF.
 
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Westside, what are your thoughts on starches like whole oats, whole rice etc?

I like Scottish oats. I like CA grown brown rice. I soak all grains and legumes (expect white rice because it's just the starch) for at least 24 hours in distilled water with some ACV to remove phytic acid/other anti-nutrients and optimize maximal absorption. I think when they hit that first sprouted phase they are the best. I'm not concerned with the poofa in any of them because they are all very low fat. The fat in oats is likely not absorbed and instead used as a part of the gelatinous layer for the microflora that happens when you eat high starch low fat consistently for a long time, creating a slide-like GI tract that keeps things moving through easily. I no longer get gas from any grains/legumes.
 
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jitsmonkey

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Jul 8, 2015
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Why can't we all be friends and be fine with a diet that includes:

- all amino acids, which means low to no fat dairy, seafood, organ meat, maybe a rotisserie chicken for the tastebuds
- fruit juices when the body isn't prime for solid food (upon waking up, peri workout, before bed)
- low fat non-cow (or grass fed cow) milk, see point above
- rice, oats, buckwheat, insert other grain very low in gluten
- fats could be coconut, cocoa, avocado, (salted) butter, olive oil. The last 2 would be even better with garlic easily found in stores

- minimal supplementation ala ZMA, ADEK.

those collagen supplements are very interesting, considering I've ditched all "bro" protein powders.

I think overthinking whole foods that have been around for centuries leads to negative stress and orthorexia



Better question would be....

Why can't we all just disagree?
 

tara

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My point in the earlier post was for those who continue to have health issues, especially related to digestion, it's hard to justify eating starch when Ray warns against it, and yet so many people just seem resigned to keep it as a part of their diet.
Not that there is a need to justify it, but if one wanted to, I don't see what would be hard about justifying eating starchy food over either under-eating to one's detriment, or over-eating food that makes one personally feel and function worse. I'm not resigned to it; I find it more satisfying. I'm glad I didn't resign myself to the alternative, though.

Then there's no harm in them removing it for a short period (30 days) to see if their health improves.:D
If it worked for you, great.
I'm not sure whether you have not read all the contrary empirical reports from members, or whether you are just dismissing them all.
However, during that time, I never said that ______ doesn't work for me, but instead assumed that I was missing a key piece of info, which so far has been true in every case (the devil is in the dose).
Good for you. That doesn't prove that the same would be the case for everyone else, though.

I do think that if a person has access to sufficient healthy food and can't go 30 days without starch, then there is a larger health issue at play which probably needs to be addressed instead of the starch.:bookworm:
Of course many of us have larger health issues at play. That's why it is particularly important not to add unnecessary stress to an already unbalanced system by throwing stuff at it that it can't handle at that time for whatever reason.

Why can't we all be friends and be fine with a diet that includes:
I have opinions about diet, but being friends doesn't require agreement about or similarity in diet. (It probably does require not dismissing each others experiences, though.)
Why can't we all just disagree?
:)
 

theLaw

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Not that there is a need to justify it, but if one wanted to, I don't see what would be hard about justifying eating starchy food over either under-eating to one's detriment, or over-eating food that makes one personally feel and function worse. I'm not resigned to it; I find it more satisfying. I'm glad I didn't resign myself to the alternative, though.

Yes eating starch can be better or worse than certain dietary decisions, but that has nothing to do with my statement. I was referring to those who continue to have health-issues, but refuse to eliminate starch after trying many other protocols, for which the resignation to including starch (for a short time until they see an improvement) would be detrimental.

If it worked for you, great.
I'm not sure whether you have not read all the contrary empirical reports from members, or whether you are just dismissing them all.

Not sure what reports you are referring to here, but yes, I'm dismissing people who refuse to remove starch after many other protocols have failed (for years in many cases). Can't help people who refuse to help themselves.


Good for you. That doesn't prove that the same would be the case for everyone else, though.

Never said it that it was the case for everyone else.

Of course many of us have larger health issues at play. That's why it is particularly important not to add unnecessary stress to an already unbalanced system by throwing stuff at it that it can't handle at that time for whatever reason.

And there are also members who refuse to take the next step in improving their health, particularly one that Peat has mentioned explicitly (can't find another instance in his writing where he says "zero" in regards to a food to improve health)

I have opinions about diet, but being friends doesn't require agreement about or similarity in diet. (It probably does require not dismissing each others experiences, though.)

:)

Cheers!:D
 

Wagner83

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Oct 15, 2016
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The only way to know for sure would be through rigorous lab testing, but most here don't have those done, so it's largely a guessing game.

I too had issues with Dairy and even OJ when I first started, along with a host of other issues from under-eating, but I resolved them over two years of constant testing using info from these boards. I can currently drink 1/2 gallon of both OJ and milk each day without issues.

However, during that time, I never said that ______ doesn't work for me, but instead assumed that I was missing a key piece of info, which so far has been true in every case (the devil is in the dose).

I do think that if a person has access to sufficient healthy food and can't go 30 days without starch, then there is a larger health issue at play which probably needs to be addressed instead of the starch.:bookworm:

***It should also be noted that I supplement with thyroid and caffeine, so not sure how I would deal with large amounts of liquids without them***
When I had health issues I went to the ER and did pretty thorough testing, bilirubin and an other thing were just a bit high but I had not drunk nor eaten for 18 hours + . As I said, issues resolved by removing fructose and milk and reintroducing starch.
What benefits do you notice from not eating starch? Do you mostly get problems with starch and avoid them without?
About the no-starch thing showing health problems, maybe but as the poster before you said the same could be said about feeling like crap with starch.
 

theLaw

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When I had health issues I went to the ER and did pretty thorough testing, bilirubin and an other thing were just a bit high but I had not drunk nor eaten for 18 hours + . As I said, issues resolved by removing fructose and milk and reintroducing starch.

What benefits do you notice from not eating starch? Do you mostly get problems with starch and avoid them without?

About the no-starch thing showing health problems, maybe but as the poster before you said the same could be said about feeling like crap with starch (despite thyroid and caffeine).

Personally, I now only limit starch in my diet, but have had to remove it for short periods in the past to resolve digestive issues.

I think that starch is basically a very dense source of carbs, and most here with health issues are essentially starving themselves (easier to do than it sounds).

The push-back that I see for little-to-zero starch is similar to the push-back about higher calories.
 
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I like Scottish oats. I like CA grown brown rice. I soak all grains and legumes (expect white rice because it's just the starch) for at least 24 hours in distilled water with some ACV to remove phytic acid/other anti-nutrients and optimize maximal absorption. I think when they hit that first sprouted phase they are the best. I'm not concerned with the poofa in any of them because they are all very low fat. The fat in oats is likely not absorbed and instead used as a part of the gelatinous layer for the microflora that happens when you eat high starch low fat consistently for a long time, creating a slide-like GI tract that keeps things moving through easily. I no longer get gas from any grains/legumes.
ACV?
 

Ritchie

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I like Scottish oats. I like CA grown brown rice. I soak all grains and legumes (expect white rice because it's just the starch) for at least 24 hours in distilled water with some ACV to remove phytic acid/other anti-nutrients and optimize maximal absorption. I think when they hit that first sprouted phase they are the best. I'm not concerned with the poofa in any of them because they are all very low fat. The fat in oats is likely not absorbed and instead used as a part of the gelatinous layer for the microflora that happens when you eat high starch low fat consistently for a long time, creating a slide-like GI tract that keeps things moving through easily. I no longer get gas from any grains/legumes.
After you soak your grains and legumes, do you then cook them in the water they were soaked in or do you drain and rinse them off before cooking?
 
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I find whole grains and legumes quite toxic. I enjoy some iron free Sourdough white flour bread and it doesn’t seem to cause any problems. Oats and corn in any quantity are a huge problem.

Potatoes in moderation are fine. So is white but not brown rice. I suspect white rice is pretty benign for most people.
 
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@Westside PUFAs Apple cider vinegar! Do you rinse the grains before cooking to get rid of the acidic taste?

There's no acidic taste but I would rinse them if I needed to.

What are your reasons for eating legumes?

They are extremely nutritious. All of the evidence points towards them being a longevity promoting food. The protein in them is "new" and fresh in it's seed form as opposed to recycled animal protein. They are not all equal. The three types of lentils are good and most beans like black, pinto, navy, red, white, great northern, mung, adzuki etc. Peas aren't that great and obviously soy is a legume but it's in a different category. Cacao is a legume too but it's also different from lentils and beans. When I say legumes, I'm talking about lentils and certain beans.

After you soak your grains and legumes, do you then cook them in the water they were soaked in or do you drain and rinse them off before cooking?

Drain.
 
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