Is Betaine HCL A Safe Supplement?

[Queequeg]

I wanted to run a theory by you guys and get your sense of it. I typically take Betaine HCL (TMG) for digestion but was a bit concerned after @haidut said that it raises methionine and not a good idea. After looking into it I found that it does increase it but does so by converting homocystene to methionine. Since homocystene is much more toxic than methionine, maybe the increase in methionine is still a step in the right direction. Similarly maybe excess methionine is bad because it shifts the reaction back to more homocystene.

So my question is whether or not Betaine HCL is a good thing to take. Does this make sense?

 

[PeatInspired]

I wanted to run a theory by you guys and get your sense of it. I typically take Betaine HCL (TMG) for digestion but was a bit concerned after @haidut said that it raises methionine and not a good idea. After looking into it I found that it does increase it but does so by converting homocystene to methionine. Since homocystene is much more toxic than methionine, maybe the increase in methionine is still a step in the right direction. Similarly maybe excess methionine is bad because it shifts the reaction back to more homocystene.

So my question is whether or not Betaine HCL is a good thing to take. Does this make sense?

I don't know- but I'm also curious! I have acid reflux from time to time and it seems to help more than most things....

 

[NathanK]

I think it really depends on your situation and if you gain relief from it like many who take it do. In principle, I don't think Ray would be a fan because it is a methyl donor. I recall Tan Ye Wei posting that he takes ~2g/day.

I agree that methionine is prob better than Hcy. It is always better to do your own research into why or how things attain certain results. I recall posting a study in 2015 showing taurine lowering Hcy by blocking transport of methionine. P5P lowers it as well. These are all interconnected and shouldn't just be looked at in isolation. Each could hold the clue to your own "why" through proper self testing. Good luck!

 

[haidut]

I wanted to run a theory by you guys and get your sense of it. I typically take Betaine HCL (TMG) for digestion but was a bit concerned after @haidut said that it raises methionine and not a good idea. After looking into it I found that it does increase it but does so by converting homocystene to methionine. Since homocystene is much more toxic than methionine, maybe the increase in methionine is still a step in the right direction. Similarly maybe excess methionine is bad because it shifts the reaction back to more homocystene.

So my question is whether or not Betaine HCL is a good thing to take. Does this make sense?

A few recent human studies showed high homocystein is simply a symptom of vitamin B6 deficiency. So, you can try a bit of that if the goal is to reduce homocysteine. Glycine can lower both methionine and homocysteine, so that would be another thing to try. Glycine also improves gastric acid production, which is why most people take betaine Hcl. So, glycine could (maybe) safely replace betaine Hcl supplementation altogether.

 

[tankasnowgod]

A few recent human studies showed high homocystein is simply a symptom of vitamin B6 deficiency. So, you can try a bit of that if the goal is to reduce homocysteine. Glycine can lower both methionine and homocysteine, so that would be another thing to try. Glycine also improves gastric acid production, which is why most people take betaine Hcl. So, glycine could (maybe) safely replace betaine Hcl supplementation altogether.

Taurine is another amino acid that can stimulate gastric acids, I think even more so than glycine.

 

[haidut]

Taurine is another amino acid that can stimulate gastric acids, I think even more so than glycine.

Not so much gastric acid, but bile acid synthesis. Glycine can do both, but is better than taurine for gastric acid because it has effect on chloride channels, which taurine does not.

 

[Mastemah]

Not so much gastric acid, but bile acid synthesis. Glycine can do both, but is better than taurine for gastric acid because it has effect on chloride channels, which taurine does not.

How does glycine affect chloride channels? Thanks

 

[haidut]

How does glycine affect chloride channels? Thanks

Google it. I think even the Wikipedia page on glycine talks about that.

 

[johnwester130]

I wanted to run a theory by you guys and get your sense of it. I typically take Betaine HCL (TMG) for digestion but was a bit concerned after @haidut said that it raises methionine and not a good idea. After looking into it I found that it does increase it but does so by converting homocystene to methionine. Since homocystene is much more toxic than methionine, maybe the increase in methionine is still a step in the right direction. Similarly maybe excess methionine is bad because it shifts the reaction back to more homocystene.

So my question is whether or not Betaine HCL is a good thing to take. Does this make sense?

no

DNA Methylation, Aging, And Cancer

 

[Queequeg]

A few recent human studies showed high homocystein is simply a symptom of vitamin B6 deficiency. So, you can try a bit of that if the goal is to reduce homocysteine. Glycine can lower both methionine and homocysteine, so that would be another thing to try. Glycine also improves gastric acid production, which is why most people take betaine Hcl. So, glycine could (maybe) safely replace betaine Hcl supplementation altogether.

I don't really have high homocystene levels but rather low stomach acid. I currently take glycine and still have digestive issues if I forget to take my betaine. Lowering homocystene would just be a bonus of taking betaine. btw would you recommend taking glycine 20 minutes before food to get the HCL going or it doesnt matter.

 

[Queequeg]

I need to study this more but I am not so sure that it is as simple as saying that all instances of increased methylation are bad. For one thing people who have the MTHFR mutation and are low methylators are not as healthy as others and have some serious issues with high homocysteine levels. Likewise studies on reduced methylation diets have resulted in poor health outcomes. It could be the case that certain methylation is bad, others types are good and all are dependent on context.

Also DNA methylation is important to DNA repair and it would make sense that the older you get the more methylation you need. Reducing methylation when you need it most may not be so wise. So it could be a case of correlation and not causation in certain instances.

This article I found posted in another thread talks about the benefits of methylation and dangers of hypo-methylation. The Metabolic Burden of Methyl Donor Deficiency with Focus on the Betaine Homocysteine Methyltransferase Pathway

 

[DrJ]

Bro you gotta get on that glycine. It's done wonders for my digestive problems. And it's cheap :)

 

[haidut]

I don't really have high homocystene levels but rather low stomach acid. I currently take glycine and still have digestive issues if I forget to take my betaine. Lowering homocystene would just be a bonus of taking betaine. btw would you recommend taking glycine 20 minutes before food to get the HCL going or it doesnt matter.

I don't think it matters. The people which reported best results actually used gelatin and it did increase their serum chloride levels, which is an indirect indication of higher stomach acid production.

 

[PeatInspired]

I don't think it matters. The people which reported best results actually used gelatin and it did increase their serum chloride levels, which is an indirect indication of higher stomach acid production.

I take 2-6 tablespoons of collagen hydrolysate a day. Should I try taking more? Or should I try switching to gelatin?

I want acid reflux to go awaaaaaayyyyy!

 

[Queequeg]

Bro you gotta get on that glycine. It's done wonders for my digestive problems. And it's cheap :)

Its done great things for my knees, I take about 4 g a day. It doesn't seem to help with my digestion though.

I don't think it matters. The people which reported best results actually used gelatin and it did increase their serum chloride levels, which is an indirect indication of higher stomach acid production.

thanks. will need to see if I should take more.

I take 2-6 tablespoons of collagen hydrolysate a day. Should I try taking more? Or should I try switching to gelatin?
I want acid reflux to go awaaaaaayyyyy!

Did you ever take proton pump inhibitors. Those things should be illegal. I took then for several months and when I tried to stop I had the worst acid reflux for a couple years after. Betaine HCL has really helped to get rid of it and solve all sorts of digestive problems. I am not happy about any of the potential downsides though.

 

[PeatInspired]

Its done great things for my knees, I take about 4 g a day. It doesn't seem to help with digestion though.

thanks. will need to see if I should take more.

Did you ever take proton pump inhibitors. Those things should be illegal. I took then for several months and when I tried to stop I had the worst acid reflux for a couple years after. Betaine HCL has really helped to get rid of it and solve all sorts of digestive problems. I am not happy about any of the potential downsides though.

Nope, never did take them! I had chronic colds and a chronic cough most of my life, which I think now were largely just reflux messing with my throat and sinuses. I think my cortisol levels exacerbate the reflux. But yeah, when I take fairly large amounts of Betaine HCL I notice some improvement. But if I could get gelatin to work for me, I'd happily quit!

Ray Peat recommended I up the amount of A&D I get by drinking a ton of milk, but it upsets my stomach to drink too much. I take the "thyroyd" brand supplement which helps my milk tolerance, but if I raise my does my heart races too much.

 

[NathanK]

Also DNA methylation is important to DNA repair and it would make sense that the older you get the more methylation you need. Reducing methylation when you need it most may not be so wise. So it could be a case of correlation and not causation in certain instances.

Actually Ray says the increase in methylation is compensatory for lowered CO2 production. Work on CO2 and there's no need for increased methylation

 

[Cheesecake]

Its done great things for my knees, I take about 4 g a day. It doesn't seem to help with my digestion though.

thanks. will need to see if I should take more.

Did you ever take proton pump inhibitors. Those things should be illegal. I took then for several months and when I tried to stop I had the worst acid reflux for a couple years after. Betaine HCL has really helped to get rid of it and solve all sorts of digestive problems. I am not happy about any of the potential downsides though.

Can you please elaborate on the benefits glycine has had on your knees? How were they before and how it's improved them? I've noticed my knees have become a bit "crunchy" and occasionally sore in the last couple of years, despite using GL hydrolysed gelatin So maybe glycine alone has more kick?!

 

[Queequeg]

Can you please elaborate on the benefits glycine has had on your knees? How were they before and how it's improved them? I've noticed my knees have become a bit "crunchy" and occasionally sore in the last couple of years, despite using GL hydrolysed gelatin So maybe glycine alone has more kick?!

I used to play a lot of soccer and messed up my knees. They would hurt from running on pavement or creak when bending and would sometimes hurt for no reason. I was first taking MSM and that cured it but then I heard Ray say that MSM isnt so great. So I then switched to glycine and the pain and creaks have stayed away. So I cant really say glycine cured me, though it might have, but it does seem to help as I stopped the MSM a year ago.

 

[Pet Peeve]

Betaine HCL and TMG are two different things, Betaine HCL is for low stomach acid, TMG is for high homocysteine